Review of Hidden Lands

[James Gillen]

My review of Hidden Lands is up at RPG.net.

 

http://www.rpg.net/reviews/archive/11/11407.phtml

[Enforcer84]

Re: Review of Hidden Lands

 

Liar!

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

don't know what possessed me to say that. Good Review JG

[MitchellS]

Re: Review of Hidden Lands

 

I think we need to disagree about the Queen Mara picture. The Marus pic looks good though.

[James Gillen]

Re: Review of Hidden Lands

 

I think we need to disagree about the Queen Mara picture. The Marus pic looks good though.

 

That's cause Keith drew it.

 

JG

[Enforcer84]

Re: Review of Hidden Lands

 

yay keith!

[Guzalot]

Re: Review of Hidden Lands

 

Overall a pretty good review. I do have to disagree with this though

an individual Empyrean is considerably more powerful than the average hero, being built on at least 377 points (where the 5th Edition standard for beginning PCs is 350), of which 100 goes to custom powers and 18 goes to a Contact with fellow Empyreans (the average Contact costing 2 points...). So while the Empyrean race could be valuable NPCs for a game, or plot devices (it would really destabilize the world if such powerful beings pledged themselves to one Earth faction or another), they really aren't good as PCs unless the GM is running a Very High Power level game (like Galactic Champions, where one of the example heroes is an Empyrean).

Not true by a long shot. The basic Empyrean package is 277 points, then 100 for customization. If you were to make a slightly higher powered campaign of say 400 points there can be a wide variety of PC's of Empyrean stock or an all Empyrean campaign. 277 points pre-determined and 123 left over to make a custom character. That's far from being a Very High Power campaign.

[MitchellS]

Re: Review of Hidden Lands

 

Overall a pretty good review. I do have to disagree with this though

 

Not true by a long shot. The basic Empyrean package is 277 points, then 100 for customization. If you were to make a slightly higher powered campaign of say 400 points there can be a wide variety of PC's of Empyrean stock or an all Empyrean campaign. 277 points pre-determined and 123 left over to make a custom character. That's far from being a Very High Power campaign.

The Empyrean package I designed, after seeing the playtest manuscript, has them built at a 310 points. That leaves 40 additional points for skills and personal improvements. I'm not making a CU game but if I ever do that will probably be the version I use.

[keithcurtis]

Re: Review of Hidden Lands

 

That's cause Keith drew it.

 

JG

I did?

Is there another Keith? I don't have my comp copies yet.

 

Keith "???" Curtis

[Doctor Agenda]

Re: Review of Hidden Lands

 

Knock 5 points each off Power and Mental Defense and knock the customized powers down to 70-80 points and Empyreans become alot more player-friendly...could indicate a less experienced Empyrean. Issues with the folks could easily reduce the value of the contact. IMO, Universal Translator should be replaced with languages to avoid the accent and randomized understanding problems OR should have No Skill Roll (+1/2), No Accent (+1/2), and Only Previously Learned Languages (-1).

[Enforcer84]

Re: Review of Hidden Lands

 

Knock 5 points each off Power and Mental Defense and knock the customized powers down to 70-80 points and Empyreans become alot more player-friendly...could indicate a less experienced Empyrean. Issues with the folks could easily reduce the value of the contact. IMO' date=' Universal Translator should be replaced with languages to avoid the accent and randomized understanding problems OR should have No Skill Roll (+1/2), No Accent (+1/2), and Only Previously Learned Languages (-1).[/quote']

I like that a lot.

[Frostfucious]

Re: Review of Hidden Lands

 

Dont worry Kieth, no one posessed you while you were on vacation and drew it, I drew the Atlantis chapter for Hidden Lands....although, I dont have my comp copies yet....hmmmm, did you take them? lol

[Wanderer]

Re: Review of Hidden Lands

 

Knock 5 points each off Power and Mental Defense and knock the customized powers down to 70-80 points and Empyreans become alot more player-friendly...could indicate a less experienced Empyrean. Issues with the folks could easily reduce the value of the contact. IMO' date=' Universal Translator should be replaced with languages to avoid the accent and randomized understanding problems OR should have No Skill Roll (+1/2), No Accent (+1/2), and Only Previously Learned Languages (-1).[/quote']

 

In my experience Empyrean characters work best at cosmic level or so. Standard really does not do justice to the scope, broadth and variety of their powers. However, you can easily save some points by dropping Lightsleep for low Sleeping Life Support, the Contact can be reduced to 8- or dropped altogether if the character is a young empyrean who has not yet been discovered by the immortal parent or Ashima, or who likes to be self-reliant or is estranged from the race, universal translator is only justified for Empyreans who have alredy lived several mortal lifetimes. Young ones might get "only for languages character has encountered" (-1/2), e.g. Thalya in Galactic Champions has it, or it even be dropped altogether for adolescent or young adult empyreans. OTOH, almost all characters who have contact should also have Money, at least 5-pts: the average Empyrean likes to live the glamorous, lavish lifestyle, unless the character is an ascetic.

[Doctor Agenda]

Re: Review of Hidden Lands

 

In my experience Empyrean characters work best at cosmic level or so. Standard really does not do justice to the scope' date=' broadth and variety of their powers. However, you can easily save some points by dropping Lightsleep for low Sleeping Life Support, the Contact can be reduced to 8- or dropped altogether if the character is a young empyrean who has not yet been discovered by the immortal parent or Ashima, or who likes to be self-reliant or is estranged from the race, universal translator is only justified for Empyreans who have alredy lived several mortal lifetimes. Young ones might get "only for languages character has encountered" (-1/2), e.g. Thalya in Galactic Champions has it, or it even be dropped altogether for adolescent or young adult empyreans. OTOH, almost all characters who have contact should also have Money, at least 5-pts: the average Empyrean likes to live the glamorous, lavish lifestyle, unless the character is an ascetic.[/quote']

 

Good ideas. I think you should be able to play Empyreans at the standard level, although they're fine at the cosmic level, too. They're an homage to Kirby's Eternals, who are 'cosmic-powered' but not cosmically powerful (on average). They range from Gilgamesh (could probably beat Thor and was 'more immortal' which is probably why the writers couldn't resist offing him) to those brothers (Delphi Brothers?) Sersi turned into pigs. A 'no-name' Empyrean should probably be around around 250 points (use Wanderer's or other's suggestions and reduce the individualized powers further), Defender should be able to beat one. A 350-point Empyrean should be considered more competent, powerful, or experienced than average. A 700-point Eternal should be over a thousand years old, or devoted to training, or especially gifted for some reason. Just my two cents, though.

