Robot with an adamantium shell?

[Snake Gandhi]

I'm working on a character, and I'm having some troubles.

 

The idea is that I'm trying to build a robotic character, basically a good version of Mechanon or Ultron, and I want his big gimmick to be he has an adamantium shell, making him nearly immune to normal damage. (or at least Body damage; he can still be knocked out)

 

Now the power is easy, just Armor, probably x2 Hardened. But how high should the value be? 30'ish maybe?

 

Secondly, any advice for fitting a decently powered robot of that style into 350 points? I mean, After buying his Characteristics and skill/Talents, I've used up about 280-300 points and thats without the Armor. It's tough to save points because for the most part his powers are bought straight. I'm having a very hard time trying to think of any way to be a decent selection of powers, as no Disadvantages that are appropriate come to mind and most of his powers aren't allowed into an EC.

 

Any advice you all can spare would be much appreciated.

[Vanguard00]

Re: Robot with an adamantium shell?

 

Any advice you all can spare would be much appreciated.

Is this a PC or NPC?

 

If it's the former, you're going to have make some sacrifices to get him under 350pts. For example, make the armor only Hardened x1. Give the robot something to work towards. Instead of 30/30 Armor, consider ARmor 25/25 for the same reason. Use experience to build him up. "Well, my last body took way too much damage; I almost crashed. This time, the chassis will be much stronger..."

 

Same with STR. Give him a decent starting strength, but if you feel he needs more then shunt some power that way (i.e. put STR in a Multipower with some EBs and such). The problem with trying to duplicate ultra-villains like you're trying to do is that they're not meant to be "starting" characters. They have history; they've had numerous versions, each one better than the last. There's no reason you should assume that the version of the robot you're creating is the "end all be all" version--he's still just a starting character (relatively speaking), so leave some gaps that you can fill in after you earn some xp.

 

You'll be able to find lots of little things you can cut that you might really want but you don't really need. Don't give him a full sensor array; a bit of nightvision and maybe increased perception is enough to start. Don't give him bunches of skill levels, especially Overall; give him one or two with INT skills or his Multipower or whatever. Again, room to grow.

 

Start shaving costs like that and you'll quickly see his total cost dwindle to something more manageable.

 

If it's the latter and this an NPC, quit worryin' about points

[Vanguard00]

Re: Robot with an adamantium shell?

 

Or you can post what you have and let folks pick him apart for you

[levi]

Re: Robot with an adamantium shell?

 

As a PC, I would say that you should find out what the campaign DEF max is for starting characters and go for that as your starting value with the x1 Hardened.

 

When you save up enough points, with GM approval maybe you could buy 25% Damage Reduction to further emphasize that your armor rebuffs most physical damage thrown at it.

 

As a GM, the only way you get to play a character like this is with a fairly common Vulnerability. (maybe electricity since he's a robot, or water)

[Killer Shrike]

Re: Robot with an adamantium shell?

 

You might consider doing something like this character:

 

http://www.killershrike.com/MillennialMen/CharacterFiles/npcs/ERG-9.html

http://www.killershrike.com/MillennialMen/CharacterFiles/npcs/ERG-9_Suit.html

 

 

Just tone down the base form a lot and make the vehicle more powerful and up the DEF to 30. Ta-da. Almost nothing will hurt it.

 

Whether its PLAYABLE or not is another question.

[Matt Frisbee]

Re: Robot with an adamantium shell?

 

Okay, my gut response to this question was "Great, another munchkin build," but now that I've turned my mind to it a bit, the point becomes rather moot.

 

The issue here is what limits are in place for the campaign this robot is going to playing in? With that being said, it could be adamantium, kevlar, transparent aluminum or a force field that protects the robot and it wouldn't really matter. This becomes a munchkin build if it attempts to get around the game's established limits.

