How to Overthrow the Alien Overlords?

[Chuckg]

Re: How to Overthrow the Alien Overlords?

 

On the flip side, one should not taunt PCs by creating big shiney toys that they then are prevented, via plot fiat, from ever using.

 

At least, not in the serious sci-fi genre. (The four-color superhero genre has supervillain plot devices get locked in the evidence vault and never seen again quite often, but genre conventions differ from place to place, and so do player expectations).

[Guest HeroPink!]

Re: How to Overthrow the Alien Overlords?

 

I'm considering attempting to run my first PBEM/PBP hero game. I tend to prefer grim, gritty scenarios and since I recently watch War of the Worlds I've been considering an alien invasion setting. Rather than start with the initial invasion, I'd like to begin around 5 years after, with the planet devastated, only a little over a quarter of the populous still living and in the grip of the alien conquerors. The players will be young super-humans who are members of the resistance, finally old enough for their cell leaders to risk committing them to the field. This will prove to be a pivotal point; the resistance will finally see a glimmer of hope in succeeding where the Earth's mightiest heroes failed.

 

Question is: how?

 

I have an idea but I'm concerned that it may not be...I don't know...good enough. I mean really, if you're a player and you commit to a campaign and finally reach the end, you really don't want your first reaction to be: "that's it!?!"

 

So, with nothing more than the above information, how would you craft a scenario to bring about the freedom of the human race from alien oppression?

There's been some tactics talked here, and a metric b:hush::hush:tload of nits picked. But not much about the overall scenario. I think what you got to do is s:hush::hush:tcan the Champ U timeline. It stinks on ice anyway. Have the PCs be the very first supers ever. Something about the aliens' tech (stray radiation, air/water polution, whatever) is causing mutations/superpowers. The rebel govt. has caught this, found all (??) the supers, and hid 'em until "the oportune moment." Maybe the PCs are IT, maybe there's more supers; not many tho'. The time to strike has come and that's where you start the game. One of the suggestions made about logistics and infrastructure will serve for the MacGuffin - - - excuse please, I mean target

[Manic Typist]

Re: How to Overthrow the Alien Overlords?

 

On the flip side, one should not taunt PCs by creating big shiney toys that they then are prevented, via plot fiat, from ever using.

 

At least, not in the serious sci-fi genre. (The four-color superhero genre has supervillain plot devices get locked in the evidence vault and never seen again quite often, but genre conventions differ from place to place, and so do player expectations).

 

I'm not saying that fiat should be used. Although it would be hilarious to create these big shiny toys and then see the players' faces when they don't ACTUALLY lead to wholesale destruction... it would be cruel.

 

However, GM fiat for the sake of the majority of the party (against an obnoxious player) I believe is acceptable.

 

I thought we were talking about a 4-Color here?

 

Sorry guys, but I think ChuckG and I have managed to lay the specefic issue of the dangerous ex machnia possibilites of this "smart" Earth race vs. rewriting the canon, to rest.

 

Or, is there more that needs to be addressed?

[Chuckg]

Re: How to Overthrow the Alien Overlords?

 

I thought we were talking about a 4-Color here?

 

Sorry guys, but I think ChuckG and I have managed to lay the specefic issue of the dangerous ex machnia possibilites of this "smart" Earth race vs. rewriting the canon, to rest.

 

Or, is there more that needs to be addressed?

 

Whether or not the DM in question actually *is* going for 4-color, or serious sci-fi, or silly sci-fi, or whatnot?

[dbcowboy]

Re: How to Overthrow the Alien Overlords?

 

Couple things:

1) Again, no four colors campaign here. I think the original premise is totally not four color, there's too much initial loss and I think the campaign would have to start off with the initial hopelessness of the human's situation. While I doubt I could perform up to their standards, I'm interested something like X-Men Days of Future Past. I'm thinking more Iron Age I guess.