 

It would have been nice to have a look at their technology, all I picked up is they have weather machines and robots. I'm assuming stuff with a Kirby flavor, like cosmo-viewers and stasis cubes.

 

As I've said before, it should be taken as a compliment when people complain that they wish there were more.

[Wanderer]

Re: Review of Hidden Lands

 

Good ideas. I think you should be able to play Empyreans at the standard level' date=' although they're fine at the cosmic level, too. They're an homage to Kirby's Eternals, who are 'cosmic-powered' but not cosmically powerful (on average). They range from Gilgamesh (could probably beat Thor and was 'more immortal' which is probably why the writers couldn't resist offing him) to those brothers (Delphi Brothers?) Sersi turned into pigs. A 'no-name' Empyrean should probably be around around 250 points (use Wanderer's or other's suggestions and reduce the individualized powers further), Defender should be able to beat one. A 350-point Empyrean should be considered more competent, powerful, or experienced than average. A 700-point Eternal should be over a thousand years old, or devoted to training, or especially gifted for some reason. Just my two cents, though. [/quote']

 

Though I recognize you *might* do an Empyrean character on 250 pts, I'm persuaded doing on so short a budget would do the concept a terrible injustice. IMO, the run of the mill, untalented members of the race should be on 350-400 pts. Typical PC material, either characters with some serious experience or potential for greatness, should be on 600-700 pts, and the luminaries of the race on 1000 pts. *at least*. Therefore, IMO, Empyrean characters are really best suited for Very High Powered or Cosmic play. Apart from the Perks and Talents, there's not really anything in the standard template that should be dropped or seriously downgraded, and having a combination of 2-3 typical power templates (at the very least, some of them combined in a common Multipower) would be appropriate for the "typical" Empyrean. However, my perspective may be biased since I tend to focus on the high-powered angle of the superhero genre

 

As proof, here is a character I have been trying to concoct in the last few days. It's a combination of Teen Champions, Hidden Lands, and Galactic Champions in inspiration, a kind of "cosmic teen" superhero, a young "third generation" Empyrean, college freshman or upperclassman, just awakened to power and his heritage, much like Invincible or Superboy.

 

It's slightly above 661 pts., and I think I've trimmed and optimized the character, pointswise, to near-optimum. Nothing major might be further discared without doing the character injustice.

 

Irioth -

 

VAL...CHA...Cost...Total...Roll......Notes

66....STR.....8...66......22-.......HTH Damage 13d6 END [4]

29....DEX.....57...29......15-.......OCV 10 DCV 10

30....CON.....40...30......15-

20....BODY....20...20......13-

18....INT.....8...18......13-.......PER Roll 17-

18....EGO.....0...18......13-.......ECV: 6

25....PRE.....0...25......14-.......PRE Attack: 5d6

20....COM.....5...20......13-

43....PD......10...43.............43 PD (33 rPD)

43....ED......4...43.............43 ED (33 rED)

6....SPD.....21...6.................Phases: 2, 4, 6, 8, 10, 12

20....REC.....28...20

60....END.....0...60

60....STUN....25...60

6....RUN......0...6"................END [1]

2....SWIM.....0...2"................END [1]

13....LEAP.....0...13"................13" forward, 6 1/2" upward

 

CHA Cost: 226

 

Cost...POWERS

24.....Strength and Telekinetic Powers: Multipower, 60-point reserve, (60 Active Points); all slots Side Effects (only affects the environment near the character; -3/4), Activation Roll 13- (-3/4) - END=

2u.....1) Super-Strength: +48 STR, Reduced Endurance (1/2 END; +1/4) (60 Active Points); Side Effects (only affects the environment near the character; -3/4), Activation Roll 13- (-3/4), No Figured Characteristics (-1/2) - END=2

1u.....2) Super-Strength Tricks: +27 STR, Variable Advantage (+1/2 Advantages; Limited Group of Advantages (Area of Effect [One Hex], Armor Piercing, Autofire [5 shots], Penetrating); +3/4) (60 Active Points); Side Effects (only affects the environment near the character; -3/4), Activation Roll 13- (-3/4), No Figured Characteristics (-1/2) (Modifiers affect Base Characteristic) - END=6

2u.....3) Crushing and Rending: HKA 4d6 (60 Active Points); Side Effects (only affects the environment near the character; -3/4), Activation Roll 13- (-3/4), No STR Bonus (-1/2) - END=6

2u.....4) Telekinesis: Telekinesis (40 STR) (60 Active Points); Side Effects (only affects the environment near the character; -3/4), Activation Roll 13- (-3/4) - END=6

2u.....5) Expanded Telekinesis: Telekinesis (20 STR), Affects Porous, Area Of Effect (One Hex; +1/2) (60 Active Points); Side Effects (only affects the environment near the character; -3/4), Activation Roll 13- (-3/4) - END=6

2u.....6) Telekinetic Blast: EB 12d6 (60 Active Points); Side Effects (only affects the environment near the character; -3/4), Activation Roll 13- (-3/4) - END=6

2u.....7) Telekinetic Spear: RKA 4d6 (60 Active Points); Side Effects (only affects the environment near the character; -3/4), Activation Roll 13- (-3/4) - END=6

