Batman, the Disgustingly Powerful Ninja

[Metaphysician]

Re: Batman, the Disgustingly Powerful Ninja

 

To me the question is, do you build Batman as a Super or do you build him as a Heroic Level?

 

If you build him as Heroic Level, then you don't pay for any of his gear.

 

Problem: Batman is not, and hasn't been since almost his earliest days, a Heroic level character. He's as much a superhero as Superman.

[OddHat]

Re: Batman, the Disgustingly Powerful Ninja

 

Problem: Batman is not' date=' and hasn't been since almost his earliest days, a Heroic level character. He's as much a superhero as Superman.[/quote']

 

And a significant portion of his gear, even in his standard JLA adventures, is beyond what most GM's would allow as free tech in most campaigns.

 

Heck, he beats the heck out of Superman every few years in the comics. Supes is like an abused girlfriend at this point.

[st barbara]

Re: Batman, the Disgustingly Powerful Ninja

 

Well of course "Batman" is going to be disgustingly powerful ! You try playing a character a minimum of once a fortnight or so for 70 odd years and you will accumulate enough experience points to be disgustinly powerful too !

[Checkmate]

Re: Batman, the Disgustingly Powerful Ninja

 

I agree with Andrew. Don't include EVERY skill you've ever seen him use, high skill rolls (+ Overall levels) and the guy will have some clue about everything.

 

Instead of giving him all those science skills, and misc. skills he uses once, give him cramming.

 

I could make a very SCARY Batman, if I he were played in MY world. You see I don't agree with what used to be called the "arms race". In my world, Green Lantern would get his butt kicked my a Navy SEAL if he ever lost his ring. Batman has an 18 STR, 20 DEX, and a 4 SPD. Heck Spiderman would have about a 7 SPD and 32 DEX.

 

I think when you keep non-supers like Batman and Robin, The Joker, etc. out of the superhero range (above 20) everything else just sort of falls into place. Let's take a look at speed which is what a lot of people say where Hero System breaks down when you get to the upper levels:

 

Regular people (this includes basic cops, regualr military): 2 SPD

Cyclopse and most other non-speed powered Supers/ELITE Military: 3 SPD

Highly Trained Supers (Batman, Captain America): 4 SPD

Have powers that make them quicker (Wolverine, Creeper): 5 SPD

Nightcrawler: SPD 6

Spiderman: SPD 7

Wonder Woman: SPD 8

Martian Manhunter, Quicksilver: SPD 9

Flash: SPD 10

Superman: SPD 11

 

I think everything fits in nicely. You could adjust a few, I'm not sure Nightcrawler really deserves a 6, but you get the idea.

[Bloodstone]

Re: Batman, the Disgustingly Powerful Ninja

 

Please tell me you accidentally switched Flash and Superman on that list. I beg of you! Speed is all Wally has going for him! Think of the children!

 

In all seriousness, as in all things HERO, it's all about a sense of scale, both as it relates to your own campaign and how you want to model the character. Batman in one of his own books is an entierly different character from Batman in the JLA...

[Logan D. Hurricanes]

Re: Batman, the Disgustingly Powerful Ninja

 

...

Regular people (this includes basic cops, regualr military): 2 SPD

Cyclopse and most other non-speed powered Supers/ELITE Military: 3 SPD

Highly Trained Supers (Batman, Captain America): 4 SPD

Have powers that make them quicker (Wolverine, Creeper): 5 SPD

Nightcrawler: SPD 6

Spiderman: SPD 7

Wonder Woman: SPD 8

Martian Manhunter, Quicksilver: SPD 9

Flash: SPD 10

Superman: SPD 11

...

You've got guts, I'll give you that. You couldn't have posted a more controversial text here if you tried to stat out Jesus Christ.

 

 

 

Good luck!

[Guest WhammeWhamme]

Re: Batman, the Disgustingly Powerful Ninja

 

You can pull martial arts, obscure KS'es, exotic contacts, and all the rest out of a gadget pool now? I don't think so.

