Steve Long; Please Build Me a Power: H_I_B_B

[Egyptoid]

Re: Steve Long; Please Build Me a Power: H_I_B_B

 

High Intensity Boredom Beam

[Robyn]

Re: Steve Long; Please Build Me a Power: H_I_B_B

 

Sadly' date=' it's well-established that in real life, we have little (if any) control of how our Experience Points are spent.[/quote']

 

So, in a game modelled after real life, players would be forced to roll for how their character's experience was spent?

 

An . . . interesting . . . modification. Do try it out in your own game first and let us know how it went

 

__________________

. . . if you survive

[ghost-angel]

Re: Steve Long; Please Build Me a Power: H_I_B_B

 

So' date=' in a game modelled after real life, players would be forced to [i']roll[/i] for how their character's experience was spent?

 

An . . . interesting . . . modification. Do try it out in your own game first and let us know how it went

 

__________________

. . . if you survive

roll? oh no ... that implies some control.

 

No. The GM just chooses for you.

[Dust Raven]

Re: Steve Long; Please Build Me a Power: H_I_B_B

 

roll? oh no ... that implies some control.

 

No. The GM just chooses for you.

 

g-a beat me to it.

 

Actually, this is how it's done in Amber, so some extent. The GM never tells the players when or even how much experience he's awarding, and the players never use it to gain new abilities or improve old ones. The players just hand the GM a list and hope.

[bigdamnhero]

Re: Steve Long; Please Build Me a Power: H_I_B_B

 

Actually' date=' this is how it's done in Amber, so some extent. The GM never tells the players when or even how much experience he's awarding, and the players never use it to gain new abilities or improve old ones. The players just hand the GM a list and hope.[/quote']

My first thought was "Man, I would hate being in a game like that.

 

My second thought was to remember that I actually did something similar in a game once and loved it.

 

The game was a post-modern Cthulu campaign with an emphasis on mental powers. The catch was that initially the PCs didn't understand their own powers, and in one case flat refused to believe in them. Each character had a "Mental Powers Pool" on their sheet - this wasn't a VPP or anything, just a total of how many points they had sunk into mental powers. But the powers themselves were not listed on their character sheets, only on my copy. So the players knew generally what powers their character had, but not how many dice, exactly what advs/lims, etc. When they got XP, they would decide how much to put into mental powers and give me general guidance like "I'd like to work on beefing up my mental defenses," but I would allocate where the points actually went. It worked well for that game with those players, as it gave mental powers a very different feel of uncertainty. In fact as the game progressed and the characters learned more about their abilities, I offered to let them take control of their powers sheets and they all voted to keep it the way it was.

 

Not to everyone's tastes, of course, but I can see a place for it.

[ghost-angel]

Re: Steve Long; Please Build Me a Power: H_I_B_B

 

I play in one game like that ... no experience is awarded, you only gain in ability if you 1) expicitely state you are working in an area and 2) the GM allows for it. It's a completely story driven game, and not for everyone.

 

In the sphere of the GM Does The Assigning you have to have the right group. Power Gamers tend to go berserk in that scenario... I personally like it.

[prestidigitator]

Re: Steve Long; Please Build Me a Power: H_I_B_B

 

I sort of liked the Call of Cthulhu system, where each time you used a skill significantly in a session, you marked it down. At the end of the session you got to make a generic skill roll for each of those, and if you FAILED the roll your skill went up. (I can't remember if you got some kind of benefit to these rolls for skills you used more than once; it was a long time ago).

 

I don't think it works really well for Hero because I like how Experience/Character Poitns balance, but I suppose a stickler of a GM could require such a roll before Experience is spent.

[Captain Obvious]

Re: Steve Long; Please Build Me a Power: H_I_B_B

 

 

I don't get it. Someone can sit alone in his basement and play video games for 40 hours a week and still be considered relatively normal. But get together with friends once a week for role-playing and you're the Loser-Geek King. I just don't get it.

 

Considered normal by who? I personally have mercilessly made fun of anyone I knew who tried to use their MMORPG HIBB on me. For instance, before I knew much about Everquest, and some guy described to me how he spent all this time making pots so he could graduate up to pie plates...oh ho ho ho, but did he regret that....

[Robyn]

Re: Steve Long; Please Build Me a Power: H_I_B_B

 

Actually' date=' this is how it's done in Amber, so some extent. The GM never tells the players when or even how much experience he's awarding, and the players never use it to gain new abilities or improve old ones. The players just hand the GM a list and hope.[/quote']

 

This is greatly exaggerated. The players know when they will be receiving XP, and won't be able to figure out how much until after they have had their chance to spend it. They also explicitly can gain new abilities and improve old ones.