1u.....8) The Big Wrap-Up: Entangle 6d6, 6 DEF (60 Active Points); Side Effects (only affects the environment near the character; -3/4), Activation Roll 13- (-3/4), OIF (appropriate materials of opportunity; -1/2), No Range (-1/2), Extra Time (Full Phase, -1/2), Defense Depends On Materials Used (-1/2) - END=6

24.....Energy Control Powers: Multipower, 61-point reserve, (61 Active Points); all slots Activation Roll 13- (-3/4), Side Effects (only affects the environment near the character; -3/4) - END=

2u.....1) Energy Punch: HA +12d6 (60 Active Points); Activation Roll 13- (-3/4), Side Effects (only affects the environment near the character; -3/4), Hand-To-Hand Attack (-1/2) - END=6

2u.....2) Energy Blast: EB 12d6 (60 Active Points); Activation Roll 13- (-3/4), Side Effects (only affects the environment near the character; -3/4) - END=6

2u.....3) Energy Blast Tricks: EB 7d6, Variable Advantage (+1/2 Advantages; Limited Group of Advantages (Armor Piercing, Autofire [5 shots], Explosion, Penetrating) ; +3/4) (61 Active Points); Activation Roll 13- (-3/4), Side Effects (only affects the environment near the character; -3/4) - END=6

2u.....4) Energy Bolt: RKA 4d6 (60 Active Points); Activation Roll 13- (-3/4), Side Effects (only affects the environment near the character; -3/4) - END=6

2u.....5) Energy Wall: FW (11 PD/11 ED; 3" long and 2" tall) (61 Active Points); Activation Roll 13- (-3/4), Side Effects (only affects the environment near the character; -3/4) - END=6

34.....Telekinetic Powers: Elemental Control, 68-point powers - END=

20.....1) Graviton-Manipulating Flight: Flight 20", Requires A DEX Roll (No Active Point penalty; +0), Variable Advantage (+1/2 Advantages; Limited Group of Advantages (Reduced Endurance, Combat Acceleration/Deceleration plus No Turn Mode, Megascale, Usable Simultaneously); +3/4) (70 Active Points); Side Effects (only affects the environment near the character; -3/4) - END=7

37.....2) Telekinetic Shield: FF (13 PD/13 ED), Hardened (+1/4), Reduced Endurance (0 END; +1/2), Persistent (+1/2), Invisible Power Effects, SFX Only (Fully Invisible; +1/2) (71 Active Points) - END=0

50.....Hardened Body: Armor (20 PD/20 ED), Hardened (+1/4) (75 Active Points); Activation Roll 14- (-1/2) - END=0

17.....Damage Tolerance: Energy Damage Reduction, Resistant, 50% (30 Active Points); Activation Roll 14- (-1/2), Character Must Be Aware of Attack (-1/4) - END=0

17.....Damage Tolerance: Physical Damage Reduction, Resistant, 50% (30 Active Points); Activation Roll 14- (-1/2), Character Must Be Aware of Attack (-1/4) - END=0

6.....Empyrean Physiology: Lack Of Weakness (-6) for Resistant Defenses - END=0

7.....Empyrean Mind Shielding: Mental Defense (14 points total) (10 Active Points); Cannot Be Used To Resist Mental Attacks That Take Advantage of Psychological Limitations (-1/2) - END=0

10.....Empyrean Form: Power Defense (10 points) - END=0

18.....Rapid Healing: Healing 2 BODY, Can Heal Limbs, Reduced Endurance (0 END; +1/2), Persistent (+1/2) (50 Active Points); Extra Time (Regeneration-Only) 1 Turn (Post-Segment 12) (-1 1/4), Self Only (-1/2) - END=0

48.....Empyrean Physiology: LS (Eating: Character does not eat; Immunity All terrestrial poisons and chemical warfare agents; Immunity: All terrestrial diseases and biowarfare agents; Longevity: Immortal; Safe in High Pressure; Safe in High Radiation; Safe in Intense Cold; Safe in Intense Heat; Safe in Low Pressure/Vacuum; Self-Contained Breathing; Sleeping: Character only has to sleep 8 hours per week) - END=0

11.....Heroic Resolve: +8 EGO (16 Active Points); Cannot Be Used To Overcome Psychological Limitations, or Resist Mental Attacks That Take Advantage of Psychological Limitations (-1/2) - END=

10.....Heroic Resolve: +15 PRE (15 Active Points); Cannot Be Used To Resist Presence Attacks That Take Advantage of Psychological Limitations (-1/2) - END=

12.....Empyrean Senses: +4 PER with all Sense Groups - END=0

10.....Empyrean Hearing: Targeting with Normal Hearing - END=0

10.....Empyrean Sight: (Total: 10 Active Cost, 10 Real Cost) IR Perception (Sight Group) (Real Cost: 5) plus UV Perception (Sight Group) (Real Cost: 5) - END=0

34.....Combat Awareness I: (Total: 42 Active Cost, 34 Real Cost) +4 with All Combat (32 Active Points); Does Not Work If Two or More of Character's Sense Groups are Flashed or Similarly "Blocked" (-1/4) (Real Cost: 26) plus Defense Maneuver I-IV (10 Active Points); Does Not Work If Two or More of Character's Sense Groups are Flashed or Similarly "Blocked" (-1/4) (Real Cost: 8) - END=0

4.....Combat Awareness II: (Total: 6 Active Cost, 4 Real Cost) Acrobatics 15- (3 Active Points); Does Not Work If Two or More of Character's Sense Groups are Flashed or Similarly "Blocked" (-1/4) (Real Cost: 2) plus Breakfall 15- (3 Active Points); Does Not Work If Two or More of Character's Sense Groups are Flashed or Similarly "Blocked" (-1/4) (Real Cost: 2) - END=0

 

POWERS Cost: 427

 

 

Cost...SKILLS

1......KS: The Empyreans 8-

3......KS: Music 13-

3......KS: Pop Culture 13-

1......KS: The Superhuman World 8-

 

SKILLS Cost: 8

 

 