 

I suppose you could give him a cosmic VPP, 'Only For Batman-Related Shticks', but at that point, why not just buy the damn stuff outright?

 

Because, 100% iron clad guarantee, you WILL miss something. I miss things on characters _I designed_, where I (ought to) know every last aspect of what they should be able to do.

 

Of course, I'd try to boil it down to a "Bat-Schtick" pool, reserved mostly for:

 

a) Obscure/Overpowered Martial Arts Techniques (or rather, powers)

Precognition/Retrocognition/Clairsentience for Figuring Out Enough Of The Plot

c) Summon Appropiate Allies and Vehicles

d) Gadgets

 

and add in a physical limitation or power limitation (GM preference willing) to let him not be uber when he wouldn't be in the comics. (Not In Own Comic; -1/4?)

 

and then stat up as many things as I *could*. Then again, I do tend to the 'and just give him a dmn variable power pool, it'll only be used so he CAN do what he SHOULD do' as a design feature.

[assault]

Re: Batman, the Disgustingly Powerful Ninja

 

If you build him as Heroic Level' date=' then you don't pay for any of his gear.[/quote']

 

I once did a rough draft of Batman as at Detective Comics #27. He worked out nicely at 200 points.

 

I would guess about 250 if you made him pay for his gear, and maybe a bit more if you want to be a little more generous than I was.

 

But he was definitely Batman.

 

Of course, using the same approach, you can build Superman on 350, or better yet on 450.

[Bloodstone]

Re: Batman, the Disgustingly Powerful Ninja

 

Of course, using the same approach, you can build Superman on 350, or better yet on 450.

 

One such Superman write up curtesy of Susano:

 

http://surbrook.devermore.net/adaptionscomic/superman.html

[Teflon Billy]

Re: Batman, the Disgustingly Powerful Ninja

 

I think when you keep non-supers like Batman and Robin' date=' The Joker, etc. out of the [b']superhero range (above 20)[/b] everything else just sort of falls into place. Let's take a look at speed which is what a lot of people say where Hero System breaks down when you get to the upper levels:

I know you were talking about things in the context of your own campaign, but for Characteristics in 5th Edition, Superhero range (that is, beyond what a mundane human could possibly achieve) starts at above 30, not 20. 20 is just where to go any higher gets more expensive (you've reached the point of diminishing return so to speak)

 

Regular people (this includes basic cops, regualr military): 2 SPD

Cyclopse and most other non-speed powered Supers/ELITE Military: 3 SPD

Highly Trained Supers (Batman, Captain America): 4 SPD

Have powers that make them quicker (Wolverine, Creeper): 5 SPD

Nightcrawler: SPD 6

Spiderman: SPD 7

Wonder Woman: SPD 8

Martian Manhunter, Quicksilver: SPD 9

Flash: SPD 10

Superman: SPD 11

Again, I know this is probably what you've got for your personal campaign, but I think you've lowballed both Bats, Cap, Nightcrawler, and Spidey. I'd put Cap at minimum of 5 if not a 6, and how does WW rank higher than Spidey? o-0 He's repeatedly been remarked to be the most dexterous character in the Marvel Universe, as such, he's going to be quite a bit higher in the DEX dept than a mere 2 points above human maximums. Same with Nightcrawler (though he'd be inferior to Spidey). How does WW come close to matching this? I'd put her at a 6, maybe a 7. Same as where I'd put Supes (SPD 7).

 

Seriously, I think you're ranking of DC characters is seriously inflated. I might give MM a 9 mental speed, but not physical speed that high, I'd be hard pressed seeing him have a 6. And I'd give Supes a bunch of lightning reflexes to possibly have a faster reaction time than Flash or Quicksilver, but definitely not a higher speed.

