Shielding a Base

[TaxiMan]

I've got a base. I want a shielded area for labs. No cameras, no IR, no x-rays, no audio, no RF. That sort of thing. Pretty easy to do today, nothing rubber science about it.

 

So, I'm thinking Darkness to Sight, Radio, Hearing, Only Across Darkness Boundary with the SFX that the room is shielded.

 

Good grief, that's expensive for a few labs! The cost is high primarily due to the +10cp / +1" radius for Darkness.

 

So how can it be done cheaper?

[prestidigitator]

Re: Shielding a Base

 

Hmm. How about a high Stealth and/or Concealment roll bought as UBO for a reasonable occupancy.

[prestidigitator]

Re: Shielding a Base

 

Seriously it might be pretty easy if you just use a little common sense. Apply an Advantage or two to the base's defenses (maybe even just Hardened). Use a similar philosophy to Cannot Be Escaped With Teleportation and Affects Desolidified, but vs. Clairsentience instead. If someone were to sneak inside the Base they might then be able to eavesdrop on different portions of it, but this should be judged based on SFX and the GM's common sense.

[Blue Jogger]

Re: Shielding a Base

 

The cheapest way to do that without going into funky powers, is putting the lab solidly underground. About 2 hexes (3, just to be sure) of packed dirt will basically screw up most hard science-based detection powers.

 

This only costs 20 points to put your base underground. Or you bring in dirt and fill 3 hexes around the base with dirt, this costs you space.

 

If it is a space station or underwater or some place where size is a factor, then you need a few inches (125 mm?) of lead. (13 DEF and 11 BODY)

 

This costs 42 points, but can be made cheaper by only covering the labs which therefore qualify for Partial Coverage. As long as the total base is at least 40 times the size of the labs, then you qualify for the full -2 and this makes it 14 points.

 

 

Known Problems: Only blocks radiation-based detections (Not magic or funky N-rays)

[Dust Raven]

Re: Shielding a Base

 

Are you applying all applicable Limitations? OAF Immobile and so forth? Limited Coverage (which does apply if it can only be turned on in certain parts of the base)?

[Super Squirrel]

Re: Shielding a Base

 

Powers bought on a base cover the entire base. In this case you want to apply a power to only part of a base. There are two ways to do this that I can see.

 

Concealment 15- (21 Active Points) Base Lab Only (-1 1/2). Total Cost: 8 points.

 

Invisibility to Radio Sense Group; Reduce Endurance Cost (0 END; +1/2) (15 Active Points); Base Lab Only (-1), Only Hides Contents of Area, Existence of Shielding Can Be Detected (-1/2). Total Cost: 6 points.

 

Add on OAF Immobile if you desire.

[zornwil]

Re: Shielding a Base

 

(ducking)

 

Megascale...

 

 

Although Dust Raven I think hit it on the head - you should have enough Lims to make this a non-issue.

 

As SS says, Concealment is often used, too.

[SirViss]

Re: Shielding a Base

 

Can't you buy Darkness or Invisiblity to a specific special sense? You could buy Darkness to N-Ray vision, and that would apply to all forms of N-Ray vision? There would also be Spatial Awarnes to worry about, of course.

 

What do you guys think?

[schir1964]

Re: Shielding a Base

 

Can't you buy Darkness or Invisiblity to a specific special sense? You could buy Darkness to N-Ray vision, and that would apply to all forms of N-Ray vision? There would also be Spatial Awarnes to worry about, of course.

 

What do you guys think?

No. N-Ray Vision is usually classified as an "Unusual" Sense with Simulated Sense applied to it. The Unusual Sense Group can not be affected as whole.

 

At least this is how I handle it. It's possible that other GMs handle it differently.

 

- Christopher Mullins

[SirViss]

Re: Shielding a Base

 

Actually, a while back, there was a discussion on how someone could make themselves invisible to IR-Detects. Problem is IR can be more than just vision, so how could this be done?

 

Someone posed the question to Steve, and this was his reply.

 

So, the option is there, if the GM permits.

[Dust Raven]

Re: Shielding a Base

 

It is possible and permissible to buy a sense affecting power to affect specific sense/detect. Such a power will affect all instances of that sense/detect, regardless of what sense group it may belong to (if any) for any given character.

 

So if I buy Personal Sandstorm: Darkness to Sight Group and Spatial Awareness 4", Personal Immunity, No Range, it will block everyone's Spatial Awareness power. If Bob, who has Spatial Awareness as part of his Hearing Group (super echo-location) and Larry, who has Spatial Awareness as part of his mental group (psionic scanning) both enter the sandstorn, neither of them will be able to use their Spatial Awareness. It blocks the sense, not the sense groups.

[zornwil]

Re: Shielding a Base

 

Give the base Shape Shift and let it look like something else!

[TaxiMan]

Re: Shielding a Base

 

Whoo hoo Zornwil! You said what I was thinking when I posted this in the first place. My thoughts went something like:

 

1. Couldn't Images be used to make the base look innocuous (like, people doing things normally; "no funky science lab here, no sir!")? Sure, only it isn't very good shielding, since it only applies negative modifiers to PER rolls. How to make it better?