Value..DISADVANTAGES

15.....Enraged: by Treachery, Betrayal, Unfair Combat Tactics, Friends or Innocents Seriously Threatened or Harmed, Being Stunned or Taking BODY Damage in Combat (Uncommon), go 11-, recover 11-

20.....Hunted: Recurring Master Villain and Villainous Agency Enemies (DEMON, Mechanon, VIPER) 8- (Mo Pow, NCI, Harshly Punish)

15.....Hunted: Lemurians 8- (Mo Pow, Harshly Punish)

15.....Psychological Limitation: Arrogant and Overconfident (Very Common, Moderate)

15.....Psychological Limitation: Dislike of Authority (Very Common, Moderate)

15.....Psychological Limitation: Honorable (Common, Strong)

15.....Psychological Limitation: Loves Combat (Common, Strong)

15.....Psychological Limitation: Protective of Innocents (Common, Strong)

10.....Psychological Limitation: Thrillseeker (Common, Moderate)

15.....Psychological Limitation: Womanizer (Common, Strong)

5.....Rivalry: Professional (with other powerful superhuman fighters; Rival is As Powerful; Seek to Outdo, Embarrass, or Humiliate Rival; Rival Aware of Rivalry)

15.....Social Limitation: Secret Identity (Frequently, Major)

10.....Vulnerability: 2 x STUN Cold Attacks (Uncommon)

10.....Vulnerability: 2 x STUN Darkness Attacks (Uncommon)

10.....Vulnerability: 1 1/2 x Effect Flash Attacks, Sight Group and Hearing Group (Common)

 

DISADVANTAGES Points: 200

 

Base Pts: 800

Exp Required: 0

Total Exp Available: 0

Exp Unspent: 0

Total Character Cost: 661

 

 

 

[Doctor Agenda]

Re: Review of Hidden Lands

 

Wow! That's quite a teenager! Is he really a teenager (13-19) or relatively a teenager (20-99)?

 

I agree it is a perspective thing. The highest point level I've ever GMed was around 500 points and that was supposed to be mythically powerful. I understood changing the standard hero to 350 points because so many powers not directly related to combat or movement became more expensive it is harder to make a distinctive superhero on 250 points (although you can still build a combat-effective one on that). I also think low-powered heroes and villains are under-represented in the 5th edition, like there is a 'must be at least 300 points to wear spandex' rule. Hopefully Teen and Golden Age Hero will help in that area. So, to reiterate, I am coming from a different angle and think Joe Empyrean being 250 points would still be pretty awesome for an entire RACE of beings. And, IMO, these sorts of things should be designed to fit in lower-powered as well as high-powered campaigns so more of us can use them without extensive rewriting.

[Wanderer]

Re: Review of Hidden Lands

 

Wow! That's quite a teenager! Is he really a teenager (13-19) or relatively a teenager (20-99)?

 

Most likely, a college guy in his early twenties, since the skill spread is somewhat excessive for a true teen (but then again, I put it together by mixing up and rounding a bit an handful of skill templates from Teen Champions -but I was uncertain whether to make him more of a popular guy heavy on social skills or a geek high on technical ones, so I temporarily put them both in, so far . On a similar choice it would depend whether one or two "arrogant teen" psych lim (arrogance, thrillseeking) would be downgraded to make place to something more geek-y, such as "scientific curiosity". As regards the power and characteristic set, I really think I've trimmed them down to the point-optimized minimum, since it's 90% made up of the basic Empyrean power set and a "pick and choose" mix from some typical Empyrean powet sets. IMO a "teen" superhero is more fittingly made up from giving Limitations such as Activation Roll, Requires a Skill Roll, and Side Effects on most of all of the powers and making some Characteristics and Skills (such as CSLs) as "innate aptitude" powers, than from savagely cutting down the power level. But then again, I mostly focus on the high-end "Avengers and JLA" subsection of the genre, so in my feeling young supers should still be rather large on point spread: you barely qualify for the "run of the mill" super league at 450-500, you aren't a "really talented super" unless you clock to at least 600-700 pts. or so, and the true worldwide "major league" superhero luminaries clock at 1000 pts. or so. Therefore for "teen hero" characters I tend to focus on characters like Kon-El/Superboy, Psi-Lord, Invincible, Nova, Rachel Summers' Phoenix, long on raw talent and low on control and mastery, than Angel or Beast.

 

I figure a character like mine would be at home in an X-Something , Young JLA or "reserve Avengers" team, as a prospective full member in training of the major teams, with some more years of experience under his belt. Well, after some attitude adjustment and a bit more mastery on controlling attack powers...

[Doctor Agenda]

Re: Review of Hidden Lands

 

I figure a character like mine would be at home in an X-Something ' date=' Young JLA or "reserve Avengers" team, as a prospective full member in training of the major teams, with some more years of experience under his belt. Well, after some attitude adjustment and a bit more mastery on controlling attack powers...[/quote']

 

Your high-power bias certainly shows, Irioth is more powerful than Archon(!), an Empyrean 29 hundred and some change Irioth's senior.

 

Here's my take on a 'Teenpyrean', if I can get the spacing right this time:

 

Johnny Gray, Empyrean High School Student, 'Zap' in his Heroic ID

Val Char Base Cost

30 Str 10 20

18 Dex 10 24

20 Con 10 20

15 Bod 10 10

13 Int 10 3

14 Ego 10 8

13 Pre 10 3

20 Com 10 5

10 PD 6 4

10 ED 4 6

4 Spd 2.8 12

10 Rec 10 0

40 End 40 0

40 Stn 40 0

Characteristics: 115

Cost Power

25 Graviton-manipulating Flight: 10" at 1/2 End (+1/4) to 1 End

47 Empyrean Physiology: As Empyrean package plus 8 hrs sleep/week

10 Empyrean Toughness: 10rPD, 10rED Damage Resistance

3 Empyrean Physiology: -3 Lack of Weakness for resistant defenses

5 Empyrean Physiology: 5 points Power Defense

5 Empyrean Mental Shields: 8 points Mental Defense with Ego 14

25 Bioenergy Blast: 10d6, x2 End (-1/2), Act 14-(-1/2) at 10 End

Powers: 120

9 Contact 8- with Empyreans (very useful skills or resources, org)

1 KS: Empyreans 8-

2 KS: Music 11-

3 Conversaton 12-

Skills & Perks: 15

 