 

TB

[Checkmate]

Re: Batman, the Disgustingly Powerful Ninja

 

I know you were talking about things in the context of your own campaign' date=' but for Characteristics in 5th Edition, Superhero range (that is, beyond what a mundane human could possibly achieve) starts at above 30, not 20. 20 is just where to go any higher gets more expensive (you've reached the point of diminishing return so to speak)[/quote']

Yeah and I don't agree with that part of 5th ed. I've thrown that right out.

 

Again' date=' I know this is probably what you've got for your personal campaign, but I think you've lowballed both Bats, Cap, Nightcrawler, and Spidey.[/quote']

A lot of people think I have, but my feeling is that if you make Cap, who is peak HUMAN condtion, and you're already estabished that you think 5th Ed. is wrong, peak human is SPD 4.

 

Not only that, but Cap and Batman don't really have powers, they're just peak human, so if I give them 5 or 6 speeds, people with minor speed that is a power have to be stuck up at 6 or 7. The Creeper with a 7 speed just doesn't seem right to me.

 

I'd put Cap at minimum of 5 if not a 6' date=' and how does WW rank higher than Spidey? o-0 He's repeatedly been remarked to be the most dexterous character in the Marvel Universe, as such, he's going to be quite a bit higher in the DEX dept than a mere 2 points above human maximums.[/quote']

Again in my world, human max is 20. Spiderman is not the most dexterous character in the Marvel Universe, he's not even close. There is a scrub villian named Cobra that is faster than him. At one point Spidey fought Wolverine and Spidey thought Wolverine might be as fast if not faster than him.

 

Same with Nightcrawler (though he'd be inferior to Spidey). How does WW come close to matching this? I'd put her at a 6' date=' maybe a 7. Same as where I'd put Supes (SPD 7).[/quote']

I have to admit, that I haven't read comics is quite some time, so some of my values might not be where they should now, but Wonder Woman was that fast. She was on the level of Supes and the rest.

 

Seriously' date=' I think you're ranking of DC characters is seriously inflated. I might give MM a 9 mental speed, but not physical speed that high, I'd be hard pressed seeing him have a 6. And I'd give Supes a bunch of lightning reflexes to possibly have a faster reaction time than Flash or Quicksilver, but definitely not a higher speed.[/quote']

Again if you read the older comics, MM was this fast He has been compared to Superman's speed many times. Superman IS faster than the Flash (discounting all the stupid "speed zone" crap they've come up with now), and Quicksilver is a slowpoke by comparison. Quicksilver tops out around the speed of sound (last time I read comics anyway).

 

Again all this is in my world. In my world if you were an energy projector, your SPD would probably be a 3 and your DEX would be around 13. I don't think people like Iceman could beat an Olympic gymnist at at acrobatics.

[Cantriped]

Re: Batman, the Disgustingly Powerful Ninja

 

I think primarially the problem isn't that thier trying to creat everything Batman has, or Everything Superman has, its a matter of Scale, for instance, I'm sketching out The Darkness (Top cow comic book character) and technially the Darkness can do jsut about anything so long as it screws people up, and he's Immortal (literally, he blew himself and an entire warehouse to hell in the comic and regenerated). he's the kind of person who'd rip Batman to shreds if they existed in the same world, but thusfar he only has about 220 points in Powers. he has an 80 point VPP, an Armor power, his most "iconic" offensive power, and a lifesupport and Regen for the immortality. The thig most important to remember when making any characer is KISS (Keep it Simple Stupid) a lot of thigs characters do in-game arn't nessessairially handeled via powers, but as SFX of a sucessful skill roll/characteristic roll. and just because Batman can hit hard dosn't mean ne has or needs a Strength of 30, or every gadget and skill he's EVER used, Just give him Cramming and a Gadget pool. anyway, thats my two cents sorr if I sound like an ***.

[Cantriped]

Re: Batman, the Disgustingly Powerful Ninja

 

(BTW, Batman is also pretty similar to the d20 Monk with gadgets and ****.)