 

2) I haven't really considered the interaction issue (ie. shield blows up if hit with a fusion cannon, etc.). I'm inclined not to take that route. However, even if it was feasible to create some catastrophic effect like this, it would not necessarily follow that the resistance would use it. For instance, I had the idea that the agriculture enclaves would be guarded by alien warships landed nearby. Even if the resistance simply hit the thing with a smuggled nuke, they'd kill most if not all of the nearby human slaves. I can't see that as a sustainable strategy since, in the end, nobody wins. While I'm sure there would be some in the resistance who would advocate that approach (hmmm, that might make a cool subplot the characters have to deal with), as a whole it doesn't seem to result in anything they could call a "win". At this time, the closest I think I could come to this is would be if I used the idea that the alien's are completely unfamiliar with Magic and have problems countering it. So, to me, even though their situation is definitely desperate, rational minds would not necessarily say, "screw it, let's just kill ourselves and all the aliens on the planet". Sacrifice small number of humans to take out large number of aliens, yeah, I could see that but destroy the world? No, not by the resistance leadership as a whole.

 

3) At this point, I don't see a final solution being solely a military one, I just can't figure out how it would be possible. When I consider the kind of state I think the Earth should be in at the start of the campaign, I think it's safe to say that the Arcadia had to go in the initial alpha strike by the aliens. I have an idea how the aliens would have known where it was. Truthfully, I can see quite a number of Empyreans who were abroad being recalled to Arcadia prior to its destruction. But I agree that if it or some of the big Empyrean minds were still around then it would put the humans in possession of too much technology and that doesn't seem to fit with where the campaign would need to start. Frankly, I suspect whatever end goal I have in mind, players will come up with something I never thought of so I'd prefer to have several options available and not feel like I have to railroad them down one path. Also, after 5 years of occupation and loss of personnel and equipment, I'm inclined to think that resources will be tight. Very tight. I don't plan on the resistance having won many of the engagements in that time, and every time they loose they'll have lots personnel and equipment that is very hard for them to replace.

 

4) Heroes or no heroes? I personally like the idea of there having been heroes. Matter of fact, the PCs would have the option of being children of fallen heroes or villains. You know, I have a rough draft of text to set the tone for the campaign. I wouldn't mind getting some feedback on it, I'll try to post it later tonight.

 

5) Why don't other races invade now? Hmmm, well, what's left to conqueror? I suppose I'd prefer that the aliens holding Earth be a significant threat to any outsider. If that means that their own supply lines can't be as strained as I'd previously mentioned, well, so be it. Maybe in the recent years they've gotten factories going in several locations around the solar system. Like I said before, if it seemed like I'd need a huge, several thousand ship fleet to reasonably overcome Earth's inhabitants, then to occupy those ships now it might make sense to have them in the process of battling another nearby race. The races that make up this fleet would be from a completely different set of galaxies unknown to any inhabitants of the Milky Way.

 

Let me just say that I'm certainly open to changing some of the CU history to try to make this scenario work. I suspect it has to happen. It definitely negates the history from Galactic Champions. I'd like to preserve as much as possible but I'm open to changing some things.

 

Hmmm, maybe it would be easier to say what I think I do need to stay intact:

1) I need the Empyrean history to be relatively unchanged, at least up to this century.

 

Actually I guess everything after that is just personal preference. I'd prefer Dr. Destroyer, Mechanon, the Champions, etc. all have been there when the alien fleet opened up on Earth. But, unlike the previous alien threats, this would be the one that succeeded.

 

Maybe that would be a better question: what do you think would need to be different for an alien invasion to succeed where the previous ones failed?

 

I'm thinking attacking en mass. That was my original idea for these guys. They're lost in a remote part of the Universe, their numbers are large enough that they know they're going to have problems, here's a planet with a population relatively primitive compared to their own technology. It definitely has some threats with its super-powered population but they're few compared to the population as a whole. We think we can take them with acceptable losses, and then use this as a base to sustain ourselves until our own leaders can find us a way home. No other acceptable worlds have been found yet, we're running out of time, let's take this one while we look for more. All ships, attack!

 

Yeah, I'm not claiming that's a perfect setup, only what I've come up with so far. Again though, what do you think it would take for an invasion to succeed?

 

Edit: Oh and no time travel either to make it so it never happened. No annoying tachyons and deflector dishes or any other Star Trek'esque solution. It happened, Earth lost, now the PCs have to deal with it.

