VarAdv Q.

[Threnody]

Howdy.

 

I'm reading the explaination for Variable Advantage on page 178. The first line is "A Power with this Advantage can have any Power Advantage of up to a certain value."

 

That, and the example and stuff assumes ONE Advantage will be stuck on the power. Now, I'm guessing that's just an assumption, but I gotta ask---is it a requirement?

 

What I mean is, if my char's EB has Variable Advantage (+3/4 worth, +1 1/2) on it, can she have 3 +1/4 Advantage on it (say Autofire Two Shots, Difficult to Dispel, and Hole In The Middle)? I'd think so, but the explaination of Var Adv might be interpreted to mean no.

 

While we're here---can you use less Adv. (even none) than the amount you bought? Same example: can that EB have Penetrating and nothing else?

[John Desmarais]

Re: VarAdv Q.

 

Howdy.

 

I'm reading the explaination for Variable Advantage on page 178. The first line is "A Power with this Advantage can have any Power Advantage of up to a certain value."

 

That, and the example and stuff assumes ONE Advantage will be stuck on the power. Now, I'm guessing that's just an assumption, but I gotta ask---is it a requirement?

 

What I mean is, if my char's EB has Variable Advantage (+3/4 worth, +1 1/2) on it, can she have 3 +1/4 Advantage on it (say Autofire Two Shots, Difficult to Dispel, and Hole In The Middle)? I'd think so, but the explaination of Var Adv might be interpreted to mean no.

 

While we're here---can you use less Adv. (even none) than the amount you bought? Same example: can that EB have Penetrating and nothing else?

 

I don't know if it's spelled out anywhere (don't have my book handy) but I have always run Var Adv as allowing as many advatages as will fit into the value paid for. If you can have up to +1 than you could have 2 +1/2 adv, 4 +1/4 adv or any other combo that adds up to no more than +1.

[schir1964]

Re: VarAdv Q.

 

I don't know if it's spelled out anywhere (don't have my book handy) but I have always run Var Adv as allowing as many advatages as will fit into the value paid for. If you can have up to +1 than you could have 2 +1/2 adv' date=' 4 +1/4 adv or any other combo that adds up to no more than +1.[/quote']

Ditto.

 

- Christopher Mullins

[ghost-angel]

Re: VarAdv Q.

 

p277 outlines it - it's what you stated John, any number of Advantages equal to the limit of Variable Advantage: A +2 Variable Advantage allows for any number of Advantages up to +1 Worth of Advantages.

[Lord Liaden]

Re: VarAdv Q.

 

While we're here---can you use less Adv. (even none) than the amount you bought? Same example: can that EB have Penetrating and nothing else?

 

According to the FAQ for Variable Advantage, a character "has to always assign the appropriate value worth of Advantages. He cannot assign no Advantages or less than the full amount of Advantages."

[Lucius]

Re: VarAdv Q.

 

According to the FAQ for Variable Advantage' date=' a character "has to always assign the appropriate value worth of Advantages. He cannot assign no Advantages or less than the full amount of Advantages."[/quote']

 

Now, why the heck would they do that?

 

Lucius Alexander

 

The palindromedary thinks it sometimes seems like they're just trying to make things HARDER for the players.

[Lord Liaden]

Re: VarAdv Q.

 

Well, I don't know about the reasons for making it a rule; but on the practical side there's not much benefit to not using the full range of Advantages, since you're paying the END cost for for the whole VA regardless of what you put into it. Might as well get maximum use out of it.

[prestidigitator]

Re: VarAdv Q.

 

Now' date=' why the heck would they do that?[/quote']

Who cares? What GM isn't going to ignore that rule?

[Bloodstone]

Re: VarAdv Q.

 

Now, why the heck would they do that?

 

Lucius Alexander

 

The palindromedary thinks it sometimes seems like they're just trying to make things HARDER for the players.

 

Naked Variable Advantage for the Win!

[ghost-angel]

Re: VarAdv Q.

 

Now, why the heck would they do that?

 

Lucius Alexander

 

The palindromedary thinks it sometimes seems like they're just trying to make things HARDER for the players.

Rule Of Advantages: All Advantages must be used all the time.

 

Including Variable Advantage.

[Lucius]

VarAdv Q.

 

So I guess if I want the power un-advantaged, I'd just stuff the Variable Advantage with Difficult to Dispel and get the equivalent of an unadvantaged power - with the benefit that if someone tries to Dispel, it probably won't work.

 

Lucius Alexander

 

Summon Palindromedary

[Lord Liaden]

Re: VarAdv Q.

 

Plus the Endurance cost for all that Difficult to Dispel, of course.

 

I figure if you have some Advantage space left, you can never go wrong with Reduced Endurance.

[Lucius]

Re: VarAdv Q.

 

Plus the Endurance cost for all that Difficult to Dispel, of course.

 

I figure if you have some Advantage space left, you can never go wrong with Reduced Endurance.

 

Especially now that it's so cheap to get it down to zero.

 

Sometimes I wonder if that's a good idea.

 

Lucius Alexander

 

Looking for an invisible palindromedary

[ghost-angel]

Re: VarAdv Q.

 

So I guess if I want the power un-advantaged, I'd just stuff the Variable Advantage with Difficult to Dispel and get the equivalent of an unadvantaged power - with the benefit that if someone tries to Dispel, it probably won't work.

 

Lucius Alexander

 

Summon Palindromedary

That's what I do.

 

You have to pay for the END on Variable Advantage even you don't "use" it.

[prestidigitator]

Re: VarAdv Q.