[Susano]

Re: Batman, the Disgustingly Powerful Ninja

 

Yeah and I don't agree with that part of 5th ed. I've thrown that right out.

 

Hmm... that's going to make this debate difficult, then, isn't it? Since you've just stated you've decided to discard the common benchmark for superhuman stats used by most (one presumes) HERO players.

 

A lot of people think I have, but my feeling is that if you make Cap, who is peak HUMAN condtion, and you're already estabished that you think 5th Ed. is wrong, peak human is SPD 4.

 

Not only that, but Cap and Batman don't really have powers, they're just peak human, so if I give them 5 or 6 speeds, people with minor speed that is a power have to be stuck up at 6 or 7. The Creeper with a 7 speed just doesn't seem right to me.

 

Yes, but Cap's years of experience have to count for something. He (and Batman) are masters of mook mashing. A 4 SPD doesn't cut it, especially since a lot of agent types are going to have a 3. I'd say 5 for Cap and Batman.

 

Again in my world, human max is 20. Spiderman is not the most dexterous character in the Marvel Universe, he's not even close. There is a scrub villian named Cobra that is faster than him. At one point Spidey fought Wolverine and Spidey thought Wolverine might be as fast if not faster than him.

 

Meaning a normal human can't have above a 20? Even if they pay double?

 

Again all this is in my world. In my world if you were an energy projector, your SPD would probably be a 3 and your DEX would be around 13. I don't think people like Iceman could beat an Olympic gymnist at at acrobatics.

 

The problem here is "in your world," which sounds more like Wild Cards than the mainstream comics. Besides, who's to say the process of gaining superpowers also results in an overall increase of physical characteristics? I know that in my universe, I stated that the activation of the "metagene" lead to increased strength and reaction times (thus making many supers slightly stronger and faster than they normally would have been). Also, last I checked, Iceman and the rest of the X-men train in their Danger Room a lot, so allowing him to be physically fit, agile, and coordinated isn't all that far-fethced.

[Bloodstone]

Re: Batman, the Disgustingly Powerful Ninja

 

Superman IS faster than the Flash (discounting all the stupid "speed zone" crap they've come up with now)

 

Flash IS faster then Superman (discounting all the stupid "superman must be uber" crap they've come up with down through the years).

 

Now, losing the unnecessary tone, I can say with certainty that Wally West, the Flash, the Fastest Man Alive is faster then Superman. Signifigantly. I can't tell you how it was pre crisis or anything like that, as I really didn't read much DC back then. This is according to DC now, as of within the last few years. I can cite issue numbers if necessary.

 

And it's Speed Force for the record.

[Checkmate]

Re: Batman, the Disgustingly Powerful Ninja

 

Hmm... that's going to make this debate difficult' date=' then, isn't it? Since you've just stated you've decided to discard the common benchmark for superhuman stats used by most (one presumes) HERO players.[/quote']

This is true, but as long as we go by that premise when discussing, the numbers don't really matter it's all a matter of scale. I just don't think there has ever been a person in history that could pick up a Cesna Airplane, which if they had a 30 STR and pushed, they could.

Yes' date=' but Cap's years of experience have to count for something. He (and Batman) are masters of mook mashing. A 4 SPD doesn't cut it, especially since a lot of agent types are going to have a 3. I'd say 5 for Cap and Batman.[/quote']

But most agents aren't the ELITE so they would have a 2 SPD, and I have seen many times, where Thugs and Agents have gotten the drop on Batman and Cap. If you raise their SPD and DEX too much their typical enemies won't stand a chance.

Meaning a normal human can't have above a 20? Even if they pay double?

No if they pay double they can, but very few do, and it certainly wouldn't be in SPD.

