Dr Divago Posted July 14, 2005 Report Share Posted July 14, 2005 Next question, same campaign (do you think i'm spamming? ) I'm building bioware cyberimplant; what are Bioware? bios are modification made by genetical rewrite or genetic-cloned-organic replacement. I think that almost all are inherent, like Skinweave (damage resistnce), radwave (LS to radiation), vacweave (LS to vacuum), tuff bone or muscle bone lace (bonus to CON), Artificial Endo Skeleton (Damage Reduction), and like but for give "inherent" advantage, i must use always on limitation. Always on states that: 1) power become visible 2) power must limit some cases are ok (heavy skinweave are visible and may reduce touch perception; endoskeleton increase weight and more) but in some situation, i must "bend" the limitation: some skinweave are too light to be visible and to give hindrance; some endoskeleton are'nt visible; some LS (like hemological replacement) are internal and not visible nor give sufficent disadvantage In this case, i cannot give Always On, but if i want to give Inherent i must give Always On... so... is "permietted" to reduce Always On (to -¼ or -0 limitation) to mantain possibility to add inherent even if are'nt limitation for an always on power? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roy_The_Ruthles Posted July 14, 2005 Report Share Posted July 14, 2005 Re: Always On (and Inherent): okay i'm abusing it... yes, you may reduce the value of always on if it's not limiting. Example: A character wanted to have Inherint regeneration, so it's always on. I asked how this was a limitation, when would it be "bad" for you to regenerate? Since you don't need to operate on the, it doesn't matter that it's hard to cut them open etc. I think we ended up at -1/4 becuase that made us both happy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roy_The_Ruthles Posted July 14, 2005 Report Share Posted July 14, 2005 Re: Always On (and Inherent): okay i'm abusing it... and no, i don't think you're spamming Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Black Lotus Posted July 14, 2005 Report Share Posted July 14, 2005 Re: Always On (and Inherent): okay i'm abusing it... Yeah, what Roy said. Uh... because i can't come up with anything better without the book with me... ROFL. *shrug* What can I say? And I actually enjoy your frequent threads, Divago. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr Divago Posted July 14, 2005 Author Report Share Posted July 14, 2005 Re: Always On (and Inherent): okay i'm abusing it... and no' date=' i don't think you're spamming [/quote'] And I actually enjoy your frequent threads' date=' Divago.[/quote'] well, most friend of mine call me "a spammer" (in affective way) 'cause i'm a BIG poster... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Black Lotus Posted July 14, 2005 Report Share Posted July 14, 2005 Re: Always On (and Inherent): okay i'm abusing it... well' date=' most friend of mine call me "a spammer" (in affective way) 'cause i'm a BIG poster...[/quote'] Constructive criticism to help improve your English: affective = affectionate. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NuSoardGraphite Posted July 14, 2005 Report Share Posted July 14, 2005 Re: Always On (and Inherent): okay i'm abusing it... I think that almost all are inherent, like Skinweave (damage resistnce), radwave (LS to radiation), vacweave (LS to vacuum), tuff bone or muscle bone lace (bonus to CON), Artificial Endo Skeleton (Damage Reduction), and like but for give "inherent" advantage, i must use always on limitation. Always on states that: 1) power become visible 2) power must limit some cases are ok (heavy skinweave are visible and may reduce touch perception; endoskeleton increase weight and more) but in some situation, i must "bend" the limitation: some skinweave are too light to be visible and to give hindrance; some endoskeleton are'nt visible; some LS (like hemological replacement) are internal and not visible nor give sufficent disadvantage In this case, i cannot give Always On, but if i want to give Inherent i must give Always On... so... is "permietted" to reduce Always On (to -¼ or -0 limitation) to mantain possibility to add inherent even if are'nt limitation for an always on power? Don't worry about it, really. Unless your GM is very anal, its not a big deal. Lets not forget that "visible" doesn't always mean "by sight". The "Visible" limitation means that it must be detectable by around 3 comonly used sense. These can be any of the standard 5 senses (though Taste would be unusual) or any other common sense in the campaign your GM approves for such a limitation, like Radar or Sonar. In the case of a Cyberpunk campaign, there are all kinds of little hand-held sensor devices running around, and no self-respecting cop (or crook) leaves home without one, so I would say Skin Weave could be detectable by Touch, X-ray and by Electromagnetic scanner (or whatever) and you should be good to go. And if your GM isn't cool with this, then simply slap the invisible to sight advantage to the power. That should do the trick. Don't worry so much about the "X can't have Y and must have Z to work" aspect of the advantage and limitation system. Simply build the powers as it makes sense between yourself and your GM. Otherwise you might spend all your time on these message boards arguing with the crotchety old-timers around here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr Divago Posted July 14, 2005 Author Report Share Posted July 14, 2005 Re: Always On (and Inherent): okay i'm abusing it... Constructive criticism to help improve your English: affective = affectionate.Okay you're right... my english is poor... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr Divago Posted July 14, 2005 Author Report Share Posted July 14, 2005 Re: Always On (and Inherent): okay i'm abusing it... Don't worry about it' date=' really. Unless your GM is very anal, its not a big deal.[/quote']Well except for the fact that i'm the GM, it's all ok by the way: Don't worry so much about the "X can't have Y and must have Z to work" aspect of the advantage and limitation system. Simply build the powers as it makes sense between yourself and your GM. Otherwise you might spend all your time on these message boards arguing with the crotchety old-timers around here. ehm ehm... the fact is: its my first time running an Hero campaign; is DIFFICULT found someone who whant play Hero (it's about 4 year that i'm searching to start a little campaign at Hero...) and now i'm starting a campaign only 'cause players want to play Cyberpunk (okay, PC are not forced to play, all agree about "testing" this system, but i feel that are only making a test and are not very interested in playing hero... in "player creation" someone pose question "why we don't play all interlock game instead this more complicated version"?) yep, i'm demoralized... i think this will be an unsuccessfull adventure and this may ruin forever possibility to convince him to play Hero again... btw, NOW i'm wandering off (that's mean "Divago" in my nickname ) and spamming so, back in line with question: can i choose any "limitation" for always on? i mean: in creation time, power will be: Skinweave level 3: Always On (-¼) means that is visible to sight with -4 pen, visible by touch if searching carefully) Skinweave level 4: Always On means that is visible to sight and touch, and limiting touch perception with -1 or -2 Endo Skeleton: Always On means that are presente a weight increase Armorweave: Always On means that are visible and reducing permanently 2 DEX Metaheme Hemological Replacement:Always On (-¼) means that are ore susceptible to poison (50% more effect? 15% more effect? every time is maximum effect?) In other word (my "spamming side effect" are occuring...) i can choose every time a new "side effect" for the always on limitation? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fox1 Posted July 14, 2005 Report Share Posted July 14, 2005 Re: Always On (and Inherent): okay i'm abusing it... i can choose every time a new "side effect" for the always on limitation? Yes. I'm not certain why you're wanting to add inherent to the bioware however. Is there something in your cybepunk world that would attempt to dispell or supress it? Or is it for cross-genre trips? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ura-Maru Posted July 14, 2005 Report Share Posted July 14, 2005 Re: Always On (and Inherent): okay i'm abusing it... Inherent only matters if there are drains or supresses that can affect the power in question. Since you're using the 'restrainable' and 'cyberware' limitations (that already make cyberwear vulnerable to special drains) you might not need to worry about it at all. People arn't going to be running around with all the assorted drains you'd expect in a supers or a fantasy campagin. --- "Must remain . . . in control . . . stop . . . talking in . . . fragments!" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Teflon Billy Posted July 15, 2005 Report Share Posted July 15, 2005 Re: Always On (and Inherent): okay i'm abusing it... Ok, now I'm confused. Because I had thought Inherent was a really expensive way of preventing Drains and Supresses. Now, if I'm reading this right, "Always On" means that no matter the power it is always noticable (visible) no matter what, and you now have to take "Fully Invisible Power" to counteract that. Which is cool, but what happens if someone, for example, buys Energy Blast as Inherent. Does that mean he has the Cyclops syndrome? Always blasting away 24/7? Or do you still have control over the power like any other Energy Blast? Can you add the Invisible Power advantage to counteract the Visible requirement of Always On? Another one, what if a character bought Shapeshift with Inherent, is this person always noticable as having an amorphous form? Or is this Visible restriction only in effect when the Character is actively (though not nessesarily concsiously) changing shape? TB Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mister E Posted July 15, 2005 Report Share Posted July 15, 2005 Re: Always On (and Inherent): okay i'm abusing it... Okay you're right... my english is poor... Better than my Italian. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OddHat Posted July 15, 2005 Report Share Posted July 15, 2005 Re: Always On (and Inherent): okay i'm abusing it... You do not need Always On to get Inherent. You only need Persistant. So, Armor is persistant by default. If you define Skin Weave as 6PD/6ED armor, you can add Inherent and you're done. If you want to define Skin Weave as a Force Field, you need to buy 0 END and Persistant, and can then add Inherent on top of that. Always On is only needed if you want to limit the power. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr Divago Posted July 15, 2005 Author Report Share Posted July 15, 2005 Re: Always On (and Inherent): okay i'm abusing it... You do not need Always On to get Inherent. You only need Persistant. are you sure? in FREd? (not 5ER...)