 

So far as materials are concerned, why adamantium? Does it have other inherent advantages besides being really hard? If it granted the robot other forms of protection or had other inherent abilities (i.e. other powers, talents, skills, etc.) then it is an issue. Can this material cause problems for the robot (i.e. be the cause of disadvantages for the character)? Once again, that would make the material an issue. Does your GM have house rules concerning the material? Or is this just something you think would be neat for the robot concept regardless of the ramifications?

 

And on a more basic level as a GM, I've always had problems with players who wanted to play robots (along with androids and aliens, too) because they usually had a very weak character concept to go with it, thinking that all they would have to do is fight and the disadvantage points for being alien to the rest of society would be enough. In the other cases, it was a shameless attention grab by a player because they would always interrupt the flow of the game with one of their "I am not familiar with that concept" routines when their character was free associating and using slang just a scene before.

 

Sorry, I'm venting, and this isn't meant to be personal, Snake. It just seems that the concepts of offense and defense are so very basic to the game that anyone with enough talent to come up with such a cute animated .gif for an avatar shouldn't be having issues like this. As was mentioned by other posters on this thread, it will probably take a presentation of the character concept to validate the effort (to my mind).

 

Matt "Don't-call-me-a-curmudgeon" Frisbee

[Snake Gandhi]

Re: Robot with an adamantium shell?

 

This isn't for any game, just me making characters for fun. I'll post what i have here shorlty for the vultures to tear apart.

 

And the idea I had in the back of my head was Mechanon made an AI and put him in a body as some kind of experiment, only this robot went good.

[assault]

Re: Robot with an adamantium shell?

 

I call this problem "Superman syndrome". I'm a shocker for it.

 

Basically, you have defined yourself a character that can't be built on your available points.

 

There are two aspects to the problem.

 

First, your main powers, particularly your defences in this case, are probably set a bit too high. You might need to tone them down a bit.

 

Second, your character needs to spend a lot of points in secondary powers to work properly. After all, a robot needs a certain amount of life support, and probably at least some enhanced senses.

 

The first thing to do is to trim the secondary powers to the bare minimum. Spend as little as possible here. You don't strictly need enhanced senses at all, and you could, perhaps, even trim your life support to as little as having self-contained breathing. Of course that means that your robot can catch a cold(!), but that isn't actually an issue if the GM doesn't make it one.

 

Second, consider using a multipower for your major powers other than armour. Stick your flight, energy blast(s), enhanced strength and so on in here, and switch "your energy" around between them. I suggest a Multi slot for flight, and slightly smaller Ultra slots for everything else. That way, your character can fly slowly while using other powers, and can really zoom along when he isn't.

 

This multipower will burn a lot of points, but can be expanded relatively quickly with experience.

 

Your defences are still going to be a problem, but just do the best you can. As long as your character is a good solid brick, you can fake it well enough.

 

Try to avoid tanks! 8d6 RKAs are nasty.

 

On the other hand, if your character does end up taking Body, you can always say that it is "internal damage that occurred despite his invulnerable shell being undamaged" or some similar line of nonsense. After all, even Ultron has been taken out this way.

 

In short, fake it!

[Killer Shrike]

Re: Robot with an adamantium shell?

 

I dont see it that way -- its very common IME for players coming into a Champions campaign to struggle with the idea of "how do I make an invulnerable character?".

 

It is a staple of the genre afterall. The idea of tracking damage and that without an author to script events all characters must be restrainable in some sense (most typically vulnerablity to getting knocked out) is a GAME idea, not a COMIC idea.

 

 

So when a newish player pipes up and says "I want my character to be invulnerable to harm" its not really a surprise. Telling them "NO" out of hand because from your more mature gamist position its an immature "munchkin" idea doesnt really help. Let them play as close to invulnerable as their points allow. If they are smart theyll learn from experience that while being really tough has its up side, in a point based system it also has its downside (in the form of points spent).

 

I'm a famed munchkin slayer myself, but I also discriminate between true munchkins and neophytes.

