The Munchkin Build Contest

[Fireleaper]

Re: The Munchkin Build Contest

 

Past threads have asked what a Spiritual Transform would do that Physical or Mental would not. One possibility offered was "State of Grace", for confessins to sins. That's just what comes to mind, I'm sure there were more. It is a category in itself though, not just a "meta-element" to unify the other two.

 

Reading this I had an idea for a "spiritual" transform. since a lot of superpowers don't necessarily have a "physical" or "mental" component, you could theoretically use a spiritual transform to Imbue a character with a super power (sort of like rewriting the metacode of a person). Although i would say that giving a mental power might classify as a mental transform.

 

Also you could give someone a spiritual mark (like a mystic aura distinctive feature) so you could identify them or even track them down with the right sense.

 

You could also theoretically use spiritual transform to "erase" in a long term fashion super powers like you could add them. Sort of like a curse where the hero become human for one day etc. to experience things like a normal person (i think i remember some shows where this happened).

[Kevin Schultz]

Re: The Munchkin Build Contest

 

Ouch...another nice one!

 

Another noob question if I may...what does pip mean? I know it's a single point but where does the term come from?

 

It refers to the dots on the side of a die or a domino that determines its value; ie, a "6" on a d6 was traditionally represented as 6 pips. (note that while I found this definition in the Marriam-Webseter online dictionary, the origin was listed as "unknown".)

[Fireleaper]

Re: The Munchkin Build Contest

 

Just a quick question, since this is a munchkin thread. If you apply the -1/4 to your STR or DEX for not being able to use all of its value to an extra limb (e.g. a tail), do you apply the cost to the points you paid for the characteristic or to the active points in the characteristic? (i.e. do you include the +10 free points of STR for this limitation?), I generally just base it on the points that I pay just for politeness, but I think that technically you would use the total value.

[Robyn]

Re: The Munchkin Build Contest

 

I think I'm getting it.

 

Among other things, you're saying that you can't use a Spiritual Transform to give a Physical Body to something that didn't have one.

 

Yes. Among the other things is that, if you could, it would open the floodgates to using Physical Transform to give a soul to something that didn't have one

 

And Metaphysician has already made the point

 

Yes, but you asked what I meant, and I wasn't going to leave you in the dark (and out of the discussion) by saying "Never mind, Metaphysician has already answered part of my question."

[Robyn]

Re: The Munchkin Build Contest

 

Just a quick question' date=' since this is a munchkin thread. If you apply the -1/4 to your STR or DEX for not being able to use all of its value to an extra limb (e.g. a tail), do you apply the cost to the points you paid for the characteristic or to the active points in the characteristic? (i.e. do you include the +10 free points of STR for this limitation?), I generally just base it on the points that I pay just for politeness, but I think that technically you would use the total value.[/quote']

 

This could result in saving more points than you paid. No, you don't.

[Kevin Schultz]

Re: The Munchkin Build Contest

 

This could result in saving more points than you paid. No' date=' you don't.[/quote']

 

I believe you can, actually: you can sell a characteristic down, and then purchase a limited form of the characteristic back up to where it was originally. Consider the following:

 

-9 STR 1

+7 STR +9 (not with extra limb -1/4)

____

-2 total, for a base STR of 10, and a STR of 1 on the limb.

 

I believe this is in the FReD discussion under "Limited Characteristics", although I don't have a page number to quote you right now. (I'm still at work.)

[Lucius]

The Munchkin Build Contest

 

Just a quick question' date=' since this is a munchkin thread. If you apply the -1/4 to your STR or DEX for not being able to use all of its value to an extra limb (e.g. a tail), do you apply the cost to the points you paid for the characteristic or to the active points in the characteristic? (i.e. do you include the +10 free points of STR for this limitation?), I generally just base it on the points that I pay just for politeness, but I think that technically you would use the total value.[/quote']

 

If you don’t use the total value, you are exempting the base characteristic (your starting STR of 10 in this case) from the limitation. Your Extra Limbs now have STR 10.

 

If you base it on the WHOLE amount, your Extra Limbs have STR 0.

 

This could result in saving more points than you paid. No' date=' you don't.[/quote']

 

Yes. Putting this limitation on a characteristic can easily yield more points than you spent on Extra Limbs. That’s why it’s munchkin.

 

I believe you can, actually: you can sell a characteristic down, and then purchase a limited form of the characteristic back up to where it was originally. Consider the following:

 

-9 STR 1

+7 STR +9 (not with extra limb -1/4)

____

-2 total, for a base STR of 10, and a STR of 1 on the limb.

 

I believe this is in the FReD discussion under "Limited Characteristics", although I don't have a page number to quote you right now. (I'm still at work.)

 

And Steve Long has endorsed it. That’s why it’s legal. WHY in the name of reason he’d make such a construct legal and official I have no idea, but that’s the way it is.

