PRIMUS or UNTIL

[svwerley]

Which group do you use primarly in your campaign? Do you use both? How do you use them? Do any of your PC's affiliate themselves with either or both groups?

 

I am trying to figure out which one I am more inclined to be introducing to my players, and am a little stuck. I don't have either book, but I am tempted to get the PDF PRIMUS book as I could have it in hand today. Still, I was wondering what others use.

[John Desmarais]

Re: PRIMUS or UNTIL

 

Which group do you use primarly in your campaign? Do you use both? How do you use them? Do any of your PC's affiliate themselves with either or both groups?

 

I am trying to figure out which one I am more inclined to be introducing to my players, and am a little stuck. I don't have either book, but I am tempted to get the PDF PRIMUS book as I could have it in hand today. Still, I was wondering what others use.

 

Personally, I use UNTIL occasionally and PRIMUS just about never. No real reason other than, since 3rd edition, I've always done this.

[Hermit]

Re: PRIMUS or UNTIL

 

I favor PRIMUS, but I use both.

[Lord Liaden]

Re: PRIMUS or UNTIL

 

Being from north of your border, I tend to use UNTIL more often, at least in campaigns set up here.

 

PRIMUS is actually a very well-written book, giving you a lot for your money. The Fourth Edition system writeups would require little work to bring up to Fifth Edition, and the optional Brownie Point system is IMO a good addition. The book is several years out of date in terms of contemporary details, and has a slight "Iron Age" tone that you might want to adjust for your campaign (a symptom of the late '90's when it was written). I would still recommend it, particularly at that price.

 

Let me add that for games set in the United States, I've used both PRIMUS and UNTIL. While the two groups do overlap, IMO the former works better as a strike force and rapid-response unit, whereas the latter is stronger at policing and investigation, so there is a place for both in the same campaign world.

[TheQuestionMan]

Re: PRIMUS or UNTIL

 

PRIMUS or UNTIL... [Mal]Huh![/Mal]

 

UNTIL - I like UNTIL cause its 5th Edition and was long over due. (I dislike the helmets though). Their Superhuman Team is Odd and their Super Soldiers are Cliche, but overall a great Organization. UNITL's Agents are the Line Troops with the Superhumans called out when things look grim. UNTIL is not afraid to call for Superheroes.

 

PRIMUS - I use Shelly Crystal Mactyres ebook for PRIMUS and really love the History/Meta Plots she introduced. I prefered her take in their Super Soldiers (Gold and Silver Avengers), their Super Team had lots of potential for GM Plot Hooks, and their Assault Agents were Augmented by a Lesser version of the Super Soldier Process. (Faint echos of "Strikeforce Morituri"). Equipment wise I liked the Vehicle (Robots/Landmates/Mecha/whatever). PRIMUS has difficulty interacting with Superhumans and some times calls them too late.

 

The events that lead to Millenium City are a good example. Besides I find Silver Avengers underpowered in 5th Edition.

 

Cheers

 

QM

[svwerley]

Re: PRIMUS or UNTIL

 

Thanks for the handful of quick responses. I did minorly introduce Primus but had not done much with them. I was a Champions GM from first ed. but gave away all my books in the early 90's. So, I've been restocking from the ground up (I do still have my 1st, 2nd and 3rd ed rules books though for fun).

 

Anyway, I just bought the PRIMUS book and will print it out at work after everyone leaves (heh, color laser). And I will give it a look over. Our campaign has been dormant as I've been living in another city for the last 6 months, and I currently only have 2 players, but I am moving back to my original city in PA and intend to start running things again as of this weekend.

 

I expect you guys will start seeing more of me on this board as well.

[TheQuestionMan]

Re: PRIMUS or UNTIL

 

Anyway' date=' I just bought the PRIMUS book and will print it out at work after everyone leaves (heh, color laser). [/quote']

Heh, I lucked out. My buddies printed it off in colour, double sided it and bound it (Ones a Librarian) with a Clear Cover Page.

I expect you guys will start seeing more of me on this board as well.

Good to hear it.

 

QM

[Kharis2000]

Re: PRIMUS or UNTIL

 

Shelley Mactyre's PRIMUS book (and the PBEM game it sprang from) were almost literally the first time I saw anyone take PRIMUS and make them into something other than a flag-suited whipping boy for villains and heroes alike. They were interesting, effective, and somone that you didn't want to take as a Hunted for a quick 20-points 'because they're goobers.'

 

I had some success as a GM by making them a more of a paramilitary force and less of a law enforcement one, complete with access to the US Military arsenal. The players' introduction was a battlesuited villain laughing at the PRIMUS command to stand down and deactivate his armor, starting to take off, and catching four Stinger missiles at about 50' - no one laughed at the PRIMUS teams after that, but they never felt 'right' to me (and I was the GM). Shelley's stuff was - and still is for me - dead on. I hope Steve contacts her when the PRIMUS book comes around.