[Snake Gandhi]

Re: Robot with an adamantium shell?

 

BTW, I wasn't shooting for 'invulnerable' so much as 'really, really tough'. I fully expect him to be able to be knocked out, just not too easily.

 

I guess he'd have brick defenses, but be more of an energy blaster on offense.

[assault]

Re: Robot with an adamantium shell?

 

Try something like this:

 

Points Item

125 Characteristics

25 Skills

75 20PD/20ED Armour, Hardened(x1)

4 Knockback Resistance

10 Life Support - Self-contained Breathing

70 Multipower Base

9 Slot 1. Flight (Multi)

2 Slot 2. Megascale Flight (Ultra)

12 Slot 3. Energy Blast (Ultra)

2 Slot 4. +20 Strength, OEnd, No Fig Chars (Ultra)

16 Misc/Tuning

===

350 Total

 

The Endurance cost of the EB will be a problem.

 

I don't have the book in front of me, so the numbers are a bit approximate.

[Matt Frisbee]

Re: Robot with an adamantium shell?

 

BTW, I wasn't shooting for 'invulnerable' so much as 'really, really tough'. I fully expect him to be able to be knocked out, just not too easily.

 

I guess he'd have brick defenses, but be more of an energy blaster on offense.

 

If that's the case, then it's a fairly easy build. Let's see...don't know what power level you're playing with this one, so I'll just go obscene and then you can scale it back to whatever level you want.

 

An interesting way to do this is to buy the armor as a shield with Missile Deflection power with the advantage of difficult to dispell. Just make sure to give the character a decent speed, and then add more speed with the limitation "Can only missile deflect on added phases" say for a (-1/2) limitation; also buy bonus combat skill levels for Missile Deflection. This should work against all but the those opponents who have the ability to drain powers or speed, and it won't work against Area of Effect attacks.

 

The straight build is 30 PD / 30 ED Armor with the advantages of Difficult to Dispel (+1/4) and Hardened (+1/4) for a total of 135 Active Points. For every additional level of Hardened, add 22.5 Active Points. Add to this 75% Resistent Damage Reduction for both physical & energy attacks with the same package of advantages, making a total of 180 Active Points for that part. That makes the straight build cost 315 Active Points. To make sure some smart aleck doesn't drain off your armor, buy around 30 points of Power Defense with the advantages of Difficult to Dispel and Hardened (45 Active Points) with the limitation "Only protects Armor" which should be worth a (-1) limitation, making this added layer worth (22.5) 23 real points, for a total build cost of 338 real points and 360 Active Points.

 

That work for you? If you want to make it more fair to the players, lower the armor and power defense values a bit.

 

Matt "Went-to-the-munchkin-side-kicking-and-screaming" Frisbee

[Killer Shrike]

Re: Robot with an adamantium shell?

 

If you are buying ARMOR or some other PERSISTANT Power, you'd be better off taking INHERENT for +1/4 rather than Difficult to Dispel for +1/4.

 

Inherent Powers can't be "Aided, Dispelled, Drained, Suppressed, Transferred, or the like".

[Snake Gandhi]

Re: Robot with an adamantium shell?

 

Okay, taking some advice on this thread, here's what I have so far. It seems really plain to me, and sorta fragile.

 

One

Val	Char	Cost
60	STR	20
20	DEX	30
25	CON	30
10	BODY	0
30	INT	20
15	EGO	10
15	PRE	5
10	COM	0

26	PD	0
25	ED	0
5	SPD	20
11	REC	0
50	END	0
38	STUN	0

6"	RUN	0
2"	SWIM	0
12"	LEAP	0
Characteristics Cost: 135

Cost	Power
75	Armor (20 PD/20 ED), Hardened (+1/4) (75 Active Points)
4	Knockback Resistance -2"
70	Multipower, 70-point reserve
7u	1)  Energy Blast 14d6 (70 Active Points)
6u	2)  Flight 20", Reduced Endurance (0 END; +1/2) (60 Active Points)
2u	3)  Flight 10", MegaScale (1" = 1 km; +1/4) (25 Active Points)
3u	4)  +30 STR, Reduced Endurance (0 END; +1/2) (45 Active Points); No Figured Characteristics (-1/2)
Powers Cost: 167


