Anita Blake Vampire hunter

[Supreme Serpent]

Re: Anita Blake Vampire hunter

 

Now for the plug. Go forth and read Jim Butcher's Harry Dresden books. A witty protagonist, if a bit unwilling to bend his ethical stance (Harry, make the deal with the mob boss threatening your life; you can always screw him over later. You are the wizard in the relationship!) for much of anything. He seems to gain a favor or two in each book, but they're more reasonable than the ones in the ABVE books; okay, Dresden is friends with the local werewolf pack, but they're all in college and are still figuring out how to live as weres themselves. And Dresden seems to p*** off some unpleasant people in each book, and they don't ever quite seem to go away. And he never seems to have much money to work with, or a working car (magic tends to frag tech), or a decent relationship, or.... Get the idea? A bit more balance to the slowly improving mage in Chicago, as opposed to the world-bestriding colossus in St. Louis.

 

:thumbup:

 

I fourth (?) this recommendation. I haven't read any of the Anita Blake stuff (and from what I've heard even before this thread, probably never will), but the Harry Dresden stuff is very entertaining.

[AmadanNaBriona]

Re: Anita Blake Vampire hunter

 

:thumbup:

 

I fourth (?) this recommendation. I haven't read any of the Anita Blake stuff (and from what I've heard even before this thread, probably never will), but the Harry Dresden stuff is very entertaining.

 

I'll have to look into these books.

Good thing too, as while I'm still willing to read the AB books, I am getting into her Mary Suedom now (Last one I finished was Blue Moon). I'll probably end up getting the rest of the series for my GF, assuming I can find 'em used, and will read them, but I expect that I won't bother rereading the last several books.

 

Don't let this thread dissuade you from reading the first 8 books or so.. they really are pretty good, especially to mine for ideas.

 

I blame the downward spiral of an otherwise good series on two factors...

Lack of Authorial Discipline ("The characters are out of my control"????... Hogwash!) and appeasing the fanbase. LKH seems to have succumbed to the same syndrom that effects all too many vampire writers... once the Gothy pagan pervert crowd adopts the series all sense and self control goes out the window in favor of appeasing the masses of "Angst and Porn" fans.

Give her a few years to catch up to Anne Rice and next thing you know she'll be writing a series about Jesus.

Probably from Mary Magdalanes POV.

With lots of sex.

And a little bondage.

And it'll be boring to read.

[Vondy]

Re: Anita Blake Vampire hunter

 

:thumbup:

 

I fourth (?) this recommendation. I haven't read any of the Anita Blake stuff (and from what I've heard even before this thread, probably never will), but the Harry Dresden stuff is very entertaining.

 

My suggestion: read the first four or five and then quit, pretending the others did not exist. Because they don't. There are only four or five Anita Blake books. The others are Anita fanfic porn pastiches.

[Susano]

Re: Anita Blake Vampire hunter

 

How long did Takahashi stretch out the Ranma 1/2 relationships?

 

Bad analogy. Takahashi has done this in (most) everything she writes -- UY, Ranma, Inuyasha.... It's either marketing, or an unwillingness to bring anything to a conclusion.

[Powerhouse]

Re: Anita Blake Vampire hunter

 

Commenting on the write up:

 

Looks good for a first draft. Bucking up speed to 4 is a good idea though given how deadly Anita tends to be (and Edward, who is an incredible killer, thinks she'd good).

 

Let's see... commenting on her combat skills, while she's a pretty good fighter (including blades), she has a preference for guns she might be a +2 Combat levels and +1 with guns, +1 Combat skill levels and +2 with guns, etc. I do think that her martial arts list might be a little too extensive as well. Still, a very good first stab with lots of stuff that I would have missed.

 

Hmm.. also, might want to beef her com up to at least 16. She's noted to be pretty attractive and it seems like everyone wants to sleep with her. Above 18 though probably isn't a good idea since she isn't drop dead gorgeous either.

[Mutant for Hire]

Re: Anita Blake Vampire hunter

 

Bad analogy. Takahashi has done thing in everything she writes -- UY' date=' Ranma, Inuyasha.... It's either marketing, or an unwillingness to bring anything to a conclusion.[/quote']

Maisson Ikkoku is a classic counter example. Classic soap opera brought to a sense of conclusion. Characters get married, settle down, etc.

[Rapier]

Re: Anita Blake Vampire hunter

 

My suggestion: read the first four or five and then quit' date=' pretending the others did not exist. Because they don't. There are only four or five Anita Blake books. The others are Anita fanfic porn pastiches.[/quote']

 

As much as I hate to admit it. I disagree.