 

The system in AMBER was, IMO, too complex. But perhaps a simpler system would have failed to properly emulate some flavor of the original source material that this method captured:

 

The players write down the abilities they want to have, in the order they'd like to acquire them; and whether or not they're willing to take Bad Stuff (go into "negative experience") to get these. You don't get to choose which of the abilities you're willing to take Bad Stuff for and which not; this was, frankly, rather annoying. Then, after everyone has written down their lists (and still before having any idea how much XP anyone has received), the sheets are handed in to the GM, who moves down the list.

 

For each item, the GM considers whether the current XP plus Good Stuff ("unspent XP") would be enough to buy/enhance the ability; if so, the ability is bought/enhanced and the GM proceeds to the next item on the list, but if not, the GM stops reading the list. If you put an expensive ability first, you might not have enough, and could end up with lots of unspent XP (Good Stuff, reflected by good things happening to your character in the game). If you put a cheap ability first, you would be more likely to actually get something that time around, but might end up with not enough XP to buy the more expensive abilities later, even if you did in the first place.

 

It can be difficult to get involved with the sort of trouble that good XP comes from, though, if your Good Stuff keeps you out of it; and this is where Bad Stuff comes in. Normally, the GM keeps adding abilities where possible until she gets to the last item on the list, there might be more but she stops at the item where she can't pay for it anymore; well, Bad Stuff complicates this. The last item will be paid for, even though you can't technically afford it, and the difference will be made up as Bad Stuff, effectively "XP you owe". I think this also prevents you from taking Bad Stuff the next time XP is awarded, but I don't know (I'm going from memory on this entire explanation).

[Dust Raven]

Re: Steve Long; Please Build Me a Power: H_I_B_B

 

This is greatly exaggerated. The players know when they will be receiving XP' date=' and won't be able to figure out [i']how much[/i] until after they have had their chance to spend it. They also explicitly can gain new abilities and improve old ones.

Not really exaggerated, since if you wanted to increase an Ability score (Strength, Endurance, Warfare or Psyche) you couldn't state how much of an increase to get, and you might already be at Rank 1 (or 1.5) with no guideline for how much it goes up if you are. Players never know how much XP they've been awarded (unless the GM specifically tells them for some reason) because after the first awarding of XP you don't know how much good or bad stuff you've got (though it doesn't take long to figure out if your Stuff is Good or Bad). And I didn't say they couldn't gain new abilities, just that they couldn't choose/know when they get them (unless the GM tells them).

 

The system in AMBER was, IMO, too complex. But perhaps a simpler system would have failed to properly emulate some flavor of the original source material that this method captured:

Did you play the same Amber I did? The rules couldn't be more simple of you were playing tag in the back yard. You had a handful of powers that spelled out what you could do and 4 Abilities that determined your skill in anything, high number wins. That's it.

 

The players write down the abilities they want to have, in the order they'd like to acquire them; and whether or not they're willing to take Bad Stuff (go into "negative experience") to get these.

True, but the GM is never bound by that list. If a player doesn't have Pattern but it's at the top of the list, the player's not going to get it unless he walks the Pattern in game. If something at the top of the list in impossible (or innappropriate in the GM's eyes) to get, the GM just moved down the list. The player has no knowledge of what the GM is allowing, or even where he is on the list since he doesn't know how much XP he's been getting. As far as he knows he still hasn't mastered the next level of Shapeshifting and up both Psyche and Endurance and thinks that Pattern is still a few items down on the list.

[prestidigitator]

Re: Steve Long; Please Build Me a Power: H_I_B_B

 

Hmm. Can't remember how Hol deals with character progression, but it's probably something like that....

[Thia Halmades]

Re: Steve Long; Please Build Me a Power: H_I_B_B

 

Now that would be hilarious.

 

Player: "Okay, Thia... you said we were awarded 7 EXP for that final fight?"

Thia: "Er... no. I said I would distribute the 7 experience points for the final fight."

Player: "Right... we were... wait... did you say... distribute?"

Thia: "As in, say goodbye to your fun, sucka! I'm TRULY GOD HERE! Bwa ha ha! YOU! Take 3 points in COOKING! AND YOU! WIZARD BOY! BUY SMITHING!"

 

Ew.

[Guest Celt]

Re: Steve Long; Please Build Me a Power: H_I_B_B

 

Ah' date=' yes. One more: World of Warcraft players do it everywhere, to everyone, 24 hours a day (and even try to use WoW analogies to non-players of WoW. I really wish someone would take down their servers. [/quote']

 

I type this on my laptop waiting for the GM and the other two players to wrap up WoW discussion so we can get on to gaming. We're over two hours now. Thank god for wireless networks and the Internet.

[prestidigitator]

Re: Steve Long; Please Build Me a Power: H_I_B_B

 

I type this on my laptop waiting for the GM and the other two players to wrap up WoW discussion so we can get on to gaming. We're over two hours now. Thank god for wireless networks and the Internet.

Oy. I'm sorry.