The problem here is "in your world' date='" which sounds more like Wild Cards than the mainstream comics. Besides, who's to say the process of gaining superpowers also results in an overall increase of physical characteristics? I know that in my universe, I stated that the activation of the "metagene" lead to increased strength and reaction times (thus making many supers slightly stronger and faster than they normally would have been).[/quote']

I don't have a Metagene. I've never really defined why people can get powers. So by that theory, I don't see why learning how to do super magic or being born with the ability to shoot lasers from your allows you to speed up your reactoin time to something someone who has been training in combat for years (elite military forces, Olympic Athelets etc) can't achieve.

 

Also' date=' last I checked, Iceman and the rest of the X-men train in their Danger Room [u']a lot[/u], so allowing him to be physically fit, agile, and coordinated isn't all that far-fethced.

Yes but he also travels to different dimensions, and a lot of time not training as well as getting a late start in life. How would his training make him better at walking a balance beam, or floor routines than an Olympian who's trained their whole life?

 

I do things differently. A lot of people think they need to give Batman a 32 DEX and 7 SPD (don't laugh I've seen a lot of people go this high on the speed) becasue they think they need that to make him fight as well as he does in the comics. I reduce the stats and add more skill levels. It all comes out the same, so what's the differnce you ask? I feel skill levels better represent training. Stats also increase other incedentals that Skill Levels don't (Iceman and the balance beam for instance, or Batman with his 7 SPD running 35 MPH).

 

As far as the whole Wonder Woman, Flash, Superman thing, the point of this wasn't to debate who I thought was faster (although just because Flash can out run Supes, doesn't mean Flash has a higher SPD), I just threw in the first supers I could think of that would be close to that number.

[megaplayboy]

Re: Batman, the Disgustingly Powerful Ninja

 

well, in game mechanics terms, the only real downside to restricting humans to a 20 max stat is that most humans start out at 8 or 10. So, you're looking at a scale that runs from maybe 5 to 20, with the only significant break points being 5,8,10,13,15,18 and 20--that's only 7 gradations of ability within the term "normal" or "human".

If you look at DEX, it's slightly better--each point makes a difference in init, and every 2-3 points can mean a higher CV--but still the CV range is from 2 to 7--only about 4 points separate Bats and Cap from a "normal", who has a 1 in 6 chance to hit them before any skill levels are applied. Hand a gun with a built in +1 to an enforcer with a 12 DEX and 2 levels with guns, and Bats has to have 4 levels just on DCV to avoid unnecessary post-fight surgery.

 

I assume Bats would be limited to a 20 INT and PRE as well, since he's under 40.

[MCMaenza]

Re: Batman, the Disgustingly Powerful Ninja

 

As others have noted: campaign world context has a big bearing on what is considered the norm, high, etc. when it comes to speed. As long as the GM keeps his/her game world on a consistant level, then any characters created for that world can follow the scale. I usually subscribe to:

 

Regular people (this includes basic cops, regular military): 2 SPD

Elite military and agents (top end of normals): 3 SPD

Low end supers: 4 SPD

Average supers: 5 SPD

High end supers: SPD 6

Extreme end supers, most speedsters: SPD 7

Extreme speedsters: SPD 8

 

Anything on the 9, 10, 11 or 12 scale is normally unheard of. You might have a God or supreme alien life form that hits out into this range, but its rare.

[Metaphysician]

Re: Batman, the Disgustingly Powerful Ninja

 

Out of curiousity, Checkmate, how would you do Wuxia characters, or the various super-martial artists in comics, who are "not superhuman," in the traditional sense, and yet distinctly more capable than any real world human??

[Eosin]

Re: Batman, the Disgustingly Powerful Ninja

 

You've got guts, I'll give you that. You couldn't have posted a more controversial text here if you tried to stat out Jesus Christ.

 

 

 

Good luck!

 

REP for you in the morning! LMCLAO

[Eosin]

Re: Batman, the Disgustingly Powerful Ninja

 

This is true' date=' but as long as we go by that premise when discussing, the numbers don't really matter it's all a matter of scale. [/quote']

 

Here is where your whole premise derails. No two people here are going to agree on the benchmark for everything but most everyone bows down to "this is the generally accepted standards" when they want to make ... interesting assertions.