 

I'm REALLY not fond of the last few books (as specified above). However, I DID read them all (well at least except for the porn bits of the last few books I skipped).

 

If nothing else, its a good lesson on what to avoid. It's not even that it devolved to porn. The problem is that LKH devolved ALL the story to around a single point. In this case sex. The books would be just as bad if they revolved entirely around socialism, homosexualism, politicism, environmentalism.

 

Don't get me wrong. I've read a LOT of books (a LOT doesn't even cover my reading...buttload? universe-load? Now we're gettin close). Any time a book starts to force a viewpoint/stance down your throat its bad.

 

One of my favourite books of all time is the Jungle (Upton Sinclair). The first 3/4 of the book is incredible (if you don't have a really weak stomach). The last 1/4 of the book is so blatantly, hit-you-in-the-head-with-a-shovel-socialist that it all falls apart.

 

I had similar reactions to the Wizard of Oz.

 

If you REALLY want to write porn, write porn. If you want to write a treatise on socialism write it. Don't try and hide it behind the veneer (sp?) of a ficitonalised novel.

 

If those are your beliefs at least have the cajones to come out and claim them in the bright light of day. For good or bad, and at time I will admit I (at times) hit y'all with (a brick) the fact that I'm an "alternative lifestyler." We are all different. If you can't accept that fact, the problem is with you and not us. If you want to write about how socialism is better than capitalism I will read it. I'm not going to dismiss anything out of hand. But I WILL make up my mind based on what I've experienced and read.

 

Oh wait. This was about LKH. Oh well. I had to get that out!

 

For the record: some of my best friends find sex between 2 men to be totally icky. I respect their viewpoint. I don't like redheads. It doesn't mean that everyone that likes redheads is going to hell. We are just people. Isn't there room for all of us in this world?

[Rapier]

Re: Anita Blake Vampire hunter

 

Looks good for a first draft. Bucking up speed to 4 is a good idea though given how deadly Anita tends to be (and Edward, who is an incredible killer, thinks she'd good).

 

Let's see... commenting on her combat skills, while she's a pretty good fighter (including blades), she has a preference for guns she might be a +2 Combat levels and +1 with guns, +1 Combat skill levels and +2 with guns, etc. I do think that her martial arts list might be a little too extensive as well. Still, a very good first stab with lots of stuff that I would have missed.

 

Hmm.. also, might want to beef her com up to at least 16. She's noted to be pretty attractive and it seems like everyone wants to sleep with her. Above 18 though probably isn't a good idea since she isn't drop dead gorgeous either.

 

SPD is subjective. However, I agree that in my campaign her SPD should be at least 4, if not 5. I would probably give Edward and Anita the same SPD and give Edward some Combat Reflexes. Give him some quick draw etc to even the playing field a bit. There are many times in the books where Anita is considering "drawing-down" on Edward and notices that he is just standing there waiting for his decision if "this is the day." That is a MAJOR point in their interaction and I would hate to lose it.

 

I agree with the levels. The problem with these write-ups is that you can't just write up Anita. You have to write up Edward and all the rest of the guys. You need her in context. Would I give her +2 with pistols? Heck yeah...unless some of the others had +4. Like I said, its all about the setting and not just Anita. Its context.

 

COM 16 seems about right. She's a hotty. Part of the problem with devolving characters to stats is that there isn't much differentiation between the girl-next-door hot and the porn-star hot. Both may have a 16 COM but the "wood-factor" is quite a bit different.

[Mutant for Hire]

Re: Anita Blake Vampire hunter

 

I don't like redheads. It doesn't mean that everyone that likes redheads is going to hell. We are just people. Isn't there room for all of us in this world?

Please ignore the red X the Redhead Brigade has scrawled on your door. Just please make sure your will is in order.

[Enforcer84]

Re: Anita Blake Vampire hunter

 

I heard it argued years ago this had happened with the first triumvirate. LKH had written herself into a corner with no where to go. Looking at wikipedia, I see she's now in a second triumvirate, has gained a new werebeast lover(s?), and otherwise is going in circles plot-wise. Power-wise she's just going up and up....

 

Sounds a little like Dragonball....

Sounds alot like DragonBall. Now if she'd just have increasingly powerful progeny....

[Rapier]

Re: Anita Blake Vampire hunter

 

Please ignore the red X the Redhead Brigade has scrawled on your door. Just please make sure your will is in order.

 

You think something scrawled on my door is gonna stop me!?!

 

HA! I know it's my Pa dressed up in a monster suit scaring the rest of the villagers!!

[Vondy]

Re: Anita Blake Vampire hunter

 

As much as I hate to admit it. I disagree.