[AmadanNaBriona]

Re: Steve Long; Please Build Me a Power: H_I_B_B

 

Amber experience was inended to duplicate the feel of the books, where in several cases the characters were somewhat suprised to discover how much better they had become in one thing or another.

 

In the campaign I co-GM'ed, we saw the character progress lists as requests from the players, basically. Virtually all progressions involving XP were done in game, and the actual expenditure of points discussed by the 2 GM's both in relation to the current and future gameplay and storyline.

[Guest Celt]

Re: Steve Long; Please Build Me a Power: H_I_B_B

 

Oy. I'm sorry.

 

2.5 hours now. Don't know if we'll get to gaming today, haven't the previous two weekends due to them staying up to oh dark thirty raiding the night before. GD MMOGs, I've gamed with these folks for a decade, and regularly play CoH myself, but WoW is killing the group.

[prestidigitator]

Re: Steve Long; Please Build Me a Power: H_I_B_B

 

2.5 hours now. Don't know if we'll get to gaming today' date=' haven't the previous two weekends due to them staying up to oh dark thirty raiding the night before. GD MMOGs, I've gamed with these folks for a decade, and regularly play CoH myself, but WoW is killing the group.[/quote']

Have you tried being direct and just saying, "Hey, this all sounds very interesting, but do you think we could get back on track and get some roleplaying done?"

[Guest Celt]

Re: Steve Long; Please Build Me a Power: H_I_B_B

 

Have you tried being direct and just saying' date=' "Hey, this all sounds very interesting, but do you think we could get back on track and get some roleplaying done?"[/quote']

 

First I tried playing WoW with them, just didn't catch for me, I prefer City of Supers. Then I tried your approach, got apologies and such. Tonight was supposed to be a 'change', the GM having napped before the raid last night so he wouldnt be knackered today, he'd be prepared with material (how he doesnt have time to not be prepared with being terminally unemployed I dunno). :le sigh: Tough love time. Next week I'll stay home and play CoH.

[prestidigitator]

Re: Steve Long; Please Build Me a Power: H_I_B_B

 

First I tried playing WoW with them' date=' just didn't catch for me, I prefer City of Supers. Then I tried your approach, got apologies and such. Tonight was supposed to be a 'change', the GM having napped before the raid last night so he wouldnt be knackered today, he'd be prepared with material (how he doesnt have time to not be prepared with being terminally unemployed I dunno). :le sigh: Tough love time. Next week I'll stay home and play CoH.[/quote']

There's always online roleplaying done in the more traditional RPG style: http://www.openrpg.com/. I'm planning on using it for some Hero gaming, since I can't get my local group interested much anymore either (for similar reasons ).

[Dust Raven]

Re: Steve Long; Please Build Me a Power: H_I_B_B

 

Have you tried being direct and just saying' date=' "Hey, this all sounds very interesting, but do you think we could get back on track and get some roleplaying done?"[/quote']

 

Naw... just say you don't mind at all if they keep going on their discussion if you can keep playing without them (and get to control their characters). If one of them is the GM, don't bother asking. Just take over the game and run it while he's busy.

[Guest Celt]

Re: Steve Long; Please Build Me a Power: H_I_B_B

 

Sorry for the thread drift. To wrap the story up we finally got started 3 1/2 hours after we arrived. I should note one of the players is my housemate and my ride to the game. Next week I'll just grab a bus some hours after he leaves so they can be all talked out by the time I get there.

[Egyptoid]

Re: Steve Long; Please Build Me a Power: H_I_B_B

 

I don't call it thread drift.

 

MMORPG is often the ammo of choice loaded into the High Intensity Boredom Beam.

[Thia Halmades]

Re: Steve Long; Please Build Me a Power: H_I_B_B

 

*sizzle, pop snap* Wow. I remember when I played EQ.

 

I really hated myself for like... a year and a half. And then another six to twelve months after as I got my life back. Just... I dunno. Hit 'em with something. Like their laptop.

[Lucius]

Re: Steve Long; Please Build Me a Power: H_I_B_B

 

I sort of liked the Call of Cthulhu system, where each time you used a skill significantly in a session, you marked it down. At the end of the session you got to make a generic skill roll for each of those, and if you FAILED the roll your skill went up. (I can't remember if you got some kind of benefit to these rolls for skills you used more than once; it was a long time ago).

 

I don't think it works really well for Hero because I like how Experience/Character Poitns balance, but I suppose a stickler of a GM could require such a roll before Experience is spent.

 

Nowadays I understand that system is called "Basic Role Playing." The original game with that system is Runequest, and I always thought of games based on it (like Call of Cthulhu) as "questoids."

 

 

And I still consider it the best experience system in any roleplaying game ever. But I don't think it would work for Hero.

 

Lucius Alexander

 

The palindromedary is reminding me of the time....

[Shaft]

Re: Steve Long; Please Build Me a Power: H_I_B_B

 

There must be some way we can work in a Cumulative, Area Effect Drain to listeners' INT in the final build.