 

Lucius Alexander

 

Licensed to ride a palindromedary

[Robyn]

Re: The Munchkin Build Contest

 

This could result in saving more points than you paid. No' date=' you don't.[/quote']

 

I believe you can' date=' actually[/quote']

 

Right you are! This is apparently one of those things I made myself forget about preparing to read 5ER (5th Edition, Revised), though I did remember asking about it

[Balabanto]

Re: The Munchkin Build Contest

 

I encourage you to wait for next year at Origins, when I will actually TRY to win the competition instead of toying with people. HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA!

[Southern Cross]

Re: The Munchkin Build Contest

 

How about buying Aid with Variable Effect at the +1/2 level,and defining it as Aiding a Multipower Reserve & one ultra slot?

[Robyn]

Re: The Munchkin Build Contest

 

How about buying Aid with Variable Effect at the +1/2 level' date='and defining it as Aiding a Multipower Reserve & one ultra slot?[/quote']

 

I must admit that I don't quite see what you intend to accomplish by this. 5ER already allows, on page 112, that

 

At any level of Variable Effect that allows a character to affect two or more powers of the same special effect simultaneously, a character can use an Adjustment Power to increase both the reserve/pool and one or more slots in a Power Framework at once

 

Since the maximum value of Variable Effect is +2, it seems that most values of Variable Effect would permit the simultaneous Aid of your Multipower Reserve and any slot. Since a Variable Effect can be redefined from the +1/4 level up, it need not even be defined in advance for your +1/2 level.

[Southern Cross]

Re: The Munchkin Build Contest

 

Thanks,that's what I thought too.

[Robyn]

Re: The Munchkin Build Contest

 

Thanks' date='that's what I thought too.[/quote']

 

Right.

 

So . . .

 

Umm, what exactly were you thinking it would do?

 

I mean, what's munchkin about it?

[Doc Samson]

Re: The Munchkin Build Contest

 

Here is one combining a few of the builds above.

 

2d6 STUN Succor (10), 0 END (+1), Continuous (+1), Persistent (+1/2), Autofire: 20 Shots (+1 1/2), Especially Effective Autofire (+1), Self Only (-1/2), Only Up To Starting Values (-1/2) = 60 APs = 30 Real Cost.

 

Using the Standard Effect Rule, this power would restore 120 STUN every Phase, up to his starting STUN.

[Metaphysician]

Re: The Munchkin Build Contest

 

Here is one combining a few of the builds above.

 

2d6 STUN Succor (10), 0 END (+1), Continuous (+1), Persistent (+1/2), Autofire: 20 Shots (+1 1/2), Especially Effective Autofire (+1), Self Only (-1/2), Only Up To Starting Values (-1/2) = 60 APs = 30 Real Cost.

 

Using the Standard Effect Rule, this power would restore 120 STUN every Phase, up to his starting STUN.

 

Tag on Always On, and it will be happening all the time without any action. Or did you think it would already work that way?

[Doc Samson]

Re: The Munchkin Build Contest

 

Tag on Always On' date=' and it will be happening all the time without any action. Or did you think it would already work that way?[/quote']

 

I believe that's what persistent and uncontrolled are for. I chose persistent because uncontrolled says it is intended more for attacks. Always On is a limitation that I'm not really sure would be limiting anything here.

 

This build could be pushed to an even more absurd level if you reduce the dice to 1d6 and raise the autofire advantage to a +7 1/2 advantage (assuming a 60 AP limit). It seems to me autofire on Aid and Succor should probably be against the rules, because they don't require a hit roll and there is no defense to be applied. They are powerful enough as is and the cost even for "especially effective autofires" doesn't balance it imho.

[薔薇語]

Re: The Munchkin Build Contest

 

Tag on Always On' date=' and it will be happening all the time without any action. Or did you think it would already work that way?[/quote']

 

 

it is already "always on" becuase of Persistant. But if you Tag "Always On" limitation it cant be turned off.

 

la Rose

[OzMike]

Re: The Munchkin Build Contest

 

it is already "always on" becuase of Persistant. But if you Tag "Always On" limitation it cant be turned off.

 

la Rose

 

But isn't the rule that a limitation that doesn't limit the character in any way is worth a +0 (or -0)?

 

Plus it could always be drained/suppressed/transformed away.

[薔薇語]

Re: The Munchkin Build Contest

 

But isn't the rule that a limitation that doesn't limit the character in any way is worth a +0 (or -0)?

 

Plus it could always be drained/suppressed/transformed away.

 

that is when it comes under GM discression. IF you have a character write up with -always on- but has sevral ways to turn it off, then no, don't give him points back. But if that isn't the case I would be willing to let them have the lim. Imagine always on FF. Even if you take all the LS you still would be without human touch/contact:( . On a physicological side that would be rough. And then also no doctor would be able to treat you (surgery, ect.)