[bigdamnhero]

Re: How to Overthrow the Alien Overlords?

 

I think this sounds like a cool campaign idea overall. The central problem as I see it is that if your aliens are tough/advanced/smart/etc enough to beat all of Earth's heroes, it's major villains, the Empyreans, etc all together -- how are a handful of PCs supposed to take them out? If you build the aliens up as being SO powerful, you risk painting yourself into a corner where the only way to beat them is through some big Deux Ex McGuffina.

 

Some possibilities:

 

1. The PCs are just plain tougher than all Earth's previous supers: give the PCs cosmic-level powers and let them stomp bugs until they run out of bugs to stomp. Fun for awhlie, but seems like the novelty would wear off quickly.

 

2. The aliens found some kryptonite-surrogate that killed off all the previous heroes, but the PCs are somehow immune to it (either accidentally or by design).

 

3. The aliens expended so many resources conquering Earth that now they're too week to hold it. (Where have we seen THAT parallel in recent history?)

 

4. The aliens have a vulnerability/succeptability that wasn't discovered until after the conquest was over; now the PCs can exploit that weakness.

 

A couple other considerations: Since it's only been five years, are there any former-heroes surviving in hiding somewhere? And what have Earth's villains been doing in the interim? You might want to check out Great White Games' "Necessary Evil." I haven't read/played it myself, but I've heard it's pretty good and it has some similar ideas.

 

http://www.peginc.com/Games/Savage%20Worlds/Necessary%20Evil.htm

 

One other thought - the way you've described these aliens, they have nowhere to retreat to, nowhere to go if they get kicked off Earth. So a negotiated withdrawal is not an option, and they'll all be fighting to the death as well. If that's your intent, fine; just be conscious that you're eliminating most of the "non-military" solutions I can think of.

 

 

bigdamnhero

[dbcowboy]

Re: How to Overthrow the Alien Overlords?

 

I think this sounds like a cool campaign idea overall. The central problem as I see it is that if your aliens are tough/advanced/smart/etc enough to beat all of Earth's heroes' date=' it's major villains, the Empyreans, etc all together -- how are a handful of PCs supposed to take them out? If you build the aliens up as being SO powerful, you risk painting yourself into a corner where the only way to beat them is through some big Deux Ex McGuffina. [/quote']

 

I think that's exactly the corner I feel I've painted myself into. My first stab at getting around it was having them sneak attack with greater number of ships than the Earth forces were aware of. For instance, after say 30 of their ships had gathered in the solar system, they realized that Earth was beginning to become nervous, so new stragglers were directed to a position outside Pluto's orbit. Once the attack order came, all ships hyperspaced into near orbit but rather than the small number of ships the Humans were prepared for, there were 10x or 20x or some-odd number greater than that. Earth gets caught with its shorts down, etc, etc.

 

That's the only way I can think to have the aliens have advanced tech, yet not so advanced that they are completely un-fightable by a resistance movement. They had surprise and used it extremely well. The resistance at this point would never engage in open combat. I think of them as if they were in occupied France in WWII. More sabatoge, theft of resources they need to keep going (food, some weapons, etc.), that kind of thing.

 

I suppose in the end what's important is the tone and feel of the campaign when it starts. How the world got to that point? Well, I'd hate to stretch believability too far.

[Karmakaze]

Re: How to Overthrow the Alien Overlords?

 

I am im a post-apocalyptic post-alien-invasion setting right now. In the setting, the alien invaders arrived in one mega-ship and had slightly underestimated the hero poulation of earth. They won, barely, but their ship was destroyed, along with many of their resources. Fifty years later a group of PCs have gotten organized enough to start trying to mop up the remaining alien overlords in the pockets they've been holding... There is a MacGuffin we're all after that is supposed to be a very powerful weapon for us, but we're also making allies with other outposts of humanity as we go.

[dbcowboy]

Re: How to Overthrow the Alien Overlords?

 

This is the text I have so far to set the tone for the campaign. It's meant to be from someone in the same position as the PC's.

