CorpCommander Posted February 6, 2006 Report Share Posted February 6, 2006 It seems to me that Piercing should be an advantage. It modifies other attacks but when I was reading Dark Champions last night it is listed as an attack and a special power. Actually it is probably better looked at as an adder, no? Why am I not getting this? --Pete Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edsel Posted February 6, 2006 Report Share Posted February 6, 2006 Re: Why is Piercing a power? I use it as an adder. It really works best as a custom adder in Hero Designer anyway. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eosin Posted February 7, 2006 Report Share Posted February 7, 2006 Re: Why is Piercing a power? Adder. The whole looks like a duck scenerio. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CorpCommander Posted February 7, 2006 Author Report Share Posted February 7, 2006 Re: Why is Piercing a power? What is a duck scenario? (yes, I am expecting this thread to get hijacked by jokes rather than serious responses at this point...) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blue Jogger Posted February 7, 2006 Report Share Posted February 7, 2006 Re: Why is Piercing a power? It seems to me that Piercing should be an advantage. It modifies other attacks but when I was reading Dark Champions last night it is listed as an attack and a special power. Actually it is probably better looked at as an adder, no? Why am I not getting this? --Pete Back, in the dawn of man, Champions III to be precise, Piercing was a power (this was before the rule about Adders) and was equilvant to an Energy Blast or Killing Attack that only went towards piercing defenses. This was important when you had something that could take down a super but not turned an unarmored foe into paste but not a STUN-only attack. I think duck scenario is "If it look like a duck, quacks like a duck, it needs another 10 minutes in the microwave." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CorpCommander Posted February 7, 2006 Author Report Share Posted February 7, 2006 Re: Why is Piercing a power? Back' date=' in the dawn of man, Champions III to be precise,[/quote'] Repped for your historical knowlege of the rules extending back to the mid eighties! --CC Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edsel Posted February 7, 2006 Report Share Posted February 7, 2006 Re: Why is Piercing a power? What is a duck scenario? If it looks like a duck, acts like a duck and quacks like a duck. It's probably a duck. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vanguard00 Posted February 7, 2006 Report Share Posted February 7, 2006 Re: Why is Piercing a power? If it looks like a duck' date=' acts like a duck and quacks like a duck. It's probably a duck.[/quote'] Or Nighthawk. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AmadanNaBriona Posted February 7, 2006 Report Share Posted February 7, 2006 Re: Why is Piercing a power? If it looks like a duck' date=' acts like a duck and quacks like a duck. It's probably a duck.[/quote'] In the case of Piercing, it's really more of a platypus.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thia Halmades Posted February 10, 2006 Report Share Posted February 10, 2006 Re: Why is Piercing a power? If it looks like a duck, and quacks like a duck, it's really an egg-laying mammal? Stupid sidhe. :smack: By Piercing did you mean Armor Piercing (advantage) or Penetrating (advantage) or something else again? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eosin Posted February 10, 2006 Report Share Posted February 10, 2006 Re: Why is Piercing a power? If it looks like a duck, and quacks like a duck, it's really an egg-laying mammal? Stupid sidhe. :smack: By Piercing did you mean Armor Piercing (advantage) or Penetrating (advantage) or something else again? Piercing or Resistant Piercing. It is detailed in Dark Champions but it originated in earlier versions of Champions. Ranther than fractionally change defenses, it simply pulls off a set number of DEF. [FREX: Resistant Piercing: +3 Pips would lower the targets total rPD by 3 points.] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AmadanNaBriona Posted February 10, 2006 Report Share Posted February 10, 2006 Re: Why is Piercing a power? If it looks like a duck, and quacks like a duck, it's really an egg-laying mammal? Stupid sidhe. :smack: By Piercing did you mean Armor Piercing (advantage) or Penetrating (advantage) or something else again? Well, letsee... It acts like an Adder, works like an Advantage, but is written up as a Power.... I still maintain the Peircing is the Hero system's Platypus. And a mighty useful one too Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tasha Posted February 10, 2006 Report Share Posted February 10, 2006 Re: Why is Piercing a power? Don't think of Piercing as a limited version of AP or Penetrating. It is actually built like a limited EB or RKA (only to soak defenses, Hardened Defenses ignores). That is why it is a power. I would imagine that if Steve thought it would work better as an adder or Advantage he would have done so. As he showed with Regeneration, Instant Change and Total Life support; he is not afraid to change something if it make sense to do so. No matter what was done "traditionally" with previous versions. I like Piercing. Piercing makes it easier to make weapons that can go through lots of armor, but only do relatively light damage. A very useful power for building guns. Though lots of piercing can make for VERY bloody attacks. tasha Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AmadanNaBriona Posted February 10, 2006 Report Share Posted February 10, 2006 Re: Why is Piercing a power? Don't think of Piercing as a limited version of AP or Penetrating. It is actually built like a limited EB or RKA (only to soak defenses, Hardened Defenses ignores). That is why it is a power. I would imagine that if Steve thought it would work better as an adder or Advantage he would have done so. As he showed with Regeneration, Instant Change and Total Life support; he is not afraid to change something if it make sense to do so. No matter what was done "traditionally" with previous versions. I like Piercing. Piercing