 

Again it all comes down to GM discression.

 

La Rose

[Sean Waters]

Re: The Munchkin Build Contest

 

1d6 entangle, 1 hex AoE 15 points

No defence, cannot form barriers and can be dispelled (-2 total) COST 5 points

 

Useless? Not really. If the definition of 'munchkin' is 'exploiting the rules' then just note that being entangled reduces your DCV to 0. Wait for a high dex opponent to act in a phase, hit him with this, and the team brick has an easy target. In fact, why not go with that other munchkin friendly rule, coordinated attacks?. So what if it doesn't even slow him down next phase? He's unconscious.

 

If you want to make it look less suspicious, buy more dice, and stick it in a multipower. More dice is less effective though - it reduces the damage you do on the follow up attack.

 

Definitely on my 'I don't think so' list.

[Sean Waters]

Re: The Munchkin Build Contest

 

Here is one combining a few of the builds above.

 

2d6 STUN Succor (10), 0 END (+1), Continuous (+1), Persistent (+1/2), Autofire: 20 Shots (+1 1/2), Especially Effective Autofire (+1), Self Only (-1/2), Only Up To Starting Values (-1/2) = 60 APs = 30 Real Cost.

 

Using the Standard Effect Rule, this power would restore 120 STUN every Phase, up to his starting STUN.

 

Quite amusing but...

 

1. This is not 'heal' - the points you lost from an attack are still gone until recovered normally: you can be unconscious and not know it with this power.

 

2. There has to be a reasonably common way to switch it off, even if you do have 'always on' and 'persistent'. That is going to be the real pain, once your enemies learn the shut down code

 

3. Succor is already continuous (well constant - which is what the continuous advantage does - it is not needed)

 

4. A GM would have to be very drunk to allow a power with a sizeable autofire in it anywhere near his game.

 

5. Why bother with 'only up to starting values'?

[CrosshairCollie]

Re: The Munchkin Build Contest

 

1d6 entangle, 1 hex AoE 15 points

No defence, cannot form barriers and can be dispelled (-2 total) COST 5 points

 

Useless? Not really. If the definition of 'munchkin' is 'exploiting the rules' then just note that being entangled reduces your DCV to 0. Wait for a high dex opponent to act in a phase, hit him with this, and the team brick has an easy target. In fact, why not go with that other munchkin friendly rule, coordinated attacks?. So what if it doesn't even slow him down next phase? He's unconscious.

 

If you want to make it look less suspicious, buy more dice, and stick it in a multipower. More dice is less effective though - it reduces the damage you do on the follow up attack.

 

Definitely on my 'I don't think so' list.

 

Actually, that IS useless, or at least nearly so.

 

1 Body, no Defense?

 

10 STR + Average Casual STR roll = nothing happens. The casual STR roll, IIRC, goes off before anybody can take advantage of the target's status at 0 DCV. He's hit, goes 0 DCV, makes Casual STR, breaks out, is at full DCV.

 

You do need more dice, but heck, just make it Transparent to Attacks.

[Metaphysician]

Re: The Munchkin Build Contest

 

Actually, that IS useless, or at least nearly so.

 

1 Body, no Defense?

 

10 STR + Average Casual STR roll = nothing happens. The casual STR roll, IIRC, goes off before anybody can take advantage of the target's status at 0 DCV. He's hit, goes 0 DCV, makes Casual STR, breaks out, is at full DCV.

 

You do need more dice, but heck, just make it Transparent to Attacks.

 

Doesn't casual strength require his action to come up first, though?

[CrosshairCollie]

Re: The Munchkin Build Contest

 

Doesn't casual strength require his action to come up first' date=' though?[/quote']

 

 

I was always under the impression that Casual STR happened automatically whenever one was Grabbed, Entangled, or trying to plow through an obstacle. Poring over 5th Edition, that doesn't seem to be the case ... either I'm stuck in 4th Edition, or the person who taught me 4th Edition was doing it wrong and I've simply inherited the mistake.

[mikesama]

Re: The Munchkin Build Contest

 

And while we are at it, another munchkin using Fuel Charges.

 

Flaming Jet 2d6 RKA: Continious (+1), Increased Stun Multiplier +2 (+1/2) (75 Active Points); 1 Fuel Charge Lasting 1 Minute (-3/4), OAF (-1), Power (-1/4), Visible (-1/4), Delayed Phase (-1/4). Limited Range (25" or Less; -1/4). Total Cost: 25 points.

 

You hit once, it keeps hitting over and over again doing 1d6+1 on the Stun lottery giving you a minimum of 4 stun damage on a bad roll and 24 stun on your average roll.

 

Just one little nit pick, RKAs are visible anyways.