PRIMUS or UNTIL

[DEFCON Clown]

Re: PRIMUS or UNTIL

 

I don't use either but one of our GMs uses PRIMUS a lot.

[Jhamin]

Re: PRIMUS or UNTIL

 

I almost exclusively use PRIMUS. UNTIL exists, but only outside the US' borders.

 

I guess I just can't imagine a world, even in the comics, where a bunch of law enforcement types armed with heavy weapons have free rein on American Soil and aren't controlled by the government. The US just wouldn't stand for it. Shelly's take on them as an agency of professionals with the same general law enforcement powers as the FBI just made too much sense to me to ignore.

I don't use all the more Iron-Agey stuff, but Shelly's version of PRIMUS (now a division of the Department of Homeland Security) is the default in my game.

 

Game to game, I tend to run my PRIMUS NPCs as a mix of Law & Order and the AD Tank Police.

 

 

 

(Avatar notwithstanding. I wanted a hero logo and didn't really care for the Art-Deco PRIMUS eagle from 4th edition. If I could find/make a decent PRIMUS logo I would switch in a minute)

[Lord Liaden]

Re: PRIMUS or UNTIL

 

I do notice a completely-understandable tendency to favor PRIMUS among American HEROphiles, and UNTIL among those from outside the States. That also appears to influence whether someone views an effective United Nations agency as credible and/or desirable.

 

The way that the Champions Universe versions of the United Nations and UNTIL are depicted in UNTIL: Defenders Of Freedom does give them more credibility. I actually liked the tension between UNTIL and PRIMUS in the Fourth Edition version of the CU, but my perspective is of course from north of the border. I can understand DoJ changing that for the new CU - it allows for a broader range of uses for UNTIL in US-based games.

 

I'll be very interested to see how Shelley Mactyre incorporates those changes into the updated PRIMUS, but I hope that she doesn't change the structure and personnel too much. Aside from toning down a little of the Iron Age grimness (which, quite frankly, is easy to do - Shelley even included some suggestions for it), the 4E PRIMUS book is a very useful addition to a Champions campaign.

[Jhamin]

Re: PRIMUS or UNTIL

 

I do notice a completely-understandable tendency to favor PRIMUS among American HEROphiles' date=' and UNTIL among those from outside the States. That also appears to influence whether someone views an effective United Nations agency as credible and/or desirable.[/quote']

 

 

I think you have really hit on something here. I for one have no problems imagining UNTIL being a credible, effective force.

 

I just can't imagine any American govenment I have ever lived under allowing them to operate on US soil. (Crime-fighters who can level city blocks being allowed to roam free is the limit of my suspension of disbelief)

[tylermcdowell]

Re: PRIMUS or UNTIL

 

I think you have really hit on something here. I for one have no problems imagining UNTIL being a credible, effective force.

QUOTE]

I am sorry, but it isn't just being American. It is a matter of my understanding of 1960's world politics, the manner in which the UN is funded, and simple logistics of supporting small army of people/equipment. I just don't see that it would be possible.

[JohnTaber]

Re: PRIMUS or UNTIL

 

I use UNTIL. I don't use Primus at all. In fact UNTIL is a pretty important part of my latest Champions campaign. They are actually an antagonist for the PC! See my site and the Reliance Reforged area for details.

[tylermcdowell]

Re: PRIMUS or UNTIL

 

I was poking about on the internet and found some information that may or may not be true but lets say it is close. The UN has three different budgets, the Regular Budget to which the US contributes 22%, Peacekeeping 27% from the US, and one that is raised by charity used for humanitarian relief. A total of about $10 billion each year. Now compare that to the the US military budget of 440 billion. Makes me wonder where the "vast resources" are.

Where would UNTIL get funds to support all the personnel and equipment? Keep in mind that 10 billion doesn't cover the R&D for a fighter aircraft.

 

Even if the plans were donated by a good hearted scientist, who would build the equipment for UNTIL? What country having a factory for all the superadvanced weapons and not take the first opportunity to sieze the material and production facility for it's own military? At the very least they would be paying someone off for a copy of the blueprints or to have a crate "fall off the back of the truck".

[Edsel]

Re: PRIMUS or UNTIL

 

The lack of verisimilitude that you allude to is why UNTIL barely exists in the Champions campaigns that I have run. Most countries have their own organization for handling these sorts of things. In the USA it is PRIMUS. In nations without such organizations the task fall to their military.

[freakboy6117]

Re: PRIMUS or UNTIL

 

i have each nation with its own paranormal control agency with UNTIL equivalent to the UN peace keepers and weapon inspectors.

force is provided mostly by the members of the five permanent Security Council members plus the japanese and other members of european union.

 

until units have a global remit to prevent the propagation of super weaponry extra terrestrial tech and meta creation techniques until agents and supers are dispatched to assist countries