/rant snipped

 

You're welcome to disagree. The number of books either of us has read is irrelevant to our respective and subjective opinions and tastes. I'm of the opinion than an author creates an implicit contract with their readers when they create a serial character / franchise series. The first four or five books were a promise to the readers stating what the series would be: a supernatural action/detective story with romantic/sexy subplots. She broke it big time. Or, if one prefers niceties, she failed to deliver on the promise. Yes, an author has a right to make changes in their series, but those changes should be meaningful in a story or character sense, and should be done with consideration for the audience who has placed their entertainment in your hands. The reader has invested. And successful series writers know this. You can and should vary your formula, but shattering it entirely on a whim is a good way to alienate readers who will move on to writers they can trust (few authors are good enough to merit unrequitted loyalty).

 

I got through NIC (which I skimmed; had to look it up as its been a while). The first four or five books were inspired. BB was odd (a nice change of pace in some ways), but her true colors as a soapy-porn writer peaked through a teensy bit, and I felt she had an "off-book." (not horrible, just missed some notes). She went from inspired to hack in the middle of book 6 (its the one where I said: she's in a nose dive, but I'll by the next one to see if she can pull out), and book 7 was an Anita romance-porn fanfic with borning sex, bad lighting, and a funked out 70's skin-flick soundtrack. Hence, I dropped her like a hot rock. And then she committed the mortal sin of the self-obsessed artist: she accused large numbers fans of not understanding her art and being prudes when she inverted her formual with little warning and they subsequently proposed she hadn't delivered on her promise.

 

I read a lot and don't have time to waste on hacks. I have little patience for writers who waste my time (mean spirited and subjective (?): maybe, but it is my time and my entertainment), and am not inclined to forgive writers who don't feel they have to consider their audience and deliver on their promises when writing. In my sixth grade essay class "audience" was one of the key points. In every composition class I've taken since "audience" has enjoyed the same prominence. She changed the audience she was writing for in mid-series and alienated a lot of otherwise impressed and loyal readers. It was underhanded whimsy.

[Vondy]

Re: Anita Blake Vampire hunter

 

Please ignore the red X the Redhead Brigade has scrawled on your door. Just please make sure your will is in order.

 

A like 'em tall, athletic, dusky, dark haired, and dark eyed. But red heads are nice creatures, too. Its blondes I can't stand.

[Rapier]

Re: Anita Blake Vampire hunter

 

You're welcome to disagree. The number of books either of us has read is irrelevant to our respective and subjective opinions and tastes. I'm of the opinion than an author creates an implicit contract with their readers when they create a serial character / franchise series. The first four or five books were a promise to the readers stating what the series would be: a supernatural action/detective story with romantic/sexy subplots. She broke it big time. Or' date=' if one prefers niceties, she failed to deliver on the promise. Yes, an author has a right to make changes in their series, but those changes should be meaningful in a story or character sense, and should be done with consideration for the audience who has placed their entertainment in your hands. The reader has invested. And successful series writers [i']know[/i] this. You can and should vary your formula, but shattering it entirely on a whim is a good way to alienate readers who will move on to writers they can trust (few authors are good enough to merit unrequitted loyalty).

 

Actually, I don't think we disagree at all. I TOTALLY agree with you. My point was that I don't think you should necessarily stop reading an author simply because one or two stories didn't go quite the way you thought they should. You should look at a whole body of work. Did LKH step over the edge? In my opinion, yes. However, that is not meant to say that noone would like the books I thought were over the edge.

 

Just because I (or we) didn't like the series after book 5 doesn't mean someone should not give it a go. Heck, I know plenty of girls that would squirm in their seats and would re-read the books I found tiresome. It's not necessarily bad-porn. As Romance-Novels go its pretty good...its just not my cup of ale.

[sinanju]

Re: Anita Blake Vampire hunter

 

Thank you for your opinion but you didn’t answer the original question.

 

Actually this goes out to most of the people who have posted in this thread.

 

Why is everyone so venomously in hate with these books?

I happened to have enjoyed all of them.

 

Three words: BAIT AND SWITCH.

 

The series started off as supernatural mysteries with a kick-*** heroine. They've turned into abominably bad porn with bad line-editing and little or no editorial cutting of any sort Anita (the author's alter ego) turned into Mary Sue. Everyone loves her; the author's new husband's alter ego (Micah) waltzed in and took over the books while her ex-husband's alter ego (Richard) turned into a whinging sadist when he isn't an overgrown crybaby.

 

The mystery element gets short shrift because it cuts into the page count devoted to (bad) BDSM and kinky (badly written) sex. Then the bad guys get stomped by Uber-Anita who never even breaks a sweat doing so. Character assassination is rampant.