 

Sometimes as I lie awake at night I try to remember what it was like not to be afraid all the time. When I went to school in the morning, Mom and Dad came home in the evening, and we ate dinner together as a family. When you could walk outside carefree instead of continually scanning the sky for danger, constantly running from one cover to the next. It’s like a dream now. A sweet and beautiful dream whose memory fades as soon as you wake up but leaves you sad and crying though you can’t remember exactly why.

 

So much of the world is broken now. Not just the cities and the machines but the people too. It wasn’t just because their armies were defeated. Their heroes fell that day and sometimes I think humanity’s spirit fell with them. When it was all over, when less than half the human race was still alive, that was all they were. Alive. Today people are alive but I’m not sure any of them are really living. That’s what I think we need to do, the only way we’ll finally win, is to give the human race a reason to really live again.

 

It’s affected all of us. Every time I’ve watched a squad head out, you can see it on their faces. Sometimes you can just look at a man and know he won’t be coming back. He’s empty; that will to live is all used up. After 5 years of fighting one loosing battle after another many of us just have nothing left inside. I’ve even seen it in our leaders. Not so much in Mr. Z but then he doesn’t let anyone get close enough. But James, behind his eyes, I can see the void growing. If our leaders succumb, the ones who’ve held us together for this long, we’re finished.

 

Soon it will be our turn to walk out those doors. When the cities burned and the aliens came, they said we were too young. We still are. But it’s our world too and there are so few left to fight. Some of us will spill our blood, just as those who’ve fought before us. But if any alien bothers to look at it, they’ll find that though it may be young, it’s just a red as any humans.

 

And they will have paid a MUCH higher price to claim it...

 

Edit: I should add, I'm considering naming the campaign Young Blood, hence the references to youth and blood in the text.

[dbcowboy]

Re: How to Overthrow the Alien Overlords?

 

This is the history I had put together so far. These are the events the Humans would have learned from the initial meeting with the aliens or from their own records.

 

In a distant part of the Universe, the nine races of the Alliance are locked in a multi-galaxy-spanning conflict in with higher dimensional beings invading this Universe. Of the 10 galaxies that make up the aliens' empire, one was completely lost. The final stages were in place to abandon it entirely. Each galaxy had at least one massive hyperspace gate, capable of propelling ships between galaxies (smaller versions were used within a galaxy for inter-galactic travel). Three of the alien races have psychic abilities (matrix abilities as they call them); at the highest level they are absolutely terrifying. Of the trillions upon trillions of inhabitants of the empire, only a handful of each race has reached such a level. Once the galactic exodus was complete, the greatest energy controllers of the Alliance would initiate the dreaded space-fold, collapsing the overrun galaxy and utterly destroying it. Never in the history of the races had this horrible matrix ability been used, but never before had the situation been so grave. If the creatures were not stopped, the entire Universe might fall.

 

But the invaders mounted a massive suicide wave of attack ships that threatened to decimate the defending fleet and allow them to spread to the gate's destination galaxy. So with over 150,000 Alliance ships still in the doomed galaxy, the leaders of the alien alliance ordered the space-fold take place immediately before the invader's taint could further spread. The fleet would receive the retreat order with only minutes to spare, but it was hoped some would be able to make it though the gate in time. The aliens on Earth don't know what happened to those ahead of them, nor those behind, but they were just entering the event plane of the galactic hyperspace gate when the space-fold's effects were felt. Instead of arriving in their target galaxy, they wound up in ours, with ships spread across an area over 30 light-years wide. If any more survived the desperate flight from the doomed galaxy, they were swept much farther abroad. The last stragglers made their way to the Sol system over 3 years ago and no sign of others has been seen since.

 

Several ships appeared near the Sol system and initial contact with the humans was peaceful. Over the course of a few weeks, more of the survivors made their way to the system to link up with their comrades. After a few months their numbers had mounted and world leaders began to worry. It was never clear exactly why they chose to attack, but by the time they did, their force and firepower was overwhelming. The combined might of Earth's heroes, villains and military forces was only able to destroy a pitiful few of the aliens' battle cruisers.

 

Though their final tally was low, the human's actually did repulse the first attack. The alien's ensured such would not happen a second time. The orbital bombardment unleashed touched every continent. No major city was spared. The weeks of conflict that followed were merely a formality; the war was already decided. It only lasted that long because the aliens could not afford to further obliterate the remaining humans they would need to support their vast fleet.

