Help with a concept

[garou]

I am toying with a couple concept characters, and one is modelled (partially) after the character of Golden Boy, from the Wild Cards series. For those unaware of the series, he's basically a brick (superstrong), with a force field.

 

The force field is what is causing the problem. In the book, the field is generally inactive, as Jack goes about his normal life. But, when he's using his superstrength or under attack, it comes on automatically, and he can sustain it easily for several hours. The problem is that it also can apparently come on when he is under attack - even if he is unaware of the attack. For example - if a sniper shoots at him, the force field will be up well before the bullet has a chance to hit him, even before Jack understands that he is under attack.

 

It's not Always On (because he can easily wander around with it off), nor is it linked to Strength. It doesn't seem to be a Trigger either. Suggestions?

[Zed-F]

Re: Help with a concept

 

A regular forcefield, with:

 

8 Danger Sense, (Function as a Sense, Out Of Combat, Personal, Intuitional), Only to Raise Forcefield (-1)?

 

You could then put a Naked Advantage: Trigger on the FF if you wanted him not to even have to abort to turn the FF on when the Danger Sense activated.

[Phil]

Re: Help with a concept

 

Given that Always On is a limitation, only in this case it doesnt limit, I'd definitely say it was Constant, Always On (0) to represent a less limiting form of AO.

[Zed-F]

Re: Help with a concept

 

I dunno, it seems there is some advantage to not having it on all the time, yet having it pop on as soon as danger looms. Normally a FF is visible to 3 senses, and with this, you don't have it on so it's not visible, but you still don't need to worry about it coming on when you need it.

 

I'd say that if you wanted to make it a modifier on the FF, that's worth at least a +1/4 advantage, and probably more. The Danger Sense + Trigger mechanism works for me, but YMMV.

[prestidigitator]

Re: Help with a concept

 

I dunno' date=' it seems there is some advantage to not having it on all the time, yet having it pop on as soon as danger looms. Normally a FF is visible to 3 senses, and with this, you don't have it on so it's not visible, but you still don't need to worry about it coming on when you need it.[/quote']

That's what I was thinking: partial Invisible Power Effects. If it, "comes up automatically," it may just be that it is, in fact, always activated; it just can't be seen until it is actually needed. Call it IPE at 1/4 less or something.

[Helimar]

Re: Help with a concept

 

I am actually playing my own version of Jack aka Golden Boy in his 2nd or 3rd campaign. I built his force field with exactly this advantage, a limited form of IPE. I built his strength and force field as having several 'levels', each of which takes more and more endurance, exhausting the field faster. Each level of the force field only activates if there's enough force in the incoming attack to require it to activate, which limits his defense adequately, because only Body damage (or the equivalent for Stun-only attacks) can trigger each level. He cannot CHOOSE to activate higher levels at all, or apply them. His strength is another matter, that is entirely under his control, but again, since the highest levels of his strength are x8 End or more it's basically extended Pushing. This represents that Jack can easily handle going for hours at a low power level, but heavy duty combat or taking a couple howitzer shells can exhaust his bio-field much more quickly.

 

Some of this is probably not completely legal by the rules, but my GM likes the concept enough to approve things like auto-activating Force Field levels that are essentially NCC with no limitation for it. The very lowest level is persistent, so that has to pay for the "Fully IPE until struck forcefully (+1/2)" advantage. He also has a small disad for Distinctive Features simply because in a mutant-unfriendly campaign he simply can't hide his mutancy for long, especially in a combat situation. Sure, he can hide it for days at a time in normal interaction, but as soon as something hits him hard enough to represent 1 Body force, it flashes a dim golden glow (I think my GM was kind enough to say it had to be 2 Body to actually be noticeable, so I didn't end up blowing my cover for every accidental bump).

 

I also built him with Physical Absorption which powers up his PRE and a flashing damage shield, all of which is pretty much SFX for him glowing more and more golden as the fight goes on. It takes several blows for him to reach enough power to even flash someone with no flash defense at all.

 

Helimar

[TaxiMan]

Re: Help with a concept

 

The effect is that his defenses don't wear him out and are available all the time; it glows when using strength?

 

It's Armor, "Glows When Using STR or Under Attack" (like Visible, -1/4 or -0)

 

Don't get hung up on the name of the power, it's Armor.

[Helimar]

Re: Help with a concept

 

The defenses DO wear him out over time. Specifically the powers wear out the bio-field itself, weakening it and when it drops, it's gone for a little while. I chose to model this by simply using personal END as the bio-field, and increased END costs on the higher levels of the power to represent how it tires him out faster and faster as the power level increases. In the books he could not go hours and hours without any rest at all, unless he was doing particularly low powered stuff (20-30 Str, absorbing 2-4 Body attacks, stuff like that happening for hours at a time should be VERY rare in a Superheroic setting). As soon as stuff starts getting more strenuous, he wears out at a geometrically faster rate.

 

Helimar

[ghost-angel]

Re: Help with a concept

 

I'd use an END Reserve for that personally. But that's just how I see it. YMMV of course.