 

You really have several arguments tied up all in one and when someone pegs you on one argument, then you skip over as say "but see here I don't hold to that belief."

 

So, here are the arguments as I see them.

 

1. You don't like the HERO System standards and don't want to use NCM as written. Instead, you use a cap of 20/4 and don't see much reason why peak humans would go ahead and pay double for SPD or any other stat. [fine but it doesn't apply to other positions]

 

2. You think Supes is faster than the Flash but preface the statement with "and don't tell me anything about no stupid speed force." Hence, your position is already defeated since you know that the Flash is faster when you factor in the Speed Force.

 

3. You thinks QS is faster/more dexterous than Spidey but once again your retort betrays your knowledge. You site the Cobra as being faster than Spidey but not QS. Why? Cause he isn't faster than Spidey who is widely reckognized as the fastest character in Marvel (I did see Longshot surprise him once).

 

4. The most interesting argument is implied rather than stated ~ most games keep their supers within a 3 point SPD spread (occassionally 4 points), typically these break down as follows 4-7/8 SPD but maybe 5-8/9 or even 3-6/7. It doesn't seem that your game operates under such a premise?

 

Spidey, Cyclops, QS and Capt America could easily be in the same campaign but your version has has a 6 point spread in speed for characters who are roughly equivilently powerful. Though Spidey has the cheatinest powerhouse build known to man [Low level brick, speedster, martial artist with a passing strike]. I think it is a given that Capt America can take Quicksilver and that Cyclops would come out on top roughly 50% of the time but by your reckoning Cyclops nor Capt America don't even merit being on the same field as the low level speedster?

[Metaphysician]

Re: Batman, the Disgustingly Powerful Ninja

 

Eosin- I'd disagree with some of matchups, for various reasons, but otherwise, good post ( and even if I disagree on who would beat who, I don't disagree that all four characters are roughly the same power level ).

 

Checkmate- Out of curiousity, have you ever played the Aberrant game?? I think it might model the wide difference between human and superhuman better than Champions ( or any game that slices closer to actual comics, which blur the boundary routinely ).

[Checkmate]

Re: Batman, the Disgustingly Powerful Ninja

 

Wow most of your points totally missed what I was trying to say:

Here is where your whole premise derails. No two people here are going to agree on the benchmark for everything but most everyone bows down to "this is the generally accepted standards" when they want to make ... interesting assertions.

I'm not asking anyone to agree. I'm simply giving a frame of reference. I just told everyone when I say Human max I mean 20 not 30. You can think I'm a total loon, but at least you'll know what I'm talking about when I say human max.

 

You really have several arguments tied up all in one and when someone pegs you on one argument' date=' then you skip over as say "but see here I don't hold to that belief."[/quote']

Again, you are reading WAY too deep into the post and trying to find argument where there is none. I should never have posted the speed chart past saying Batman and Cap.

 

So, here are the arguments as I see them.

 

1. You don't like the HERO System standards and don't want to use NCM as written. Instead, you use a cap of 20/4 and don't see much reason why peak humans would go ahead and pay double for SPD or any other stat. [fine but it doesn't apply to other positions]

Exactly I don't like the NEW HERO System standards, I liked the 4th ed. And I didn't say I don't see much reason, I said it doesn't happen in my campaigns.

 

2. You think Supes is faster than the Flash but preface the statement with "and don't tell me anything about no stupid speed force." Hence' date=' your position is already defeated since you know that the Flash is faster when you factor in the Speed Force.[/quote']

Again, you're concentrating on the part of my post that I spent NO time thinking about. It was just to give generalizations. And as I've said, a hero can run faster without having a higher speed. From what little I know about the speed force Flash can run infinity miles per hour. Not much can run faster than that (assuming that is correct), but it really means nothing to the whole point of my post.

