Medieval Farming Villages

[Glupii]

I am in the process of working up the starting village of a new campaign. And I am trying to figure out how large the area needs to be.

 

The area is a flat land surrounded on three sides by a narrow band of foothills and severe mountains beyond that. On the forth side is a cliff leading down to the sea. While the community most certainly gets some benefit from being on the sea, it is not their main form of subsistance. That would come from the farms.

 

I was thinking of a village of about 300 folks and about a dozen farms, each run by an extended family having about 8-12 able bodies workers. Each farm would grow at most 2 corps with most growing one. Each farm would have a cow or two and maybe some chickens but I was thinking one farm would specialize in Chickens, pigs, and maybe some dairy cattle.

 

Beyond the farm would be a Sheep Herder that kept a flock grazing in the hills most of the time. I didn't think the hills I was considering would support more than one flock.

 

The area is mostly subsistance and does very little trading outside the community. It does have a Lord and Manor but beyond that there is very little in the way of outside influence.

 

OK for my questions that I need help with:

 

1. How big should the average farm be?

2. How many cows would be needed to supply dairy (Milk and Cheese) for this area?

3. How big would the overall flat area need to be to support what I am looking for?

 

I have never been savy on details of farming being a city boy. Any help on this would be appreciated.

[Vondy]

Re: Medieval Farming Villages

 

Based on your population estimate this is a fairly large village. If we assume fifty households (~6 people each), evenly divided between cottars (~5 acres ea.), half-villeins (~15-20 acres ea.), and villeins (~30+ acres ea.), then you're looking at about 750 acres for the peasants to farm and a like number that they farm for the lord (as a rule of thumb, unless he's minimized his own acreage (demense) in favor of more pasture for revenue yielding crops). This acreage does not include a normative amount of pasture and or wilderness beyond the crop land. In a well established region this would be more pasture and less wilderness. In a less established the opposite. To support a village this size you're probably looking at close to 3,000 total acres - a sizable fief indeed, and one that would be the province of a fat-cat knight with significant military obligations (several men at arms at least) in return. As for cows, I'm not sure how many would be needed for dairy needs, but sheep are a better flock overall unless you have vast tracts of grazing land. They produce wool (for clothes and sale) as well as milk and require less acreage overall. Goats are also a good choice in this regard, but they each everything in sight. If its a frontier manor then pigs are an excellent choice because they can root around in the woods with minimal supervision and still produce leather and meat.

[Glupii]

Re: Medieval Farming Villages

 

Wow! I seriously underestimated my size. Perhaps I need to scale back my Village by a bit. And the cattle I was not looking at raising as a food source. I was thinking they would each farm have 2 or three cows they breed amongst each other and the cows only reason would be for dairy. The main animal crop (?) would be sheep and pigs. Perhaps some goats but not many. See, I am too much the city boy. I didn't even know sheep produced milk. Is that what they did in ancient greece? I know they raised alot of sheep due to the land being what it was.

 

Now to find out how big 3000 acres is.

 

thanks for the help.

[Vondy]

Re: Medieval Farming Villages

 

Wow! I seriously underestimated my size. Perhaps I need to scale back my Village by a bit. And the cattle I was not looking at raising as a food source. I was thinking they would each farm have 2 or three cows they breed amongst each other and the cows only reason would be for dairy. The main animal crop (?) would be sheep and pigs. Perhaps some goats but not many. See, I am too much the city boy. I didn't even know sheep produced milk. Is that what they did in ancient greece? I know they raised alot of sheep due to the land being what it was.

 

Now to find out how big 3000 acres is.

 

thanks for the help.

 

Flock! I initially put crop in my post and then edited it. In ancient greece goats and sheep were the primary flocks (and milk producers). That was the case with many civilizations. Cows take a lot of grazing space and don't provide a renewable source of cloth. On the other hand, Oxen are ideal for plowing, though the villeins (and some of the industrious half-villiens) would probably be the one's who could afford to support them. A cottar certainly couldn't (he doesn't have the land for it). Those that had them would probably hire them out when their own acres (and the lord's) were ploughed - further enhancing their purses.