Points Disadvantage

20 DNPCs 8-: Normal Friends & Family (x2 Group)

15 Hunted 8- by Lemurians

5 Monitored 8- by Ashima the Enforcer

15 Psych Lim: Protective of Innocents

15 Psych Lim: Code vs Killing

10 Psych Lim: Feels Duty to Help the Less Fortunate

5 Reputation 8- as Helpful Teen Hero/High School Underachiever

15 Soc Lim: Secret ID (that he's Johnny AND that he's an Empyrean)

 

Base: 150 Disads: 100 Total: 250

[Metaphysician]

Re: Review of Hidden Lands

 

Blerg, I think therein lay the problem: three skills total. IMHO, no hero outside of a Grond-like imbecile should be that skill-less.

[assault]

Re: Review of Hidden Lands

 

Blerg' date=' I think therein lay the problem: three skills total. IMHO, no hero outside of a Grond-like imbecile should be that skill-less.[/quote']

 

Well, he's a teen, so it's reasonable to cut his skills back... Would spending another ten points on skills make you happy?

 

That would take him to 260 points, and he could be trimmed back to 250 easily enough.

 

Personally, I'm not too stressed about his skills. Once you include his "Everykid" skills he would be able to do most of the stuff he should be able to do.

 

But then, I did start playing in the Bad Old Days, when buying a Professional skill, a City Knowledge, an Area Knowledge and a Knowledge skill demonstrated a serious committment to roleplaying.

 

(Hmm... that's ten points worth. Definitely serious!)

(I'm assuming 3 points each for PS and CK, 2 each for AK and KS. Or tweak a bit.)

[TheQuestionMan]

Re: Review of Hidden Lands

 

Hidden Lands

Written by Darren Watts and Allen Thomas. A 144-pg trade paperback, perfect bound with black and white interior. This is a comp copy and was not playtested.

 

Overview: Hidden Lands is a sourcebook for the Hero Systems Champions setting but bizarrely enough, it could be used in all of the settings from Turakian Age to Champions and even Galactic Champions. There are detractors of Hero’s meta-setting but a book like this shows off exactly what you can do with such a long contiguous line of settings. For those who don’t know, Hero System settings all use a modified history of Earth with several lost ages that occurred long before the recorded history available to us modern folks. The is a free PDF that gives the details:http://www.herogames.com/FreeStuff/freedocs/HeroUniverse.pdf The premise of the book is self-evident; inside you will find lands, which for one reason or another, have remained hidden from prying eyes.

 

The book covers three primary settings and four secondary or short settings. The settings are inspired by legends, fictional works, and comics. Of course, each has Hero’s spin and twists applied to make them an integral part of the Champions universe.

 

Layout & Design:

Cover: The cover is a nice piece by Storn Cook depicting members of the Champions super team who have crashed in some pre-historic setting.

 

Interior Art – The interior art ranges from some pieces that are fantastic to others that are very substandard. The work of Matthew Tito Cuenca, if I can decipher the monogram correctly, stood out but there were several other artists with good pieces.

 

Editing and Layout – There is little to note here. Editing is well done. Layout is standard two column with frequent sidebars. I did notice a few editorial gaffs but these were confined to a couple of proofing/spelling errors.

 

Chapter by Chapter

Atlantis – This is the bulkiest chapter in the book, coming in at 40 pages. Atlantis plays a pivotal part in the Hero Universe. The legendary water kingdom has an allure that extends far beyond the Hero System and has captured imaginations since the time of Plato. The Atlantis of the Hidden Lands takes that illustrious history of magic and hubris and extends it ever further back more than 35,000 years. This is everything you could want from a hidden power (well, it would be nice if it wasn’t sunk in the ocean but that is another gripe.).

 

After expanding on history and characters within the Atlantean Age, the book breaks down the culture and society of the modern city. This section covers language, religion, economy, and the strong history of magic associated with Atlantis.

 

The next section is a ten page primer on adapting Hero to the underwater environment.

 

Arcadia – The high point of the book for me. Arcadia is well written and evocative. Arcadians have hidden themselves in a mountain fastness located deep within the frozen wastes of Antartica since the dawn of time. The powerful immortal race awaits the return of their creators and teachers, the Progenitors. If only the world were so kind. Even these powerful beings find those who are willing to fight and kill for access to their miraculous technology. Unknown to all, the true threat to Arcadia grows within their fabled city while their once favored son has found a home with the spiteful and immortality seeking Lemurians.

 

Arcadian, or Empyrean as they call themselves, are monstrously powerful characters regardless of the genre. The lowest Empyreans are built on more a handful points in excess of starting superheroes. Powerful members of this race approach the 1,000 point mark but then again, these guys tussled with the Greek and Roman god’s way back when.

 

Other Hidden Lands - This is a hodge-podge of various reclusive locations that seem to be a staple in fantasy settings. There is the mystical martial arts city of Shamballah and its dark counter part the shadow-city of Agharti. The Well of Worlds is a neat location centered on Ayres Rock in Australia. The Well is a dimensional portal and a hook for dozens of different adventure types (Invasion, Alternate-Earth, and Dreamlands spring immediately to mind). The final installment in other hidden lands is a section on Beast Mountain and derives from the legends of Dr Moreau.

 

Game Mastering – This section contains the usual suspects, including few paragraphs on using Atlantis and Arcadia in other genres (Fantasy, Pulp, Dark Champions, and Star Hero). Next up is the GMs vault with plenty of goodies including half a dozen character write ups.