[Lord Mhoram]

Re: PRIMUS or UNTIL

 

I use SCM Primus book as well (one of the best Champions books in any edition, only rivalled by the 5th ed Demon and 4th ed Viper).

 

I tend to run JLA/Avengers style games, so UNTIL shows up more, because the action is intenational. I do use Primus in the US, and when using city based games. I've used the original Primus with the Golden Avenger there going total bad guy in a previous campaign (He helped found Genesis as the White King's Knight).

[Chimpira]

Re: PRIMUS or UNTIL

 

In my Campaign, although PRIMUS, MARS and MCPD are there, the characters interact more with UNTIL than with any other organization. This was just the way it fell together. I have seven players and had plans for different players to become tied more closely to different organizations but it looks like PRIMUS is about to become off limits.

 

Recently, I have allowed a player to become a GM in my game world. His first game made PRIMUS look very much ineffectual and moronic. Of course, he used VIPER in a way contrary to how I had established them to be as well. Over a local level I would not have had a problem but since it was on a national level I had to have a talk with him, because it would affect my game. He confided in me that he was using another mastermind to take down PRIMUS from behind the scenes, so that he could take it over. The fact that he was using a character to do this, that I had already established in my game with several subplots did not thrill me either.

 

Long story short, VIPER is showing their response to these events in my game. (which is going to be a major event. One of my players that is currently going through it said, "Now, THAT'S VIPER!") PRIMUS is going to be hit hard and I am going to let the other GM deal with that organization more than I do. I will still portray my local branch the way I presented them but overall structural policy and things I will leave to him. He was ok with this and said that he usually just played them like jerk cops. (Sigh)

[TheTemplar]

Re: PRIMUS or UNTIL

 

The Defenders and PRIMUS have a very close working relationship. Fantastic-Man, the group's leader, used to be on the payroll of a government agency called META, which was attacked and all but destroyed a couple of years ago. PRIMUS absorbed META's remaining assets (including Fantastic-Man) and now the two groups work very closely when fighting supercrime on US soil. The Defenders typically take the point positions while combating supervillains and then get support (IE: Pickup, detention, etc.) after the fact in addition to intelligence and other services PRIMUS provides.

 

They've not had any direct contact w/ UNTIL as of yet, though their PRIMUS liason did manage to secure International Police Powers in any UN member nation for the team through his UNTIL contacts. As their missions become more international, they will undoubtedly run into UNTIL more and more often.

[Edsel]

Re: PRIMUS or UNTIL

 

UNTIL has been around, in some form or another, since 1st or 2nd Edition. PRIMUS is the newer entity. Personally I have always favored PRIMUS. The only time I ever use UNTIL in a game is if the scenario is set outside of US territory.

[Sketchpad]

Re: PRIMUS or UNTIL

 

I use both ... and both are heavily modified in my campaign

[Blue]

Re: PRIMUS or UNTIL

 

PRIMUS, as they are the domestic group. UNTIL may confer with them (if asked) but take no action in PRIMUS territory.

[aylwin13]

Re: PRIMUS or UNTIL

 

We're using PRIMUS in our campaign. My character SCEPTRE is actually the leader of the NY base's superteam.

 

I've been tempted to buy the PRIMUS e-book, and now after hearing all the praise for it I guess I'm going to have to break down and get it.

[Iuz the Evil]

Re: PRIMUS or UNTIL

 

Well... I'd consider Checkmate (GGU) to be in essence UNTIL.

 

So, UNTIL. Used them in my home brewed campaigns as the premiere international law enforcement agency.

 

I never liked PRIMUS anyway, though they did make some fine "flag suited whipping boys" through the years for a variety of heroes and villains. Then again, I don't care for government sanctioned supers in most cases either... too many shades of "Mutant Registration Act", and Bolivar Trask's government sanctioned Operation Wideawake, Weapon X, etc. from my X-Men days. I can't recall a time when the government sanctioned supers have been depicted in a way that sat well with me in any comic medium I can think of (Henry Peter Gyrich and the Avengers? Yeah... that sucked too, Gyrich was a jerk). Definitely flavors my take on the genre.

 

A non-nationalistic super team is preferable to me, given the years of comic book genre convention on the subject. Likewise, I'll take non-nationalistic super law enforcement. YMMV.

 

P.S. Looked it up, Trask wasn't government sanctioned... my bad. The Sentinels became government sanctioned with Lang, after Trask's death.

[Lord Liaden]

Re: PRIMUS or UNTIL

 

Shelley's stuff was - and still is for me - dead on. I hope Steve contacts her when the PRIMUS book comes around.