[Sean Waters]

Re: Help with a concept

 

Armour. Limit it to 'visible when using powers or under attack (-1/4). I note TaxiMan got there first. Well done.

 

Armour CAN be turned off, but you don't need to. It is on all the time and it is only perceiveable when it is actually 'being used'. No END cost...yada, yada. yada....works a treat.

 

NB if you are doing Golden Boy you should have some limitation on a BIG chunk of the 'force field' - 'Doesn't protect from falls'.

 

I don't know the character well enough to really comment on the END use thing. The problem with force field, to my mind, is that you would need to buy it with either trigger or always on at 0 END anyway. Trigger and IPE is going to make it at least as expensive as armour.....

 

Assuming the field can be used for a LONG time, I'd call the occasional overload/switchoff a seperate limitation worth -0 or -1/4 rather than modelling it with END loss.

 

Does Golden Boy's field turn off if he is unconscious?

[garou]

Re: Help with a concept

 

Does Golden Boy's field turn off if he is unconscious?

I believe it stays on, but would have to rummage through the books to be sure.

 

(I suspect that my aversion to using Armor is because my last brick lasted two sessions, and died to a 3d6 NND, Does Body - with Force Field as the defence. Too many villains, it seems, have some damaging NND (Force Field) attack for my liking.)

[Helimar]

Re: Help with a concept

 

The point here is that just being shot at repeatedly can wear down the field to the point that it becomes unusable without using ANY other power, so 0 End is not appropriate in any case, there should be some form of drain on the character, either his End reserve, his End, a side effect from being struck, Ablative, or something. This drain is faster and faster the higher powered attacks it has to absorb, as mentioned. IPE and trigger are not BOTH required, surely, since it is OFF until it is triggered, or ON and IPE until struck, one or the other. Given this second application technically costs End each phase even if he's not struck, I guess it has to be the Trigger, except for any 0-end levels which could be IPE instead.

 

I personally made the lowest, most fundamental level of the field persistent, but I cannot recall a specific instance in the books where he was unconscious and the field still dimly glowing... I do remember he was hard to treat medically because of the bio-field, but considering he healed rapidly because of it (I built it as slow regeneration) and he was nigh on immortal because of it, he rarely needed medical treatment

 

Helimar

[Sean Waters]

Re: Help with a concept

 

The point here is that just being shot at repeatedly can wear down the field to the point that it becomes unusable without using ANY other power, so 0 End is not appropriate in any case, there should be some form of drain on the character, either his End reserve, his End, a side effect from being struck, Ablative, or something. This drain is faster and faster the higher powered attacks it has to absorb, as mentioned. IPE and trigger are not BOTH required, surely, since it is OFF until it is triggered, or ON and IPE until struck, one or the other. Given this second application technically costs End each phase even if he's not struck, I guess it has to be the Trigger, except for any 0-end levels which could be IPE instead.

 

I personally made the lowest, most fundamental level of the field persistent, but I cannot recall a specific instance in the books where he was unconscious and the field still dimly glowing... I do remember he was hard to treat medically because of the bio-field, but considering he healed rapidly because of it (I built it as slow regeneration) and he was nigh on immortal because of it, he rarely needed medical treatment

 

Helimar

 

Welcome to the boards!

 

According to the book (I only have FRED with me but I think it is the same in 5ER) 'Charatcers can usually spot a power with trigger with a PER roll, unless it is bought....with IPE', so you just might need both

 

This makes the trigger option unattractive...which means you'd have to have the power at 0 END....or....

 

You could buy it with an END reserve that has enough recovery to keep it up all the time. Build in a side effect (loses 1 END for each point of BODY it stops) and maybe another lim or two and you would be goodish to go.

 

I still think limited armour is your better bet though

[garou]

Re: Help with a concept

 

It might be possible to build it with both - a small amount of armor (5-10 points) so that it never entirely goes away, but can run out to the point where it won't reliably protect him from serious attacks, and then maybe do the rest as a force field, 1/2 END, along with a hefty END reserve.

[Doc Democracy]

Re: Help with a concept

 

The end cost is an interesting aspect of the field.

 

I think I'm convinced by the argument for armour, costs END. I think I'd have a custom costs END limitation though - something like 1 END per 2 DC of largest attack that phase.

 

That would mean that if was hit by 12D6, 14D6 and 10D6 attacks in a phase then the armour would cost 7 END that phase. This is a different way of cost END for a power but possibly works for this character. If this was too high an END cost then you could go for 1 END per 3DC or even 4DC. You would have to come up with a value for each though.

 

If you were concerned about the NND then it would be easy to add a +3PD/ED forcefield 0END triggered by attacks hitting armour. The glow could come from the forcefield and the majority of the defences from the armour and you'd be NND secure (though this is a metagaming reason!).

 

 

Doc

[Zed-F]

Re: Help with a concept

 

Maybe another idea would be to have some sort of armour with side effects when hit to cause an END drain of some sort? Anyway, it's a thought.