 

Lemuria – I have never "gotten" pulp inspired comic riffs like The Mole Men, so it comes as no surprise that the bizarre, pulp inspired magic-tech and dark gods of Lemuria don't get me hoppin. If pisciremes, ornithopters, and quattropedes seem like fun to you (I know you pulpish fans are out there) then Lemuria will sing to your pulpish little heart.

 

Summation

Hidden Lands is a good book that provides exactly what it shoots for – several mysterious settings that have remained apart from humanity. The great trick about this type of a supplement is that nearly anyone can use what they like and discard the rest, after all who says you have to find all these hidden kingdoms?

 

Because some of us are block from RPG.net

 

Cheers

 

QM

[Doctor Agenda]

Re: Review of Hidden Lands

 

Well, he's a teen, so it's reasonable to cut his skills back... Would spending another ten points on skills make you happy?

 

That would take him to 260 points, and he could be trimmed back to 250 easily enough.

 

Personally, I'm not too stressed about his skills. Once you include his "Everykid" skills he would be able to do most of the stuff he should be able to do.

 

But then, I did start playing in the Bad Old Days, when buying a Professional skill, a City Knowledge, an Area Knowledge and a Knowledge skill demonstrated a serious committment to roleplaying.

 

(Hmm... that's ten points worth. Definitely serious!)

(I'm assuming 3 points each for PS and CK, 2 each for AK and KS. Or tweak a bit.)

 

That was my take, that most teenagers would have fewer skills than the average adult, and you could consider Johnny to have a 0-point PS like Student or Metalhead or Jock or Popular Kid. I think his skills are about right for an Empyrean teenager who was fairly normal before his powers 'came online' and spent a summer with the other side of the family before returning to home and school. I just don't think a suite of athletic, social, and technical skills is realistic for a teenage character who isn't supposed to be a polymath prodigy.

 

PS: Thanks for the post, Questionman!

[Wanderer]

Re: Review of Hidden Lands

 

Your high-power bias certainly shows' date=' Irioth is more powerful than Archon(!), an Empyrean 29 hundred and some change Irioth's senior. [/quote']

 

This is no real difficulty for me, since I am persuaded that the canon writeup of Archon is quite underpowered anyway. A character like that, one of the most important members of the CU Avengers' equivalent, one of the most prominent and battle-worthy Empyreans, the CU equivalent of Ikaris or Gilgamesh, should definitely be in the Thor/Silver Surfer range, and should clock at 1000+ pts. range.

 

Therefore, let me on a snap offer on a IMO rather more fitting writeup for our Empyrean battle-lover (used Irioth as basis, but it's only fitting since them and Thayla were rather similar in concept anyway, and I might as well make Archon the father of Irioth anyway, gotta spend the time in between tourism of human wars, Lemurian hunting, and superheroing, somehow):

 

Archon -

 

VAL...CHA...Cost...Total...Roll......Notes

90....STR.....12...90......27-.......HTH Damage 18d6 END [5]

30....DEX.....60...30......15-.......OCV 10 DCV 10

40....CON.....60...40......17-

30....BODY....40...30......15-

20....INT.....10...20......13-.......PER Roll 17-

20....EGO.....0...20......13-.......ECV: 7

30....PRE.....0...30......15-.......PRE Attack: 6d6

20....COM.....5...20......13-

40....PD......8...40.............40 PD (40 rPD)

40....ED......0...40.............40 ED (40 rED)

7....SPD.....20...7.................Phases: 2, 4, 6, 7, 9, 11, 12

25....REC.....34...25

80....END.....0...80

80....STUN....30...80

6....RUN......0...6"................END [1]

2....SWIM.....0...2"................END [1]

18....LEAP.....0...18"................18" forward, 9" upward

 

CHA Cost: 279

 

Cost...POWERS

85.....Super-Strength Powers: Multipower, 85-point reserve - END=

6u.....1) Super-Strength: +68 STR, Reduced Endurance (1/2 END; +1/4) (85 Active Points); No Figured Characteristics (-1/2) - END=3

5u.....2) Super-Strength Tricks: +39 STR, Variable Advantage (+1/2 Advantages; Limited Group of Advantages (Area of Effect [One Hex], Armor Piercing, Autofire [5 shots], Penetrating); +3/4) (84 Active Points); No Figured Characteristics (-1/2) (Modifiers affect Base Characteristic) - END=8

6u.....3) Crushing and Rending: HKA 6d6-1 (85 Active Points); No STR Bonus (-1/2) - END=8

3u.....4) The Big Wrap-Up/Burial: Entangle 7d6, 6 DEF (Stops Hearing Group, Stops Sight Group) (85 Active Points); OIF (appropriate materials of opportunity; -1/2), No Range (-1/2), Extra Time (Full Phase, -1/2), Defense Depends On Materials Used (-1/2) - END=8

7u.....5) Super-Breath: EB 11d6+1, Does x1 1/2 Knockback (+1/2) (85 Active Points); Does Not Work Underwater Or In a Vacuum (-1/4) - END=8

5u.....6) Shockwave: EB 11d6+1, Only Does Knockdown, Not Knockback (+0), Area Of Effect (One Hex; +1/2) (85 Active Points); Restrainable (-1/2), Only Affects Targets On The Ground (-1/4) - END=8

85.....Energy Control Powers: Multipower, 85-point reserve - END=

8u.....1) Bio-Energy Blast: EB 17d6 (85 Active Points) - END=8

8u.....2) Bio-Energy Blast Tricks: EB 9 1/2d6, Variable Advantage (+1/2 Advantages; Limited Group of Advantages (Armor Piercing, Autofire [5 shots], Explosion, Penetrating) ; +3/4) (84 Active Points) - END=8

8u.....3) Bio-Energy Bolt: RKA 6d6-1 (85 Active Points) - END=8

8u.....4) Bio-Energy Wall: FW (14 PD/14 ED; 5" long and 4" tall) (84 Active Points) - END=8