 

3. You thinks QS is faster/more dexterous than Spidey but once again your retort betrays your knowledge. You site the Cobra as being faster than Spidey but not QS. Why? Cause he isn't faster than Spidey who is widely reckognized as the fastest character in Marvel (I did see Longshot surprise him once).

What does this have to do with anything? I gave QS a higher speed right? Doesn't that mean by defualt I think he has a higher speed? I thought that would be self evident and didn't realize I'd have to explain to people that if I put a higher number next to their name I thought they had a faster speed. And spiderman isn't "widly recognized" take a look at the Marvel Superheroes game sometime and you'll see hunders of people with higher DEX than Spiderman. He's just the most popular fast guy.

 

4. The most interesting argument is implied rather than stated ~ most games keep their supers within a 3 point SPD spread (occassionally 4 points)' date=' typically these break down as follows 4-7/8 SPD but maybe 5-8/9 or even 3-6/7. It doesn't seem that your game operates under such a premise?[/quote']

Actually it does. most bricks are SPD 2 martial artists are spd 4.

 

Spidey' date=' Cyclops, QS and Capt America could easily be in the same campaign but your version has has a 6 point spread in speed for characters who are roughly equivilently powerful. Though Spidey has the cheatinest powerhouse build known to man [Low level brick, speedster, martial artist with a passing strike']. I think it is a given that Capt America can take Quicksilver and that Cyclops would come out on top roughly 50% of the time but by your reckoning Cyclops nor Capt America don't even merit being on the same field as the low level speedster?

Now you've finally gotten to the part of the post that was my point.

 

Totally wrong. How much formal training has Spidey and Quicksliver had in combat? Have either of them fought as much as Cap? No, this would give Cap MANY more skill levels, simulating his experience much better than simply raising his stats.

 

There are two ways to make someone a better fighter, the first would be to raise their DEX, the second would be add skill levels. Spidey fights well because he has a natural ability. he wasn't trained, his style came naturally to him reprersented by a high DEX.

 

Cap was trained to fight. He honed that training in the field. He isn't natually dexterous, he trained his body. Skill levels better represent this.

 

Please forget the whole speed chart I created. It is totally irrelevant. Anything past SPD 5 I just made up on the fly.

[Checkmate]

Re: Batman, the Disgustingly Powerful Ninja

 

Out of curiousity' date=' Checkmate, how would you do Wuxia characters, or the various super-martial artists in comics, who are "not superhuman," in the traditional sense, and yet distinctly more capable than any real world human??[/quote']

Sorry missed this before:

Actually I can't stand Wuxia so they would never be in my world.

 

most of the "Super-Martial Artits" follow the same rules. If their orgin is a trained human, they top out 20 DEX 4 SPD. Now off the cuff that sounds incredibly low, but consider that EVERYONE is built that way. Remember that Most supers in my world have a 3 SPD, and a lot of them only have a 2. This makes a martial artist with a 4 seem pretty fast.

 

As far as being more cabable than any real world human, powers used as skills, the ability to push (remember a 20 STR becomes a 30 when pushed), and high level skill rolls.

 

Don't forget, my players save TONS on Stats which they are able to put into skills and Skill levels.

 

Honestly, it all works out the same, just different avenues to get to the same place. It also keeps the speeds closer together so players don't get bored wihen running a combat. Too many times we've had the 8 Speed martial artist, the 5 speed brick and the brick gets bored waiting for his turn to come back around.

[Chuckg]

Re: Batman, the Disgustingly Powerful Ninja

 

Actually I can't stand Wuxia so they would never be in my world.

 

most of the "Super-Martial Artits" follow the same rules.

 

That's nice. That works absolutely fine for your game. It's your campaign, you can ban whatever you like.

 

Now how do you suggest that the *rest* of us model the wuxia-themed characters that *already exist*, in canon?

 

Edit -- and in all the official Hero 5e martial arts supplements.