 

You have to pay for the END on Variable Advantage even you don't "use" it.

Oh, sure. The Variable Advantage Modifier is the thing that determines the Active Points of the Powers, not what actual Advantages you are applying to the Power with it at the time. That's the way I think of it. Makes it silly to require the player come up with the Advantages if they're feeling lazy or obstinate.

[Hyper-Man]

Re: VarAdv Q.

 

According to the FAQ for Variable Advantage' date=' a character "has to always assign the appropriate value worth of Advantages. He cannot assign no Advantages or less than the full amount of Advantages."[/quote']

 

One possible reason for this particular wording is to avoid giving the opportunity to players to argue that the active points allocated to the VA could be put back into the core power when VA is not used (like a multipower with an advantaged and non-advantaged slot of the same basic power).

 

see the following post for a more detailed example of what I mean:

http://www.herogames.com/forums/showthread.php?p=890486#post890486

[Lucius]

Re: VarAdv Q.

 

One possible reason for this particular wording is to avoid giving the opportunity to players to argue that the active points allocated to the VA could be put back into the core power when VA is not used (like a multipower with an advantaged and non-advantaged slot of the same basic power).

 

see the following post for a more detailed example of what I mean:

http://www.herogames.com/forums/showthread.php?p=890486#post890486

 

If players want to do that, then they should GET a multipower. That's what I did.

 

You can't just "put the points back in the base power" any more than you can not pay the END cost for the advantage (unless of course you SET the advantage to Zero End)

 

Lucius Alexander

 

The palindromedary wonders what happens if you set the Variable Advantage to Variable Advantage.....

[Sean Waters]

Re: VarAdv Q.

 

Thoughts: as to having to use it, the system reason for that is that you can not use a power without advantages: it is a single power, not two seperate bits, so you can not seperate them and use them in a non-proportional way. So, of course, you have to spend the points on END for the advantage.

 

Mind you I would not require there to actually BE any advantages in the power, although it would be a cold day in one of the hotter levels of Hell if a player who couldn't think of anything else did not assign, at least, some sort of reduced END advantage to a power they were using.

 

As to the MP idea, well, it is often a far more effective build in terms of raw power but a lot less effective in terms of flexibility and you can't put the thing in an EC, which could save a lot of points. If you are playing in a game with DC caps but no AP caps then VarAdv is definitely the way to go. There's quite a lot you can do with it:

 

1. 0 END blast

2. AP blast

3. Penetrating blast

4. AE hex blast

5. Autofire blast

6. Explosion blast

7. Indirect blast

8. Invisible blast

9. Variable sfx blast

10. UBO blast

11. Triggered blast

12. Transdimesional blast

13. Affects desolid blast

14. No range modifier blast

 

Plus a bunch of +1/4 advantages you could throw in, like personal immunity if you are fighting a reflector.

 

Speaking of raw power, if the choice was between a 12d6 (+1/2 VarAd) EB and a 24d6 EB, I know which one I'd be going for unless I was expecting to come across an awful lot of transdimensional/desolid critters.

[AmadanNaBriona]

Re: VarAdv Q.

 

Thoughts: as to having to use it, the system reason for that is that you can not use a power without advantages: it is a single power, not two seperate bits, so you can not seperate them and use them in a non-proportional way. So, of course, you have to spend the points on END for the advantage.

 

Mind you I would not require there to actually BE any advantages in the power, although it would be a cold day in one of the hotter levels of Hell if a player who couldn't think of anything else did not assign, at least, some sort of reduced END advantage to a power they were using.

 

As to the MP idea, well, it is often a far more effective build in terms of raw power but a lot less effective in terms of flexibility and you can't put the thing in an EC, which could save a lot of points. If you are playing in a game with DC caps but no AP caps then VarAdv is definitely the way to go. There's quite a lot you can do with it:

 

1. 0 END blast

2. AP blast

3. Penetrating blast

4. AE hex blast

5. Autofire blast

6. Explosion blast

7. Indirect blast

8. Invisible blast

9. Variable sfx blast

10. UBO blast

11. Triggered blast

12. Transdimesional blast

13. Affects desolid blast

14. No range modifier blast

 

Plus a bunch of +1/4 advantages you could throw in, like personal immunity if you are fighting a reflector.

 

Speaking of raw power, if the choice was between a 12d6 (+1/2 VarAd) EB and a 24d6 EB, I know which one I'd be going for unless I was expecting to come across an awful lot of transdimensional/desolid critters.

 

 

That list is the reason why, in our "No Frameworks, No AP limit, but soft DC limits" 4th Ed. Fantasy Hero Game, my mages main attack spell was a 2d6RKA, +3/4 Var. Advantage. With a conditional limit: (-1/4) Must research via Inventor (Spell Research) Skill any new combonations of advantages and/or SFX.

[PhilFleischmann]

Re: VarAdv Q.

 

Slightly OT, in case anybody's interested. I have a house rule for VA:

 

If the power is not an Attack Power, then Variable Advantage only costs 1.5 times the amount of Advantages that may be placed on it. For instance, if you want +1/2 in advantages on a non-attack power, then VA is a +3/4 advantage (instead of the usual +1). The reason for this is that almost all of the advantages apply to Attack powers, but lots of them don't apply to non-attack powers. (NND, AVLD, AP, Pen, etc.)

[Threnody]

Re: VarAdv Q.

 

Thanks everybody. I think I got it now.

 

I agree having to take all the Adv.s is silly, but there are "throw way" Adv.s like D2D so it's no biggy.

 

I'm gonna rep everybody I can for all of the help.