 

Today the aliens have established huge farming colonies on Earth to feed their numbers. Meanwhile their support ships sit in orbit or out in the asteroid belt, working feverishly to keep the ships of the fleet maintained. A large portion of the fleet has spread out to find other worlds, ones that might have greater technology and possibly the knowledge of where their home galaxies lie, if not the means to reach them.

 

Less than 2 billion humans survive today compared to the 6 billion that called Earth home on the eve of the attack. Most are confined to the farms where they till crops to feed their alien masters. They live in tent cities and makeshift buildings often on the outskirts of their decimated cities. Their overseers reside in ships landed on the planet's surface or fortresses built since the occupation.

 

The resistance numbers around 1 millions worldwide. Most are ordinary people still seeking a way to drive the aliens from their world. The early organization came from the surviving nations’ militaries and UNTIL forces. But by the end of the first year of occupation they were sustained by an unexpected source: the remnants of VIPER, now under the command of a new Supreme Serpent, the former would-be conqueror of the world, Dr. Zerstoiten the Destroyer. Or what is left of him.

 

VIPER's independent and widespread cell structure had allowed more of its hidden resources to survive the alien bombardment than either UNTIL or the nation's militaries. From these bunkers around the world, the secret bases of heroes, or the hideouts of villains the resistance reorganized, dug in and prepared for a long, long fight. And that was exactly what they got.

 

I notice I still have the part about an initial attack being repulsed, if I stick with the overwhelming surprise attack idea that would probably have to change.

[Alverant]

Re: How to Overthrow the Alien Overlords?

 

To put my own two cents worth, I have some ideas for some twists in your campaign.

 

1) Earth started it. If aliens were unknown on Earth (or plausibly deniable) then the sudden appearance of clear proof that Earth and humanity is not special would throw a lot of strongly held beliefs into question. When that happens, some people will go to any length to defend them. It's possible in such a situation a rogue general tried to put a nuke on one of the alien ships. The armada retaliated and decided we were barbarians who needed to be reeducated or annihilated.

 

2) The aliens want us to join them. In a galactic example of battered spouse syndrome, the aliens are telling us they did what they did for our own good and that we deserved it. And we'll continue to be punished until we come to our senses. Some of the other races were treated the same way and are now a bunch of submissive yes-people to the bigger ones. If both ideas are used, they would have manufactured an excuse instead of receiving one.

 

3) The aliens used bio weapons that triggered mutations, intentionally creating superbeings they could then dominate mentally into their grunts. But an unknown factor in human DNA makes us more resistant to their mind control. The scattered alien fleet does not have the resources to go to a Plan B so its not fighting at top efficiency.

 

4) Not all the aliens agree. The initial assult might have been started by someone with a hot head and committed their forces without permission of the rest. The resulting power struggle and political maneuvering is leaving Earth under the sword of Dameclues (sp) when it's decided Earth will either be left alone or destroyed. How the characters act would determine what that is.

 

5) This was actually a plot of a book by the guy who played Quark on DS9. Earth was on the verge of developing a technological breakthrough that would have been a threat. The aliens attacked to destroy the device. This device would have literally destroyed the planet (it somehow makes a sun explode, that's where the Orion, Crab, and Horsehead nebulas came from). They decided it was better to have 2/3s of the human population destroyed than 3/3s and themselves. Now they have to institute order to make the best of the situaion.

[Manic Typist]

Re: How to Overthrow the Alien Overlords?

 

Ok, there is one thing you need to consider very carefully with this setup. Considering how this fleet is unexpectedly stranded, you are going to need to put in some real thought on how their interactions between various ships, species, and ranks exist. Because, look at BSG: factions and schisms can emerge. Under these conditions, discipline WILL fray unless some monumental force keeps them all in line, all of one will.

 

So, THIS might be the key for Earth.

[dbcowboy]

Re: How to Overthrow the Alien Overlords?

 

Ok, there is one thing you need to consider very carefully with this setup. Considering how this fleet is unexpectedly stranded, you are going to need to put in some real thought on how their interactions between various ships, species, and ranks exist. Because, look at BSG: factions and schisms can emerge. Under these conditions, discipline WILL fray unless some monumental force keeps them all in line, all of one will.

