Vorsch Posted July 16, 2005 Report Share Posted July 16, 2005 Re: Always On (and Inherent): okay i'm abusing it... that just sets the scene for alot of sfx based powers that are inherent but nobody ever pays the points for it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John T Posted July 16, 2005 Report Share Posted July 16, 2005 Re: Always On (and Inherent): okay i'm abusing it... Alternatively' date=' one could assume that your "standard equipment" is inherent by default (you didn't pay points for it after all, so "what it cost" isn't overly meaningful). You can still Drain Running with the SFX of legs that shrink and eventually disappear, I suppose.[/quote']IIRC, the only "standard equipment" that is naturally Inherent are a character's baseline senses; normal sight, hearing, touch, taste/smell. note: after checking 5e p165, this is implied but not specifically stated. John T Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhilFleischmann Posted July 16, 2005 Report Share Posted July 16, 2005 Re: Always On (and Inherent): okay i'm abusing it... There's a difference between "always on" and "Always On." The first is just a description, while the second in a Power Limitation. A Persistant Power is likely to be always on, but it isn't necessarily Always On. And on the outside chance that anyone is interested in my opinion, I NEVER use Inherent, at least not as a paid-for Advantage. All your powers and stuff are Inherent for free - if it makes sense - or non-Inherent - if it makes sense. And most things are non-Inherent. I've never been able to come up with a concept justification for Inherent that couldn't be reasonably overcome by some other concept withing genre. Do you think your limbs are Inherent? Ask someone who's lost a limb. Do you think your normal senses are Inherent? Ask someone who's lost a sense. I can't think of anything that is *truly* inherent. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikesama Posted July 19, 2005 Report Share Posted July 19, 2005 Re: Always On (and Inherent): okay i'm abusing it... The easiest thing to do really is have all cyberware have an universally applied limitation: Cyberware -1/4 and have all of the related things about cyberware fall under the blanket limitation Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Enforcer84 Posted July 19, 2005 Report Share Posted July 19, 2005 Re: Always On (and Inherent): okay i'm abusing it... Ok, now I'm confused. Because I had thought Inherent was a really expensive way of preventing Drains and Supresses. Now, if I'm reading this right, "Always On" means that no matter the power it is always noticable (visible) no matter what, and you now have to take "Fully Invisible Power" to counteract that. Which is cool, but what happens if someone, for example, buys Energy Blast as Inherent. Does that mean he has the Cyclops syndrome? Always blasting away 24/7? Or do you still have control over the power like any other Energy Blast? Can you add the Invisible Power advantage to counteract the Visible requirement of Always On? Another one, what if a character bought Shapeshift with Inherent, is this person always noticable as having an amorphous form? Or is this Visible restriction only in effect when the Character is actively (though not nessesarily concsiously) changing shape? TB I always thought Inherant meant the "power" was natural to the character. Saturn Girl's mental powers strike me as candidates for inherancy since her whole race has them and I don't think that they would be nullified by "Anti-Mutant or anti-power" drains. Perhaps Psionic scramblers, but not Mutant ones...am I making sense to any of you? I lost me after the second sentance... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fox1 Posted July 20, 2005 Report Share Posted July 20, 2005 Re: Always On (and Inherent): okay i'm abusing it... Do you think your limbs are Inherent? Ask someone who's lost a limb. Requires a kill attack or the like to destroy (or a transform to change). Can't be dispelled or supress by the HERO rules. Do you think your normal senses are Inherent? Ask someone who's lost a sense. HERO includes the point totals of these. As I recall, they don't come inherent. I can't think of anything that is *truly* inherent. Desolid to a ghost. They have no physical form, so a dispell or supress would in effect kill that- HERO does not allow that so a killing attack (or transform to give them a body) would have to be used. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhilFleischmann Posted July 20, 2005 Report Share Posted July 20, 2005 Re: Always On (and Inherent): okay i'm abusing it... Requires a kill attack or the like to destroy (or a transform to change). Can't be dispelled or supress by the HERO rules. Why not? How about a nerve strike or a drug that renders an arm useless. It just hangs there limp by one's side until it wears off. It's only temporary. I'd build it with a Supress (or maybe even a Drain). HERO includes the point totals of these. As I recall, they don't come inherent. Good. Desolid to a ghost. They have no physical form, so a dispell or supress would in effect kill that- HERO does not allow that so a killing attack (or transform to give them a body) would have to be used. I was trying to keep it to real world examples, and I happen to not believe in ghosts. But if I'm modeling a ghost in HERO, I wouldn't make it pay extra for Inherent. It's Inherent by genre convention, or who knows, maybe someone might come up with a SFX/mechanism that would make in-genre sense for the ghost's Desolid to be Drained/Dispelled/Supressed. I can't think of one off hand, but that doesn't mean it can't exist (especially since we're talking about a supernatural phenomenon). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fox1 Posted July 20, 2005 Report Share Posted July 20, 2005 Re: Always On (and Inherent): okay i'm abusing it... Why not? How about a nerve strike or a drug that renders an arm useless. It just hangs there limp by one's side until it wears off. It's only temporary. I'd build it with a Supress (or maybe even a Drain). The already includes rules for nerve strike. And a Supress build isn't needed for drugs as we have Entangle for that. The tendency in 5th edition towards off the wall builds has clouded the issue in this area. Just because an idea of a build occurs, does not mean that it should be selected. I was trying to keep it to real world examples, and I happen to not believe in ghosts. But if I'm modeling a ghost in HERO, I wouldn't make it pay extra for Inherent. You're free to do as you like in the respect. However inherent is there for those of us who want to use it as its intended. I'll make no call for forcing you to use it, if you make not call to remove it from my game. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zornwil Posted July 20, 2005 Report Share Posted July 20, 2005 Re: Always On (and Inherent): okay i'm abusing it... Well, since we're on the subject, I don't like Inherent, personally (I'm not suggesting there's a rules problem here), and instead I just go by SFX. If your "limb-cutter" is a shredder with big razors, sure, arms are as jeopardized as any Extra Limb. If your limb-cutter is a spell that removes "unnatural appendages" (hmmm, I was going to make a lewd joke, but no...) then your arms stay on. Although the latter might be specific enough I'd almost certainly allow a limitation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hugh Neilson Posted July 20, 2005 Report Share Posted July 20, 2005 Re: Always On (and Inherent): okay i'm abusing it... It's Inherent by genre convention' date=' or who knows, maybe someone might come up with a SFX/mechanism that would make in-genre sense for the ghost's Desolid to be Drained/Dispelled/Supressed. I can't think of one off hand, but that doesn't mean it can't exist (especially since we're talking about a supernatural phenomenon).[/quote'] Depends on how one envisions the Desolid working. If you believe ghosts exist only or partially on the Astral Plane, can't we have a spell which wrenches them to the material plane, effectively making them solid? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhilFleischmann Posted July 20, 2005 Report Share Posted July 20, 2005 Re: Always On (and Inherent): okay i'm abusing it... The already includes rules for nerve strike. And a Supress build isn't needed for drugs as we have Entangle for that. "Nerve Strike" does NND damage. It doesn't render a limb temporarily useless. A "nerve strike," OTOH, could. IIRC, the only way to make an Entangle do this, is to add BOECV, Mental Power Based on CON, Affects one limb only, and maybe Wears Off After X Time. To me this seems much more complicated than a Supress. The tendency in 5th edition towards off the wall builds has clouded the issue in this area. Just because an idea of a build occurs, does not mean that it should be selected. Clouded what issue? I'd say the tendency in 5th edition towards off-the-wall builds has inspired greater creativity and flexibility. Just because there's a typical standard build for a particular concept, does not mean it's the only build that should ever be used. You're free to do as you like in the respect. However inherent is there for those of us who want to use it as its intended. I'll make no call for forcing you to use it, if you make not call to remove it from my game. Yes. I certainly haven't made any such call, nor would I. Depends on how one envisions the Desolid working. If you believe ghosts exist only or partially on the Astral Plane' date=' can't we have a spell which wrenches them to the material plane, effectively making them solid?[/quote'] A fine example! Thank you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.