[Dust Raven]

Re: Help with a concept

 

As TaxiMan originally stated, Golden Boy would have Armor, not FF. As I see the GB from the books, he'll just have plain vanilla Armor. No Modifiers. The SFX is that he glows when hit. The fact he can glow at other times is just a SFX of his other powers (such as his STR when he flexes or tenses his muscles).

 

As a note, GB's "force field" doesn't weaken. He might sustain enough punishment to knock him out, but the field always provides the same protection. Your character may vary of course, in which case the Ablative Limitation might apply.

 

Also, GB's field does protect hiim from falls. It's only been theorized that "a fall from a great height" might actualy hurt or kill him (hence his fear when pushed off a ledge into a hotel lobby 10 stories below; though in that case, he was saved from a full impact by Hirem).

[garou]

Re: Help with a concept

 

Yeah, Armor might be best, and just SFX the rest. Concerning the effects of the field weakening (and it's limitations):

 

"When Mr. Holmes started his tests he proved exactly how strong I was, which was stronger than anyone had ever seen, or even imagined. Provided I was braced well enough, I could lift up to forty tons. Machine-gun slugs would flatten themselves on my chest. Armor-piercing 20mm cannon shells would knock me down with their transferred energy, but I'd jump back up undamaged.

 

They were scared to try anything bigger than a 20mm on their tests. So was I. If I were hit with a real cannon, instead of just a big machine gun, I'd probably be oatmeal.

 

I had my limits. After a few hours of it I'd begin to get tired. I would weaken. Bullets began to hurt. I'd have to go off and rest."

 

Presumably, if you kept hitting him, sooner or later, the field would go away. GB mentions that he never got so tired that it did (but mentions that the field glow fades with fatigue), and worries about what would happen if it did fade entirely.

[Constantine]

Re: Help with a concept

 

I would definitely build it as armor, and just have the sfx of a force field. If you want to explore the option where his "force field" goes down slowly over time if he gets tired, I would put the armor on in layers, with each layer costing more and more end to use. Finally, I would only have the armor activate if the body of the attack required it. He could be hurt, knocked down, but I don't know if he EVER bled...

 

Also, didn't his forcefield provide him with some power defense??? I seem to remember he and Spectre tangling, and Golden Boy living, though its been a long time, and my memory might be faulty... (I suppose it might also be mental defense, depending on how Spectre's gaze was built. I think we did it as an avld that did body vs. power defense...)

[ghost-angel]

Re: Help with a concept

 

If you need to simulate the force field going down with time take Armor normally to a certain level. Then add on aditional Armor with END Costs that is only brought up when he's actively being hit.

 

Of course - the quote did says Hours, so in a short term it may matter very little and this can be ignored. If it ever comes up then it's probably just Story anyways.

[Dust Raven]

Re: Help with a concept

 

Yeah, Armor might be best, and just SFX the rest. Concerning the effects of the field weakening (and it's limitations):

 

"When Mr. Holmes started his tests he proved exactly how strong I was, which was stronger than anyone had ever seen, or even imagined. Provided I was braced well enough, I could lift up to forty tons. Machine-gun slugs would flatten themselves on my chest. Armor-piercing 20mm cannon shells would knock me down with their transferred energy, but I'd jump back up undamaged.

 

They were scared to try anything bigger than a 20mm on their tests. So was I. If I were hit with a real cannon, instead of just a big machine gun, I'd probably be oatmeal.

 

I had my limits. After a few hours of it I'd begin to get tired. I would weaken. Bullets began to hurt. I'd have to go off and rest."

 

Presumably, if you kept hitting him, sooner or later, the field would go away. GB mentions that he never got so tired that it did (but mentions that the field glow fades with fatigue), and worries about what would happen if it did fade entirely.

 

I've always interpreted this to mean "after a while, I've taken so much STUN that I need to take some Recoveries."

[Dust Raven]

Re: Help with a concept

 

Also' date=' didn't his forcefield provide him with some power defense??? I seem to remember he and Spectre tangling, and Golden Boy living, though its been a long time, and my memory might be faulty... (I suppose it might also be mental defense, depending on how Spectre's gaze was built. I think we did it as an avld that did body vs. power defense...)[/quote']

 

Yeah, in the same book as the fall in the hotel actually.

 

I'd say this would depend on how Specter's death stare power worked. The way I have it theorized, is that Specter just has a really big and heavily Modified RKA. Most people just don't have any resistant def, and die. GB probably has enough rD to keep him alive, but with a KA of that size, you'd bet he'd be under for a while, which is exactly what happened.

[TaxiMan]

Re: Help with a concept

 

Concerning the earlier comment that an NND hurt GB because he didn't have a 'force field' -

 

A NND should often be interpreted as being dependent upon a Special Effect - not a Power name. So if a NND, not against force fields hit GB, his Armor defined as a force field WOULD protect him. However, he doesn't have armor.

 

Notice I (and many others) capitalize terms when using a Hero power name, and leave it lower case when talking about a special effect. In most cases, I rule that NND's are defended against by special effects, not Powers.