 

So, THIS might be the key for Earth.

 

Yeah, Chuckg was one of the first to mention a regime change as a possible solution. More I thought about it, 5 years stuck on some primitive rock could really eat at the invaders. I'm thinking factions within the alien's ranks will have developed, and I'm not sure exactly that "regime change" completely describes one of the possible solutions I've pieced together but it's pretty close. It seemed to make sense why it might be an option now rather than in the beginning of the war.

 

Feedback everyone has provided so far has been fantastic; I really appreciate it.

[BoneDaddy]

Re: How to Overthrow the Alien Overlords?

 

If they are from a higher gravity planet, and as such use higher artificial gravity in the ships, then spending several years stranded here could have the effect of weakening their systems enough that they can't realistically go home again. Changes the stakes dramatically.

 

(Sci-fi source - Heinlein's "The Moon is a Harsh Mistress.")

[bigdamnhero]

Re: How to Overthrow the Alien Overlords?

 

If they are from a higher gravity planet, and as such use higher artificial gravity in the ships, then spending several years stranded here could have the effect of weakening their systems enough that they can't realistically go home again. Changes the stakes dramatically.

 

(Sci-fi source - Heinlein's "The Moon is a Harsh Mistress.")

True, but wouldn't that sort of adaptation take more than the 3-5 years proposed here?

 

 

bigdamnhero

[BoneDaddy]

Re: How to Overthrow the Alien Overlords?

 

9 months on the Mir was crippling for some cosmonauts, especially the ones who didn't exercise enough.

[Peregrine]

Re: How to Overthrow the Alien Overlords?

 

Another question to ask and answer - after the PCs lead Earth's forces to victory, whither the surviving invaders? Do they leave (by some means), or do they, Macross-style, become integrated into the postwar Earth?

[Chuckg]

Re: How to Overthrow the Alien Overlords?

 

1) Earth started it. If aliens were unknown on Earth (or plausibly deniable) then the sudden appearance of clear proof that Earth and humanity is not special would throw a lot of strongly held beliefs into question. When that happens' date=' some people will go to any length to defend them. It's possible in such a situation a rogue general tried to put a nuke on one of the alien ships. The armada retaliated and decided we were barbarians who needed to be reeducated or annihilated.[/quote']

 

Only if you're using bad action movie plotting. IRL, there are multiple and separate reasons why this scenario is as implausible as heck.

 

1) Generals simply do not have the arming keys for nukes. (And this is *more* true overseas than in the US -- the US is actually the least paranoid country about its generals going rogue. You can imagine what China feels like about that problem, and the lengths they go to to guard against it.)

 

2) Nuclear launch officers undergo the most rigorous psych eval imaginable. Given that your scenario posits the sort of irrational fanatic who blows stuff up when confronted with too much opposition to his religion or ideology... ummm, the sort of nutjobs who do abortion clinic bombings do not, contrary to oodles of bad movie stereotypes, attain 4-star general rank. This isn't just a guy who's a little cracked, this is somebody who is completely freakin' deranged, Osama bin Laden style. Osama bin Laden does not pass psych evals given by anybody who is not a complete idiot.

 

2a) Even at DEFCON-1, which is the only state of alertness at which it is possible to arm and fire a nuke without Presidential authorization, 4-star generals (the individual theater commanders, in fact) are the lowest rank with the arming codes.(*)

 

3) Even assuming you got past 1 and 2, there is no such thing as a nuclear missile that can be armed by a single man.(**) The absolute minimum, even for the President, is two. (Only the President has the authority to order a launch under normal circumstances... but to guard against the possibility that he's having a stroke or a fit, his launch order must be confirmed by one of several people on a very short list of names. The commanding general of NORAD is one of those names, but only in the event that the US is attacked first.)

 

3a) Even assuming that some general has gone psycho -- and we have already violated the suspension of disbelief in assuming this much -- they still don't personally turn the keys. Launch officers do. Are *they* all psycho as well? Note -- in the US, it takes a minimum of two to five people (two for land-based silos, five for subs, last I heard) to all turn the keys in unison before the bird can fly.