makes it easier to make weapons that can go through lots of armor, but only do relatively light damage. A very useful power for building guns. Though lots of piercing can make for VERY bloody attacks. tasha Quite honestly, I like Peircing too. I liked it when it showed up in Champions 3, used it extensively in my ironmongery for my Star Hero campaign, and am glad to see it back in canon. It actually works more like the way "real" armor peircing attacks work than AP does. It doesn't work as an advantage at all. It essentially IS an adder, but because it can be an adder for ANY attack, its easier to frame as a power. Its still the platypus of the HERO system tho... always has been... neither one thing nor the other... But I like Platypi too Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CorpCommander Posted February 10, 2006 Author Report Share Posted February 10, 2006 Re: Why is Piercing a power? Since no character or power gets played until it gets through Hero Designer it is a custom adder for now for my games. ...Or will be when I get rolling again. I've got a lot of interested players but getting them to be interested in the same schedule is like herding cats. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eosin Posted February 10, 2006 Report Share Posted February 10, 2006 Re: Why is Piercing a power? I like Piercing. Piercing makes it easier to make weapons that can go through lots of armor' date=' but only do relatively light damage. A very useful power for building guns. Though lots of piercing can make for VERY bloody attacks.[/quote'] RP works significantly better for Heroic level games than strait ole AP. It is easier to nudge and tweak to just the right level. We never abandoned RP in my group because we primarily play heroic games (FH & DC). Still, It acts like an Adder and doesn't monkey with damage ratios when it is applied as an Adder. As it stands now, add a single pip of piercing onto your Mongo 2d6 HKA sword and suddenly your damage dropped becuse the STR to boost each DC went to 6.25 (IIRC) instead of 5. (Note: DC is in my bedroom with my sleeping wife, so I am just recalling what I read, rather than verifing that it is indeed the case). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CorpCommander Posted February 10, 2006 Author Report Share Posted February 10, 2006 Re: Why is Piercing a power? RP works significantly better for Heroic level games than strait ole AP. What is RP? I don't have the book in front of me nor my PDF version of Sidekick. Are you refering to DC's piercing? It is easier to nudge and tweak to just the right level. We never abandoned RP in my group because we primarily play heroic games (FH & DC). Still, It acts like an Adder and doesn't monkey with damage ratios when it is applied as an Adder. As it stands now, add a single pip of piercing onto your Mongo 2d6 HKA sword and suddenly your damage dropped becuse the STR to boost each DC went to 6.25 (IIRC) instead of 5. (Note: DC is in my bedroom with my sleeping wife, so I am just recalling what I read, rather than verifing that it is indeed the case). That is a very interesting side effect and one I had not thought of. Yet another reason I like Hero - efficient designs always have tradeoffs and Hero makes you balance so many things - it never gets boring. Thanks Eosin, that was really quite interesting. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dynamo Posted February 10, 2006 Report Share Posted February 10, 2006 Re: Why is Piercing a power? What is RP?Resistant Piercing would be my guess. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eosin Posted February 10, 2006 Report Share Posted February 10, 2006 Re: Why is Piercing a power? Resistant Piercing would be my guess. Yeap Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vanguard Posted February 25, 2006 Report Share Posted February 25, 2006 Re: Why is Piercing a power? I like Piercing. Piercing makes it easier to make weapons that can go through lots of armor, but only do relatively light damage. A very useful power for building guns. Though lots of piercing can make for VERY bloody attacks. We're finding that is exactly the case in our DC-esque game. We're extremely glad that it was brought back. We tend to keep the Piercing levels light, since you've so eloquently pointed out that it can get really bloody otherwise. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vanguard Posted February 25, 2006 Report Share Posted February 25, 2006 Re: Why is Piercing a power? Eosin, I believe the altered STR Min to boost damage is an optional rule for Fantasy Hero (although nothing says you can't port it over). We still use the 5 pnts thing in our DC game and although the only weapon so far that has Piercing is a set of guns, it hasn't really changed the combat dynamic. I'm going to ask the GM if I can add 2 points of it to my HtH weapons so after a couple of game sessions, I can come back and let you know how badly, if at all, it altered things. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eosin Posted February 25, 2006 Report Share Posted February 25, 2006 Re: Why is Piercing a power? Eosin, I believe the altered STR Min to boost damage is an optional rule for Fantasy Hero (although nothing says you can't port it over). We still use the 5 pnts thing in our DC game and although the only weapon so far that has Piercing is a set of guns, it hasn't really changed the combat dynamic. I'm going to ask the GM if I can add 2 points of it to my HtH weapons so after a couple of game sessions, I can come back and let you know how badly, if at all, it altered things. I think that was actually a hold over from previous eds. I just looked it up (across 10 pages of text) and on page 407-408 we recieved comfirmation. Thank you for pointing out the error. Makes RP much easier to use in Heroic. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vanguard Posted February 25, 2006 Report Share Posted February 25, 2006 Re: Why is Piercing a power? More then welcome. Glad I could help. Also glad that my posting here didn't kill the thread. I seem to be "Vanguard Thread Killer" sometimes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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