? (maybe resource kit are bugged... i must control on FREd, all right...) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr Divago Posted July 15, 2005 Author Report Share Posted July 15, 2005 Re: Always On (and Inherent): okay i'm abusing it... Better than my Italian. Well, i supposed... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fox1 Posted July 15, 2005 Report Share Posted July 15, 2005 Re: Always On (and Inherent): okay i'm abusing it... are you sure? in FREd? (not 5ER...)? (maybe resource kit are bugged... i must control on FREd, all right...) Yes, just Persistent. The confusion comes from the fact that Inherent Powers are defined as always on (i.e. you have extra limb as Inherent- you can't turn off an extra limib). The option to pay END to turn the power off is allowed with GM approval (can't imagine it with extra limb, but it works for a Ghost's Desolid). The idea is that 'always on' isn't *always* a limit for such powers. If the fact of it being always on is a limit, they you should of course take that limit. Hence the books states: "..and if applicable have the limitation Always on" Bolding above mine. Inherent can't be drain, aided, transferred, dispelled or suppressed. All in all, I think it's a wasted option in your typical cyberpunk world except for very specific things like extra limbs and ghosts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hugh Neilson Posted July 15, 2005 Report Share Posted July 15, 2005 Re: Always On (and Inherent): okay i'm abusing it... Yes, just Persistent. The confusion comes from the fact that Inherent Powers are defined as always on (i.e. you have extra limb as Inherent- you can't turn off an extra limib). The option to pay END to turn the power off is allowed with GM approval (can't imagine it with extra limb, but it works for a Ghost's Desolid). The idea is that 'always on' isn't a limit for such powers. Inherent can't be drain, aided, transferred, dispelled or suppressed. All in all, I think it's a wasted option in your typical cyberpunk world except for very specific things like extra limbs and ghosts. I thought you had to have the power be Always On by the book, but that it was still possible that Always On was a -0 limitation (ie if there's no disadvantage to the power being always on, you can still make it Always On, it just doesn't get any point breaks). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vorsch Posted July 15, 2005 Report Share Posted July 15, 2005 Re: Always On (and Inherent): okay i'm abusing it... I find it amusing to think of a non inherant tail. Just me Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OddHat Posted July 15, 2005 Report Share Posted July 15, 2005 Re: Always On (and Inherent): okay i'm abusing it... Pg.258, 5thER. It only has to be Persitent, and if applicable Always On. For Damage Resistance or Armor, Persistent powers to which Always On really shouldn't usually apply, you don't need any other advantages or limitations; you can just add on Inherent. For something like Inherent Flight, you'd need to add 0 END, Persistent, and Always On. Finally, at the GM's option, you could pay END to turn off an Inherent power. I really don't like this part of the rule (I'd rather see Ghosts buy off the Always On Limitation as a custom power called Solidification), but it's there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Supreme Serpent Posted July 15, 2005 Report Share Posted July 15, 2005 Re: Always On (and Inherent): okay i'm abusing it... I find it amusing to think of a non inherant tail. Just me I don't think of tail as inherent. You often have to put some effort in to get some. And if you're not careful, you could work it off. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vorsch Posted July 15, 2005 Report Share Posted July 15, 2005 Re: Always On (and Inherent): okay i'm abusing it... I also consider my arms inherant, but as thats not actually bought it cant be dispelled unlike a tail which is bought ( unless you have it as a sfx for other powers ). 30 15Dispell apendage 10d6 ( not usable vs head -1 ) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hugh Neilson Posted July 15, 2005 Report Share Posted July 15, 2005 Re: Always On (and Inherent): okay i'm abusing it... I also consider my arms inherant' date=' but as thats not actually bought it cant be dispelled unlike a tail which is bought ( unless you have it as a sfx for other powers ).[/quote'] Alternatively, one could assume that your "standard equipment" is inherent by default (you didn't pay points for it after all, so "what it cost" isn't overly meaningful). You can still Drain Running with the SFX of legs that shrink and eventually disappear, I suppose. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr Divago Posted July 16, 2005 Author Report Share Posted July 16, 2005 Re: Always On (and Inherent): okay i'm abusing it... Alternatively' date=' one could assume that your "standard equipment" is inherent by default (you didn't pay points for it after all, so "what it cost" isn't overly meaningful).[/quote']Well, in fact, all cyberware are "dispellable"; EMP are build as "Dispel Cyberware" Bioware, au contraire, is'nt dispellable: EMP does'nt turn off your skin... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kristopher Posted July 16, 2005 Report Share Posted July 16, 2005 Re: Always On (and Inherent): okay i'm abusing it... Ugh, one of my biggest pet peeves...the use of Dispell against Presistent Powers. Bleah. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.