 

As for size: which part of the middle ages. For a village in the latter middle ages this would have been middlin. In the early middle ages it would have been quite large. On the other hand, unless you're actually running middle-ages Earth, there's no reason not to tweak it for your own ends.

[gojira]

Re: Medieval Farming Villages

 

I did a quick Google search for "Medieval farm" and found this link:

 

http://www.hyw.com/books/history/Agricult.htm

 

Pretty close to what Von-D Man is saying, but it's got some more facts and figures in there for you.

[Mutant for Hire]

Re: Medieval Farming Villages

 

Medieval Demographics Made Easy

 

This is a must-read for anyone putting together an agrarian society.

[LordGhee]

Re: Medieval Farming Villages

 

This is cool also

 

http://www.rpglibrary.org/utils/meddemog/

 

this you can do a country

 

Lord Ghee

[LordGhee]

Re: Medieval Farming Villages

 

forgot base on med dem made easy

 

Lord ghee

[Curufea]

Re: Medieval Farming Villages

 

3,000 acres = 12,140,570 square meters.

[Erkenfresh]

Re: Medieval Farming Villages

 

Thanks for the links guys. I'll be needing this info!

[Rage]

Re: Medieval Farming Villages

 

also, remember that sheep and cattle can be farmed on the same pasture easily, as the sheep and cattle eat different parts of the grass, cattle IIRC will eat the higher parts, while sheep can ground graze. So, you can pretty much say that if properly used a pasture can support sheep and cows in a ratio of about 5:1. (depending on farming practice. It could easily be more, if you teach your cattle to eat bark and tree leaves. Something which is often done in certain parts of NZ.)

[Rapier]

Re: Medieval Farming Villages

 

Medieval Demographics Made Easy

 

This is a must-read for anyone putting together an agrarian society.

 

WOW. I definately bookmarked this page. I'll have to revisit some of my FH campaign stuff.

 

Did you take a look at the support values chart? I'm not sure I agree with all of the numbers. 1 tavern/pub for a town of 400? That seems awfully low to me. Maybe that's just me and my fiction. Every town has some kind of tavern/pub and a town of 400 would certainly be able to support more than one considering the role a pub played in town society.

 

Similar with blacksmiths. You are not guaranteed a blacksmith until the town reaches 1500 in population?

 

180 people could live and thrive in an agrarian society in a single square mile?

 

I'm not saying that *I* have done any research that disproves any of this. I'm just saying that the numbers seem to be a little off to me. Maybe I just read too much and authors tend to paint things in a rosey tone.

 

Anyone done any hard research or had any kind of experience? I spent less than 72 hours total in my life on a farm. What do I know of how much produce/pasturage it takes?

[LordGhee]

Re: Medieval Farming Villages

 

Thease sites are based on hard data, a gamer friend of mine is an anthropoigist (sorry spell) and look at them.

 

just remmeber if you use oxen to plow and do not need to shoe horses and use a wood plow a blacksmith is not needed much.

 

in the 1920-1930 a working farm in Ok. where my family is from was 160 acres to 320 and families could support themselves. (in that time peorid 60% of the wage earners in the US made 200 a year. with a doctor 2500$ and Mae West earning the most in 1932 320,000$. ( much to Randolf Hearst dismay!)

 

Try to find info did not the old boards have a discussion on this??

 

Lord Ghee

[Mutant for Hire]

Re: Medieval Farming Villages

 

Did you take a look at the support values chart? I'm not sure I agree with all of the numbers. 1 tavern/pub for a town of 400? That seems awfully low to me. Maybe that's just me and my fiction. Every town has some kind of tavern/pub and a town of 400 would certainly be able to support more than one considering the role a pub played in town society.