 

2. Use Shapeshift! It's like Images, except it is an absolute power. Sense affecting, but no PER roll to defeat it.

 

I stopped there, wondering how to build it. I was concerned about the area I would give Shapeshift to. Do I need AOE for Shapeshift? What limitation (if any) do I get for "Only to Defeat Spying"? I mean, it isn't going to confuse people with shifting walls, it won't work if you're actually inside the room(s), but at the same time it's smart enough to know who is in the room and how to make them look casually occupied.

 

Weird.

[TaxiMan]

Re: Shielding a Base

 

I can't think of a situation where I'd allow a power like Darkness vs. N-Ray Vision. Seems completely meta-gaming to me.

 

It works against x-rays? microscopic teleportation gates connected to the super's iris? sub-etheric communication to a swarm of nanites, some of which are on the other side of the wall? "magic"? [i could go on for a while]

 

Darkness vs. Sight is pretty good, since N-Ray vision as described in 5er lacks sense, range, discriminatory, and targeting. Adding that piecemeal to keep it an Unusual Sense costs another 22cp. A lot of N-Rays are Sight group to save those points, so Darkness works.

 

For those characters with Unusual sight-equivalent senses, well, they paid their points - hopefully the GM keeps 'em from completely unbalancing the game.

[zornwil]

Re: Shielding a Base

 

I believe technically all you'd need to do is buy the base and apply the power with application to each desired sense.

[Super Squirrel]

Re: Shielding a Base

 

N-Ray Sense can't find something well concealed.

 

[Silbeg]

Re: Shielding a Base

 

No. N-Ray Vision is usually classified as an "Unusual" Sense with Simulated Sense applied to it. The Unusual Sense Group can not be affected as whole.

 

At least this is how I handle it. It's possible that other GMs handle it differently.

 

- Christopher Mullins

 

Per 5ER, I believe you can affect an unusual sense, such as N-Ray... it it is the entire group that you cannot affect with a sense-affecting power.

 

If N-Ray simulates Sight, then a Flash vs. Sight Group or vs. N-Ray would work. Spatial Awareness simulating Hearing Group is Flashed when affecting either Hearing Group of Spatial Awareness.

 

Don't have my book in front of me, but check the simulated senses rule in the Enhanced Perception powers. Will try and find a page reference later.

 

Note: I believe this is also referred to in the Combat Handbook.

[zornwil]

Re: Shielding a Base

 

Page 352

 

"Characters cannot buy Sense-Affecting Powers that affect the entire Unusual Sense Group (unless the GM permits this). Instead, the Simulated Sense Rule applies to the Senses in this group: they're affected by Sense-Affecting Powers that affect the Sense Group the character assigns them to."

 

Starting page 349 where it discusses the Simulated Sense Group Rule, it mentions "For example, N-Ray Perception, ... (and other powers) have the special effect of being "super-sensitive" or "super-powerful" versions of one of the standard Senses. N-Ray Perception could be a form of Sight..."

 

I don't see a problem. There are Detects and various other Senses that can provide a weakness for a Darkness on a base.

[Cancer]

Re: Shielding a Base

 

Give the base Shape Shift and let it look like something else!

 

Shape Shift, or just a mess of adds in Disguise? If it's located in/under another plausible facility, and made to look like a proper part of that other thing, wouldn't this be a suitable response?

 

(If not, I've got a base that needs to be redefined....)

[TaxiMan]

Re: Shielding a Base

 

It's Hero, there are tons of ways to do the same thing, Cancer. I wanted a shielded lab, not one that looked like something else or was hard to find, etc. Darkness (or maybe Invisibility?) seems to hit it dead on - but costs a fortune.

 

The Shapeshift / Images approach could have a SFX of some sort of holodeck or subtle jammer that broadcasts "normal" looking rooms. I liked that idea and Shapeshift was cheap that way, so I went with it. Besides, it's even better than Darkness - spys don't realize something is being hidden!

 

How many people end up modifying their initial concept because the rules make it too difficult / expensive? I know I'm not the only one.

[Cancer]

Re: Shielding a Base

 

OK, sounds like your concept is more ambitious than mine. I just want the base to remain undiscovered. The enemy is powerful enough to destroy anything I could build, so I have to hide.

 

This is akin to something I did (with a NPC) in another game. He was a courier, and had two Transform powers, both from Documents to Other Documents. The first one transformed any given document into something innocuous-looking ... a lengthy divorce court filing, IIRC. The other had some additional effects ... hardened, IPEs, etc. ... to make turn a document into a really reprehensible porn magazine.

 

The idea was "layered protection". Convert the secret doc into the porn 'zine, then convert that into the court document. On a simple inspection by a hostile intercepting team, the court document is Boring and ignored. If they have more power (and more suspicions), they penetrate the weaker Transform and find that the intended recipient has a taste for politically embarrassing pictures, but that too gets discarded (or, as often happens, lifted by one of the team goons, and it can be swiped back at a later time from the low-security goon barracks).

[zornwil]

Re: Shielding a Base

 

Shape Shift, or just a mess of adds in Disguise? If it's located in/under another plausible facility, and made to look like a proper part of that other thing, wouldn't this be a suitable response?

 

(If not, I've got a base that needs to be redefined....)

I've read of Disguised bases in the past, sounds good.