Cost	Skill
10	Computer Programming (Computer Networks, Hacking and Computer Security, Personal Computers, Mainframes and Supercomputers, Military Computers) 15-
3	Electronics 15-
3	Scientist
2	1)  SS:  Artificial Intelligence 15- (3 Active Points)
2	2)  SS:  Metallurgy 15- (3 Active Points)
2	3)  SS:  Physics 15- (3 Active Points)
2	4)  SS:  Robotics 15- (3 Active Points)
3	Scholar
2	1)  KS: AK: Major US Cities (3 Active Points) 15-
2	2)  KS: Human History (3 Active Points) 15-
2	3)  KS: The Superhuman World (3 Active Points) 15-
3	Mechanics 15-
4	Systems Operation (Communications Systems, Environmental Systems) 15-
Skills Cost: 40


Cost	Talent
5	Eidetic Memory
3	Lightning Calculator
Talents Cost: 8

Total Character Cost: 350

Base Points: 200
Experience Required: 150
Total Experience Available: 0
Experience Unspent: 0

[assault]

Re: Robot with an adamantium shell?

 

30 INT 20

15 EGO 10

 

Try 28 INT and 14 EGO.

 

You save 4 points with no serious drawbacks.

 

Drop these points into PD and ED.

[Killer Shrike]

Re: Robot with an adamantium shell?

 

Kind of vanilla, but basically serviceable.

[Supreme Serpent]

Re: Robot with an adamantium shell?

 

One thing to consider is re-imagine the concept and "move the goalpost".

 

Ultron is a perfect example. Sure, your robot's shell is composed of adamantium and basically indestructible. And if he could be a featurless ball of solid metal, he would be essentially invulnerable. However to be functional, there are joints, sensors, etc. that are relatively vulnerable, and internal components made of lesser materials that can be damaged/jarred loose. So, get as good defenses as you can, and if you do happen to take body, it's not that your shell was penetrated, it's that the attack knocked something loose inside, or the attack hit at just the right place to damage a joint, etc.

[Snake Gandhi]

Re: Robot with an adamantium shell?

 

One thing to consider is re-imagine the concept and "move the goalpost".

 

Ultron is a perfect example. Sure, your robot's shell is composed of adamantium and basically indestructible. And if he could be a featurless ball of solid metal, he would be essentially invulnerable. However to be functional, there are joints, sensors, etc. that are relatively vulnerable, and internal components made of lesser materials that can be damaged/jarred loose. So, get as good defenses as you can, and if you do happen to take body, it's not that your shell was penetrated, it's that the attack knocked something loose inside, or the attack hit at just the right place to damage a joint, etc.

That was pretty mcuh my intention to start with.

 

As he stands now, I agree with Killer Shrike in that he's usable, just kinda plain.

[Matt Frisbee]

Re: Robot with an adamantium shell?

 

If you are buying ARMOR or some other PERSISTANT Power, you'd be better off taking INHERENT for +1/4 rather than Difficult to Dispel for +1/4.

 

Inherent Powers can't be "Aided, Dispelled, Drained, Suppressed, Transferred, or the like".

 

Point taken, KS -- I guess I was doing it 4th Ed style. So I guess I'm hopelessly old school.

 

Matt "Still-lovin'-the-dog-eared-softcover" Frisbee

[assault]

Re: Robot with an adamantium shell?

 

One thing to consider is re-imagine the concept and "move the goalpost".

 

I've been trying to work out ways of making the character more "robot-y". The thing that bugs me the most is the absence of Life Support, so I've been focussing on ways of shaving enough points to buy some.