Look at the terminology used. Towns are a thousand and above. We're talking villages below a thousand. Villages did not necessarily have taverns. Among other things, farmers tended to do their own brewing.

Similar with blacksmiths. You are not guaranteed a blacksmith until the town reaches 1500 in population?

The big question to ask is: how often did the average person (read: farmer) go to the blacksmith and how much work did they need done? The numbers here are rules of thumb about how many people you need until you get a steady business.

 

Also, I would think that you would also end up looking at regions. In a collection of villages with a population adding up to 1500, you'd find a single blacksmith. Given how the villages were densely arrayed, that isn't that crazy a concept.

I'm not saying that *I* have done any research that disproves any of this. I'm just saying that the numbers seem to be a little off to me. Maybe I just read too much and authors tend to paint things in a rosey tone.

If you can find any numbers to contradict that, be my guest. So far I have not been able to find any major criticisms of the work.

[Vondy]

Re: Medieval Farming Villages

 

If you can find any numbers to contradict that, be my guest. So far I have not been able to find any major criticisms of the work.

 

All of the books I have read discussing this topic and similiar ones support the numbers of your link. A village of a few hundred people was largely self-sufficient and peasants did most of the work themselves. Unless the village was on a throughf-are with traffic a few hundred people would not generally support a tavern or a blacksmith (let alone the proverbian fantasy novel / RPG inn). A mill to be sure, but with alewives, people who did their own slaughtering, and cheese-making, and weaving, and house raising and the like most of the "professions" were only sustainable in very large villages/small townships or larger settlements. Most goods they provided that the villagers would need could be obtained on market day at the fair.

[mikesama]

Re: Medieval Farming Villages

 

Look at the terminology used. Towns are a thousand and above. We're talking villages below a thousand. Villages did not necessarily have taverns. Among other things, farmers tended to do their own brewing.

The big question to ask is: how often did the average person (read: farmer) go to the blacksmith and how much work did they need done? The numbers here are rules of thumb about how many people you need until you get a steady business.

 

Also, I would think that you would also end up looking at regions. In a collection of villages with a population adding up to 1500, you'd find a single blacksmith. Given how the villages were densely arrayed, that isn't that crazy a concept.

If you can find any numbers to contradict that, be my guest. So far I have not been able to find any major criticisms of the work.

 

As far as blacksmiths go, you can always have something akin to the wandering smiths of Celtic Ireland. Thier anvil was a relativly small head on a nearly 6 foot iron spike that they would hammer in the ground where ever the stopped to work.

 

A good kilm could sub as a forge and the metal would probably be originally smelted where it was mined.

[Markdoc]

Re: Medieval Farming Villages

 

Also remember that largish farms would often have someone who could do minor metalwork, using a crude temporary furnace and the side of a hammer as an anvil. This is how travelling tinkers did their work. You need quite a lot of people to make a living out of full-time smithing.

 

Based on my own experience, since some of the places where I work are esentially agrarian/medieval even today, no, it doesn't surprise me that the tavern beloved of fantasy writers was rare to non-existent. Historically, it's basically a city institution. In rural west africa, hotel-type taverns are rare off the main roads - a village of even a few thousand is by no means guaranteed to have one. And even purpose-built bars are pretty uncommon - it's much more common for someone to put an old pot or a cup upside down on a stick stuck in the ground by the side of the road. That means a house where you can get a meal or a drink for a small payment - but you can't order: you get what the family is eating. A similar practice was common in Ireland and England (and I presume elsewhere) right up until the 19th century.

 

cheers, Mark

[McCoy]

Re: Medieval Farming Villages

 

As far as blacksmiths go, you can always have something akin to the wandering smiths of Celtic Ireland. Thier anvil was a relativly small head on a nearly 6 foot iron spike that they would hammer in the ground where ever the stopped to work.

 

A good kilm could sub as a forge and the metal would probably be originally smelted where it was mined.