 

And one of the things they pick those guys for is the ability to tell when their chain of command has lost it, and to refuse to launch without further confirmation from the rest of the chain of command. That's why we use silo officers and keys at all. If we wanted the birds to be able to fly simply when one guy pushed a button, we'd only *HAVE* one guy and one button. The entire point of having humans in the loop at every level is that *ALL* of them have to go insane before insanity can launch the nuke.

 

Sorry, but this particular cliche has always really griped the heck out of me, even if it is a movie classic as far back as 'Dr. Strangelove' and 'Fail-Safe'. It's a *campy* classic, and unless you want a campy game, don't use it, that's my point.

 

 

 

(*) Exception -- captains of ballistic missile submarines, who are obviously intended to be thousands of miles away from HQ when it's time to launch, and don't have time to go back.

 

However, the safeguard *here* is that the missiles in submarines are not capable of being *targeted* by the submarine crew -- the missile warheads are pre-programmed using a geographic coordinate system that is *not* standard latitude and longitude, and the missile sub's crew doesn't have the map key. If the missile has to be retargeted at sea, they have to get the target coordinates via radio (or ELF) from the shore, and the coordinates are a purely arbitrary string of #'s to the sub crew. HQ is picking the target, the sub is merely going "ok, we're launching at target coordinates 12-23-999-1-slash-7-alpha-5-5-5... whereever the hell that is."

 

i.e. -- a boomer has only two choices -- launch (assuming all five officers w/ keys go turny simultaneously) at their pre-programmed targets (which are God only knows where), or don't launch. The third choice, 'launch at a target we pick', isn't really possible for them.

 

(**) Add -- while there may be backpack nukes, and this does get you around the 'multiple officers/entire chain of command must go insane', we run into the same problem of 'and you got the Presidential arming code how'? They're obviously not stored in the armed condition.

 

As well as a new problem... the aliens cannot plausibly misinterpret one lone idiot with a backpack or terrorist-built nuke as an official attack by the government or governments of Earth, given that said governments have a much bigger and better nuclear *arsenal*, and don't have to go for the improvised or pony bomb in a bucket approach.

 

Like, if half the US Navy attacks me, I can be quite sure that the US government authorized it. If six sailors in a patrol boat shoot up my waterfront, it is much more plausible to assume that six guys have just gone nuts, as opposed to immediately leaping to the conclusion that the President has ordered a strike on my coastline... 'cause if he really had ordered one, well, he's got a lot more than six guys in a patrol boat.

[bigdamnhero]

Re: How to Overthrow the Alien Overlords?

 

9 months on the Mir was crippling for some cosmonauts' date=' especially the ones who didn't exercise enough.[/quote']

Yeah, but that was Zero G (technically micro-G). I would think it would take longer in say 1/2G, especially assuming the aliens lead a somewhat more active life than was possible in the cramped quarters of Mir?

I'm asking, I'm not pretending to know.

 

Sorry' date=' but this particular cliche has always really griped the heck out of me, even if it is a movie classic as far back as 'Dr. Strangelove' and 'Fail-Safe'. It's a *campy* classic, and unless you want a campy game, don't use it, that's my point.[/quote']

Amen, brother! I thought I was the only one that hated that old groaner.

 

 

bigdamnhero

[Chuckg]

Re: How to Overthrow the Alien Overlords?

 

IIRC, zero-gee causes actual deterioration of the bones (something to do with proper calcium replenishment), which was the main problem faced by the Mir guys.

 

Living in half your usual gravity, however, wouldn't do a damn thing to yoru skeleton, it would simply make your muscles all flabby. You might need reconditioning or physical therapy when you go back home, but you should always be able to go back home. "A Moon Is A Harsh Mistress" was mainly talking aobut the problems of people *born* in low-G environments going on down -- Manny was operating in a gravity field six times what he was used to.

 

Note also that if you're using anything but the rubberiest of SF, aliens who can breathe Earth's air have to have evolved on planets at least roughly equivalent to size as Earth, which means they'll have roughly equivalent gravity.