8u.....5) Graviton Control: Telekinesis (56 STR) (84 Active Points) - END=8

8u.....6) Expanded Graviton Control: Telekinesis (31 STR), Affects Porous, Area Of Effect (One Hex; +1/2) (85 Active Points) - END=8

87.....Graviton-Manipulating Flight: Flight 25", Variable Advantage (+1/2 Advantages; Limited Group of Advantages (Reduced Endurance, Combat Acceleration/Deceleration plus No Turn Mode, Megascale, Usable Simultaneously); +3/4) (87 Active Points) - END=9

17.....Empyrean Toughness: +12 PD, Hardened (+1/4) (17 Active Points) (Modifiers affect Base Characteristic) - END=

17.....Empyrean Toughness: +12 ED, Hardened (+1/4) (17 Active Points) (Modifiers affect Base Characteristic) - END=

25.....Empyrean Toughness: Damage Resistance (20 PD/20 ED), Hardened (+1/4) (25 Active Points) - END=0

75.....Hardened Body: Armor (20 PD/20 ED), Hardened (+1/4) (75 Active Points) - END=0

30.....Damage Tolerance: Physical Damage Reduction, Resistant, 50% - END=0

30.....Damage Tolerance: Energy Damage Reduction, Resistant, 50% - END=0

10.....Bracing: Knockback Resistance -5" - END=0

10.....Empyrean Physiology: (Total: 10 Active Cost, 10 Real Cost) Lack Of Weakness (-5) for Normal Defense (Real Cost: 5) plus Lack Of Weakness (-5) for Resistant Defenses (Real Cost: 5) - END=0

7.....Empyrean Mind Shielding: Mental Defense (14 points total) (10 Active Points); Cannot Be Used To Resist Mental Attacks That Take Advantage of Psychological Limitations (-1/2) - END=0

18.....Empyrean Form: Power Defense (18 points) - END=0

25.....Rapid Healing: Healing 3 BODY, Can Heal Limbs, Reduced Endurance (0 END; +1/2), Persistent (+1/2) (70 Active Points); Extra Time (Regeneration-Only) 1 Turn (Post-Segment 12) (-1 1/4), Self Only (-1/2) - END=0

48.....Empyrean Physiology: LS (Eating: Character does not eat; Immunity All terrestrial poisons and chemical warfare agents; Immunity: All terrestrial diseases and biowarfare agents; Longevity: Immortal; Safe in High Pressure; Safe in High Radiation; Safe in Intense Cold; Safe in Intense Heat; Safe in Low Pressure/Vacuum; Self-Contained Breathing; Sleeping: Character only has to sleep 8 hours per week) - END=0

7.....Heightened Reactions: +1 SPD (10 Active Points); Costs Endurance (-1/2) - END=1

13.....Heroic Resolve: +10 EGO (20 Active Points); Cannot Be Used To Overcome Psychological Limitations, or Resist Mental Attacks That Take Advantage of Psychological Limitations (-1/2) - END=

13.....Heroic Resolve: +20 PRE (20 Active Points); Cannot Be Used To Resist Presence Attacks That Take Advantage of Psychological Limitations (-1/2) - END=

12.....Empyrean Senses: +4 PER with all Sense Groups - END=0

10.....Empyrean Hearing: Targeting with Normal Hearing - END=0

10.....Empyrean Sight: (Total: 10 Active Cost, 10 Real Cost) IR Perception (Sight Group) (Real Cost: 5) plus UV Perception (Sight Group) (Real Cost: 5) - END=0

 

POWERS Cost: 714

 

 

Cost...SKILLS

3......Acrobatics 15-

0......Acting 8-

3......Breakfall 15-

0......Climbing 8-

3......Combat Driving 15-

3......Combat Piloting 15-

32......+4 with All Combat

3......Concealment 13-

0......Conversation 8-

0......Deduction 8-

10......Defense Maneuver I-IV

3......Disguise 13-

3......High Society 15-

3......KS: The Empyreans 13-

3......KS: History 13-

3......KS: Lemurians 13-

3......KS: The Superhuman World 13-

4......Navigation (Air, Land, Marine) 13-

3......Oratory 15-

3......Paramedics 13-

3......Persuasion 15-

3......Seduction 15-

0......Shadowing 8-

3......Stealth 15-

10......Survival (Arctic/Subarctic, Temperate/Subtropical, Tropical, Desert, Mountain) 13-

3......Tactics 13-

3......Teamwork 15-

13......TF: Common Motorized Ground Vehicles, Riding Animals, Balloons & Zeppelins, Carts & Carriages, Chariots, Combat Aircraft, Helicopters, Large Planes, Railed Vehicles, Small Planes, Tracked Military Vehicles, Two-Wheeled Motorized Ground Vehicles, Wheeled Military Vehicles

18......WF: Common Martial Arts Melee Weapons, Common Melee Weapons, Common Missile Weapons, Early Firearms, Emplaced Weapons, Siege Engines, Small Arms, Flamethrowers, General Purpose/Heavy Machine Guns, Grenade Launchers, Shoulder-Fired Weapons

 

SKILLS Cost: 141

 

Cost...PERKS

18......Contact: The Empyreans (Very Good relationship, very useful Skills or resources), Organization Contact (x3) (18 Active Points) 11-

5......Fringe Benefit: International Police Powers

5......Fringe Benefit: General of the Arcadian Armies

3......Fringe Benefit: Membership: Sentinels

15......Money: Filthy Rich

 

PERKS Cost: 46

 

Cost...TALENTS

20......Universal Translator 13-

 

TALENTS Cost: 20

Value..DISADVANTAGES

10.....DNPC: Arcadian Empyreans 8- (Slightly Less Powerful than the PC; Group DNPC: x2 DNPCs)

20.....Enraged: By Treachery, Dishonorable Behavior, Unfair Combat Tactics, Friends or Innocents Seriously Threatened or Harmed (Common), go 11-, recover 11-