Again, the smith might depend on the military obligation of the Lord. If the local knight has to maintain arms, armor and a warhorse, he might have a skilled retainer that may do work for the peasents on a time-available basis. This village sounds small for that, but in warlike times budget might be apportioned.

 

Agree Inn/Tavern is highly unlikely unless the villiage is on a trade route.

[Mutant for Hire]

Re: Medieval Farming Villages

 

Oh, here's a bonus perk. A rather large PNG of medieval Nottinghamshire. I've lost the original source reference link but it's apparently a fairly ordinary English county back in the middle ages. Look at the number of villages and then look at the map scale to see exactly how densely packed these places are.

 

And yes, realistically, passing through most villages, a travelling group of adventurers would be forced to get their meals and sleeping quarters from whatever local farmer was willing to put them up. Note that this could be very simple assuming the group looked fairly reputable and was free with their coin.

 

Adventurers would themselves be forced to get most of their gear from a town at least, and the traditional linkage of adventurers to cities is in fact to some extent justified by the historical record. Cities existed to support professions that could not be afforded by villages or even towns. People went to the cities for exotic goods and services, and that would include adventurers as well. And the sorts of gear that adventurers need often would only be found in cities themselves.

[Curufea]

Re: Medieval Farming Villages

 

I've used the medieval demographics site for various fiefdoms in Western Shores - I've occasionally had players express disbelief at how few bakers there are, and how many shoe makers there are.

I then point out that these are professionals. There were far fewer bakers in medieval times because every family would do their own baking.

[Diamond Spear]

Re: Medieval Farming Villages

 

I would recommend picking up a book called "Life in a Medieval Village" by Gies.http://search.barnesandnoble.com/booksearch/results.asp?TTL=Life+in+a+Medieval+Village&z=y It should be available at your local Barnes and Noble (which is where I got my copy) it is chock full of information and an easy read as well. I also recommend "Life in a Medieval Castle" and "Life in a Medieval City" by the same author. Great books to read for anyone running a fantasy campaign.

[prestidigitator]

Re: Medieval Farming Villages

 

I've used the medieval demographics site for various fiefdoms in Western Shores - I've occasionally had players express disbelief at how few bakers there are, and how many shoe makers there are.

I then point out that these are professionals. There were far fewer bakers in medieval times because every family would do their own baking.

Oh. And I just thought it was because people liked to eat shoes back then.

[Curufea]

Re: Medieval Farming Villages

 

Oh' date=' here's a bonus perk. A rather large PNG of medieval Nottinghamshire. I've lost the original source reference link but it's apparently a fairly ordinary English county back in the middle ages. Look at the number of villages and then look at the map scale to see exactly how densely packed these places are.[/quote']

This is precisely my idea of pop density in the Western Shores. The original source material blithely states that they've had civilisation for thousands of years - typical of fantasy stock timelines - and yet we are to believe there are isolated villages days away from each other with wandering monsters in between? Puh-leeze!

 

Anyhow, back on topic - any chance you've found maps of medieval Germany at all? That's what I would really like to see - I've been on a constant hunt for them ever since I started my campaign. Using anything I could (took me a while to find all the heraldic devices of the baronies).

[Vondy]

Re: Medieval Farming Villages

 

 

Anyhow, back on topic - any chance you've found maps of medieval Germany at all? That's what I would really like to see - I've been on a constant hunt for them ever since I started my campaign. Using anything I could (took me a while to find all the heraldic devices of the baronies).

 

I have political maps of Germany and France in the high middle ages. The German maps are in... German. I also have a map of Wales in the 13th century, British Shires, and Europe in the Dark Ages (600 or so). I can send them to you. PM me with the e-mail address you want them sent to.

[austenandrews]

Re: Medieval Farming Villages

 

Oh' date=' here's a bonus perk. A rather large PNG of medieval Nottinghamshire.[/quote']

I like "Thorpe in the Glebe."

 

Cool map, thanks.