[austenandrews]

Re: How to Overthrow the Alien Overlords?

 

Note also that if you're using anything but the rubberiest of SF' date=' aliens who can breathe Earth's air have to have evolved on planets at least roughly equivalent to size as Earth, which means they'll have roughly equivalent gravity.[/quote']

How do you figure? I'm not doubting, just genuinely curious.

[Chuckg]

Re: How to Overthrow the Alien Overlords?

 

Air pressure. If your lungs can handle Earth's atmospheric pressure, then your home planet's atmospheric pressure has to have been comparable. Your planet's surface atmospheric pressure depends on several factors, chief among them being its mass.

 

(Although Earth did have that oversized moon to skim off a lot of our atmosphere in its formative period -- without it, we'd be Venus II.)

[Chuckg]

Re: How to Overthrow the Alien Overlords?

 

Plus a more general logic -- specifically, "if you are capable of walking on the surface of Earth without a space suit and without dying, then your home planet was obviously quite similar to Earth".

 

Now, I *can* think of a possibility where a race could be entirely at home in our atmosphere but totally unable to handle our gravity -- but that possibility is 'the race has long since stopped living on the surface of planets and is a zero-gee spacer culture'. (i.e. -- they evolved on a planet quite like Earth, but it's been so long since they've lived on it they've lost the ability to adapt to its gravity. They've still obviously kept the same air and air pressure in their habitat life-support systems, though.)

 

But the problem with *this* is that zero-gee spacer cultures do not invade and occupy planets like Earth. They'd simply be strip-mining our asteroid belt. AAMOF, given that Earth totally lacks the ability to stop any hypothetical Spacer culture from stealing all the valuable minerals in our asteroid belt, on Titan, etc, etc., ripping off systems without space-flight in this manner could be considered the ultimately profitable and safe form of space piracy.

[dbsousa]

Re: How to Overthrow the Alien Overlords?

 

I love this thread. Here is the game I now want to run:

 

In 1999, Alien colonists invade. Earth's Mightiest Heroes fight back on the ground, while the Ambassador takes the fight to Outer Space.

 

 

The Ambassador is killed, but in the process he cripples the fleet. The fleet can no longer leave the system or even send FTL communications. Worse, their manufacturing capabilities were destroyed, leaving them unable to repair or replenish the remaining ubertech. Finally, the flagship was destroyed, killing most of their Science Officers and the command structure. The 100 year colonization plan is now doomed to failure. One Battleship Commander assumes command of the rest of the fleet and revises their plans. realizing that every passing year will make them weaker, he launches an all out strike on the population centers, destroying every major city on Earth, and forcing the remaining population to surrender in a matter of months.

 

 

Two generations pass.

 

Earthlings are now second-class citizens on their own planet. a dozen alien cities have risen from the rubble, but instead of the gleaming centers of impossible architecture and beauty they had planned, they are built in the native way, with glass and steel. The grandchildren of the colonists are coming of age, most of them born to a life of privilege and celebrity that few humans have ever known, no more equipped to run the planet than Paris Hilton is to run the chain of hotels that bears her name. What remains of the Orbital Fleet is in disrepair, maintained to monitor the movements of the Earthling resistance, and to drop giant rocks on their heads. Those Earthlings that have not found work serving the aliens directly, or working in the farms or mines, have retreated to the wild places of the earth. All "domesticated" Earthlings are scanned yearly for any sign of superpowers, and those who show any aptitude are terminated.

 

There is hope, however. Some of the young Aliens think of themselves as Earthlings, having known no other home, and have aided the resistance. And an underground railroad exists, to find those Earthlings with powers before the aliens, and send them to the wild places. Finally, there are still enclaves around the world, where Earth scientists try to decipher the mysteries of the alien tech. The colonists are fat, weak, and increasingly apathetic, waiting to be rescued by the next ship to arrive, in 50 years. And the earthlings have found a new weapon with which to strike back...

 

You.

[Manic Typist]

Re: How to Overthrow the Alien Overlords?

 

Here here Dbsousa!

 

Also, on the regime bit: Don't even bother with a regime change, necessarily. Just a BREAKDOWN. Factionalization and infighitng, but no top dog or united movements.