20.....Hunted: Sentinels' Rogues Gallery 8- (Mo Pow, PC has a Public ID or is otherwise very easy to find, Harshly Punish)

20.....Hunted: Lemurians 8- (Mo Pow, PC has a Public ID or is otherwise very easy to find, Harshly Punish)

20.....Hunted: VIPER 8- (Mo Pow, PC has a Public ID or is otherwise very easy to find, Harshly Punish)

15.....Psychological Limitation: Does Good Deeds For Their Own Sake, But Tries To Avoid Emotional Connections (Common, Strong)

15.....Psychological Limitation: Hates And Mistrusts Lemurians (Common, Strong)

15.....Psychological Limitation: Honorable (Common, Strong)

15.....Psychological Limitation: Loves Combat (Common, Strong)

15.....Psychological Limitation: Loyal to King Hazor (Common, Strong)

15.....Psychological Limitation: Protective of Innocents (Common, Strong)

5.....Rivalry: Professional (with other powerful superhuman fighters; Rival is As Powerful; Seek to Outdo, Embarrass, or Humiliate Rival; Rival Aware of Rivalry)

15.....Social Limitation: Secret Identities (Frequently, Major)

 

DISADVANTAGES Points: 200

 

Base Pts: 1000

Exp Required: 0

Total Exp Available: 0

Exp Unspent: 0

Total Character Cost: 1200

 

 

 

 

Here's my take on a 'Teenpyrean', if I can get the spacing right this time:

 

Well-grounded as a concept, even if he is so low-powered that IMO he looks rather like more of a talented cinematic wuxia fighter than a "real" super. But I'm biased anyway, since in my sensibility to be a true super you have *at least* to be in the Warbird/Human Torch range. Apart from this completely subjective opinion, I'm somewhat perplexed on making Conversation the only relevant social skill for a teen. Conversation implies refined speech patterns. I'd rather use Persuasion and/or Seduction instead, they are more focused on typical social interactions close to a teen's heart (getting adults to do what they want, and scoring with pretty peers . Another note: for Empyrean characters, I'm always somewhat dubious about whether their racial secret would qualify as a separate Social Disdvantage, in addition to Secret Identity (such as Harmful Secret). There two different secrets to hide.

[Wanderer]

Re: Review of Hidden Lands

 

That was my take, that most teenagers would have fewer skills than the average adult, and you could consider Johnny to have a 0-point PS like Student or Metalhead or Jock or Popular Kid. I think his skills are about right for an Empyrean teenager who was fairly normal before his powers 'came online' and spent a summer with the other side of the family before returning to home and school. I just don't think a suite of athletic, social, and technical skills is realistic for a teenage character who isn't supposed to be a polymath prodigy.

 

PS: Thanks for the post, Questionman!

 

As I said, I pretty much picked and chose among the skills in the Teens templates (geek, popular boy, loner) in my playtest copy of Teen Champions. I was guilty of not being able to choose a single clique at the time, so I left in there skills fitting for 2-3 teen social backgrounds. OK. My fault for gorging in Skills.

 

Here, do you think this is going to be more acceptable for an Empyrean superhero upperclassman or college freshman ?

 

KS: The Empyreans 8-

KS: Music 13-

KS: Pop Culture 13-

KS: The Superhuman World 8-

 

And:

 

Oratory 14-

Persuasion 14-

Seduction 14-

for a popular boy/girl

 

Or:

Computer Programming 13-

Electronics 13-

Mechanics 13-

for a geek

 

Plus

 

+4 with All Combat

Defense Maneuver IV

Acrobatics 15-

Breakfall 15-

 

But these are bought as Powers (as a SFX of Super-Senses, they are liable to being blocked by Flash Attacks)

 

Maybe even a brief career in superheroics at the cosmic power range might justify buying a familiarity with KS: World Politics, much like you tend to get KS: The Superhuman World, I'm uncertain about it.

[Doctor Agenda]

Re: Review of Hidden Lands

 

Blerg' date=' I think therein lay the problem: three skills total. IMHO, no hero outside of a Grond-like imbecile should be that skill-less.[/quote']

 

I disagree about that being a valid criticism for a teenage character, but that's just me. OTH, Johnny is a low-power super, upgrade him to standard 350, surely you can tweak him to your satisfaction with 100 more points to play with?

[Doctor Agenda]

Re: Review of Hidden Lands

 

Well-grounded as a concept, even if he is so low-powered that IMO he looks rather like more of a talented cinematic wuxia fighter than a "real" super. But I'm biased anyway, since in my sensibility to be a true super you have *at least* to be in the Warbird/Human Torch range. Apart from this completely subjective opinion, I'm somewhat perplexed on making Conversation the only relevant social skill for a teen. Conversation implies refined speech patterns. I'd rather use Persuasion and/or Seduction instead, they are more focused on typical social interactions close to a teen's heart (getting adults to do what they want, and scoring with pretty peers . Another note: for Empyrean characters, I'm always somewhat dubious about whether their racial secret would qualify as a separate Social Disdvantage, in addition to Secret Identity (such as Harmful Secret). There two different secrets to hide.

 

You definitely took care of the discrepancy between Irithion and Archon!

 

I think Johnny's pretty reasonably powered for a New Mutants/Sky High or Low-powered Champions game. The point was really to bring a Young Empyrean down to 250 points...start with Johnny as a base (reworking the skills) and you can have a perfectly playable 350-point standard hero. It's a heck of alot easier to add points than take them away. It also means that not every Empyrean is going to overwhelm a 350-point opponent.

 

I don't think Conversation implies refined speech patterns, I think it implies the ability to get people to talk about themselves, but another social skill would have been fine. Johnny is just good at getting people to open up. I avoided Seduction cause he's so pretty the girls are after him, he never had to learn it. I didn't mean it to be the only relevant social skill for a teen, it just happens to be the one he had. Lots of folks don't have any.

 

I was dubious about Empyrean as a separate Secret ID too, that's why I combined them.

 

I haven't seen Teen Hero yet, is it any good?