 

The series has become unadulterated crap; abominably, abysmally, aggressively awful.

 

There are, of course, people who still like them. They're entitled to their opinions, however misguided.

[Mutant for Hire]

Re: Anita Blake Vampire hunter

 

It's a classic case of SAS- Successful Author Syndrome. An author sells well, the author starts to believe their own hype and genius, the editors stop editing them even when they clearly need someone to tell them their work is crap. Anne Rice is another example of that. There are countless others.

 

Every writer needs a group of proof readers who need to go over their work with a critical eye and to be brutally honest. And you need an editor who is willing to do the same. Actually, a few writers don't need it, but sadly few writers have that level of self-discipline and even they aren't hurt by having a critical list of proof readers.

 

There are a number of flaws in the Anita Blake series that have been so well covered by others. In a franchise series you need to watch out for certain things and the editors of the series didn't stop the writer from making a good number of them. At least with her newer series she's set the theme up clearly from the start, even if she's going in directions I prefer not to.

[Vondy]

Re: Anita Blake Vampire hunter

 

It's a classic case of SAS- Successful Author Syndrome. An author sells well, the author starts to believe their own hype and genius, the editors stop editing them even when they clearly need someone to tell them their work is crap. Anne Rice is another example of that. There are countless others.

 

Every writer needs a group of proof readers who need to go over their work with a critical eye and to be brutally honest. And you need an editor who is willing to do the same. Actually, a few writers don't need it, but sadly few writers have that level of self-discipline and even they aren't hurt by having a critical list of proof readers.

 

There are a number of flaws in the Anita Blake series that have been so well covered by others. In a franchise series you need to watch out for certain things and the editors of the series didn't stop the writer from making a good number of them. At least with her newer series she's set the theme up clearly from the start, even if she's going in directions I prefer not to.

 

Ed McBain AKA Evan Hunter actually wrote out his contract with his readers and put it up next to his desk. He also listened to his editor, who served as an actual editor (as opposed to a publisher who doesn't edit). The ironic thing is, as a writer, he's one of the few who didn't actually need the help.

[AmadanNaBriona]

Re: Anita Blake Vampire hunter

 

Reading some rather thoughtful posts here.

In general I adree with VDM about changing the "promise" of the series... but I can't say that she's for certain actually breaking the promise to her readers. At least not all of them...

I'd almost be more inclined to think that shes playing directly to her fan base... at least the vocal ones.

The goth/kink/BDSM/Alt/Pagan crowd has a relatively small number of fantasy and Sci fri authors that incorporate elements of the subculture in with any sort of panache and without making them the bad guys. Hence they tend to go absolutely raving fannish over a few authors or series of books. LKH. Anne Rice. Jacqueline Carey (Kushiel trilogy). Heck.. even John Norman (I had managed to mostly forget about Gor till I got into the public scene).

 

I'm gonna go out on a limb here and guss she met her new husband in the scene. Her writing seems to be drawing off the "honeymoon phase" that comes in a new kinky relationship, where you just want to evangelize about how great it is to be doing all the sh*t you're doing and loving it.

[Black Rose]

Re: Anita Blake Vampire hunter

 

I'm gonna go out on a limb here and guss she met her new husband in the scene. Her writing seems to be drawing off the "honeymoon phase" that comes in a new kinky relationship' date=' where you just want to evangelize about how great it is to be doing all the sh*t you're doing and loving it.[/quote']

And this just goes to prove that I haven't been paying all that much attention to LKH. I didn't even know she had gotten remarried!

 

My best old ex-friend (don't ask) Tim and I used to define the separate books in this way:

 

Me: "Hey, she's mentioned the new guy's junk four times in the last twelve pages. I guess this one is 'Anita Blake, P**** Hunter'."

 

Tim: "Not to be confused with 'Anita Blake, Pecs Hunter'."

 

Me: "Or 'Anita Blake, Hair Hunter'."

 

Tim: "True, true."

 

I personally find the series to be really good from 'Guilty Pleasures' to 'Lunatic Cafe', good from there until 'Blue Moon', and somewhat tolerable from that point on, provided you skip the sex scenes. Don't get me wrong, I love sex. A lot. A whole lot. More than you think. But if I want erotica I'll browse the erotica section. I want supernatural mystery with a hot, smart-alecky quick-shooting dame.

 

Not 'The Claiming of Laurell K Hamilton'.

[Rapier]

Re: Anita Blake Vampire hunter

 

Not 'The Claiming of Laurell K Hamilton'.

 

Maybe Fabio should do her next cover?