 

That pretty much means finding an excuse for sticking some limitations on his Multipower.

 

One possibility is to play with the Adamantium concept. You see, adamantium is difficult to work, so it's conceivable that a fair bit of the robot's equipment might actually be external to its body. Essentially, you would give its multipower a focus limitation, since its flight unit, for example, would be at least notionally able to be separated from its body. Unfortunately, of course, since he's a robot, it's not likely that he would spend much time without his equipment, so part of the limitation wouldn't really apply.

 

Still, it might be possible to do something along these general lines.

 

Justifying an external structure for his strength enhancement stuff might seem a little iffy, but some kind of exo-skeletal structure would work.

 

Essentially, his "shell" would become something more like a skeleton.

 

Hmm... an adamantium skeleton... where have I heard that before???

[Broblawsky]

Re: Robot with an adamantium shell?

 

That was pretty mcuh my intention to start with.

 

As he stands now, I agree with Killer Shrike in that he's usable, just kinda plain.

You could put Restrainable on your multipower, to represent that those systems can be removed by a Roboticist or disabled with an EMP. That would save ~20 pts.

[Killer Shrike]

Re: Robot with an adamantium shell?

 

I've been trying to work out ways of making the character more "robot-y". The thing that bugs me the most is the absence of Life Support, so I've been focussing on ways of shaving enough points to buy some.

 

That pretty much means finding an excuse for sticking some limitations on his Multipower.

 

One possibility is to play with the Adamantium concept. You see, adamantium is difficult to work, so it's conceivable that a fair bit of the robot's equipment might actually be external to its body. Essentially, you would give its multipower a focus limitation, since its flight unit, for example, would be at least notionally able to be separated from its body. Unfortunately, of course, since he's a robot, it's not likely that he would spend much time without his equipment, so part of the limitation wouldn't really apply.

 

Still, it might be possible to do something along these general lines.

 

Justifying an external structure for his strength enhancement stuff might seem a little iffy, but some kind of exo-skeletal structure would work.

 

Essentially, his "shell" would become something more like a skeleton.

 

Hmm... an adamantium skeleton... where have I heard that before???

 

cough**VEHICLE**cough

[Fedifensor]

Re: Robot with an adamantium shell?

 

Well, if you want to make something Ultron-esque, buy extra defenses with the limitation "only protects against BODY damage" (assuming the robot can take STUN) or "can be bypassed with a called shot at -5" or "does not protect against AoE/Explosion damage". Or use combinations of the above.

 

I've seen Ultron defeated a few times, mainly by shooting through an opening to destroy something non-adamantium on the inside. The Human Torch also did it in Secret Wars, by using a Nova Flame explosion that caused something inside Ultron to melt.

 

For a 350-point 'invulnerable robot', I'd buy 30/30 Hardened Resistant defenses, then an extra 15/15 Hardened Resistant PD and ED, only versus BODY damage. It'll be tough enough to avoid taking BODY, but it'll still take STUN (12 Stun on the average 12d6 attack), representing a jarring of the delicate internal components. Make sure to keep the DCV low as a balancing factor.

[Adventus]

Re: Robot with an adamantium shell?

 

I would recommend a vulnerability and/or a susceptibility to Magnetism. One of the main ways to manipulate Adamantium is thru Magnetism. This would also be a great limitation on his armor. If hit by a magnetic attack it goes right thru his armor, damaging internal components.

[Bluefire]

Re: Robot with an adamantium shell?

 

Now this is just off the top of my head but here goes.

 

Desolidification , Reduced Endurance (0 END; +1/2) (60 Active Points); Limited Power - Cannot pass through solid objects. Power loses about half of its effectiveness (-1), IIF (Focus admantium plating; -1/4). 27RP

 

Keep in mind that you need to buy a naked power advantage for Str affects real world. AND, you will need to get GM approval since this is a "Stop" power build.