 

Comments by Steve and Darren here on the boards have made it pretty clear that Shelley has the gig, and that they're simply waiting for her to find the time to finish the manuscript. (Her Regency HERO project seems to be ahead of it in her queue.) However, Shelley has provided a couple of updates/expansions to PRIMUS for Digital HERO, specifically issues #2 and #6. Here's a free sample from the latter: http://www.herogames.com/digitalHero/Samples/dh06primus.htm

[ross_winn]

Re: PRIMUS or UNTIL

 

I don't have any UNTIL but my favorite PRIMUS album is Sailing the Seas of Cheese, followed closely by Pork Soda.

[Guest The JeRQ]

Re: PRIMUS or UNTIL

 

Which group do you use primarly in your campaign? Do you use both? How do you use them? Do any of your PC's affiliate themselves with either or both groups?

 

I am trying to figure out which one I am more inclined to be introducing to my players, and am a little stuck. I don't have either book, but I am tempted to get the PDF PRIMUS book as I could have it in hand today. Still, I was wondering what others use.

We opted to use Primus despite Wynona's Brown Beaver:D

[tylermcdowell]

Re: PRIMUS or UNTIL

 

Speaking more from a 4th Edition view, I never thought much of either PRIMUS or UNTIL. PRIMUS seemed to be written as the "big bad boogeyman" of the government and UNTIL the pure soldiers of the enlightened world. Neither seemed to be "real", strange as it may seem to apply the term to something from a game where people dress in tights and fly through the air.

 

What I have read from the 5th Edition books I have purchased, it seems that the trend is even more pronounced. When reading the accounts of Dr Destroyer's rampage through Detriot and how the "vast resources" of UNTIL could have saved lives and property, I either want to laugh or hurl.

 

If anything, I dropped PRIMUS and changed UNTIL to an Executive Branch extention of the CIA, NSA, & DOD. Makes more sense to me at least.

[Vanguard00]

Re: PRIMUS or UNTIL

 

In the past (i.e. the early and mid 90s when I was playing FtF games heavily) PRIMUS was the preferred agency of all our GMs. These days I play PBEMs exclusively. I use UNTIL because I like the idea of an international force similar to SHIELD.

 

However, in a game I'm currently (trying to keep) running, I intend to bring in PRIMUS as a fledgling group. They'll be the government's response to an anti-meta push by the general public (registration bill defeated, but we're going to make a national force to deal with metas specifically; that sort of thing). UNTIL will be developed more, as well, but will take a back seat to PRIMUS within the US.

[Weldun]

Re: PRIMUS or UNTIL

 

 

We opted to use Primus despite Wynona's Brown Beaver:D

Do I want this explained to me?

 

I have used UNTIL on occassion, mostly as an information source, and as back-up when the PCs take on villainous agencies, like VIPER or DEMON, or a villain with agents on call like Professor Muerte, (who I miss). PRIMUS, on the other hand, is an agency I use quite often, only the PCs never have realised it. I rolled the MIB into PRIMUS, and pretty much every MIB that appears is a PRIMUS investigative agent.

[tylermcdowell]

Re: PRIMUS or UNTIL

 

Even the Avengers were UN at one point in a plot line to make the US military the bad guys or was the Red Skull behind that? As I understand it, in the Ultimate universe, SHIELD is a US military outfit as it started out being back in the 60's comics. I stopped following Marvel comics a while back.

 

To be sure the idea of an "international" agency is appealing. The major task is over coming the problems of explaining the logistical questions and developing a logical history/background. Frankly the UN could never support an agency like SHIELD, would never be allowed by the security council to have it, and policing the world goes against what the UN was intended to be. If these were overcome some how (perhaps by mental control?), being an organization made up of and for diplomatic bureaucrats, the agency would be so hopelessly mired in red tape it would be ineffective.

 

If the goal is an organization that operates internationally, a page can be taken from James Bond. He is a British agent for MI6, but goes and does anywhere he is needed. With this approach, there is the availability of plot lines as in the movie "Die Another Day". Sneaking into the unfriendly country to stop the bad guy without getting caught and starting WWIII.

[bigdamnhero]

Re: PRIMUS or UNTIL

 

In my world PRIMUS is the response team with the guts and the gear. UNTIL is basically a souped-up version of INTERPOL; little more than an information-sharing database. This is solely the result of my personal prejudices, having actually seen the UN in action. (Somalia, Haiti, et al.) Super-strong flying mutants in spandex using their laser-vision to stop Dr. Supermook's deathray from destroying the Lost City of Atlantis - that I can handle. But the idea of the UN fielding an effective international response force of any kind just strains my credibility meter too much. Sorry.

 

OTOH, I should note that my game isn't set in the CU as such. I don't (yet) have either the UNTIL or PRIMUS books, and neither group figured prominantly in any of my pre-5ed games. So I doubt my PRIMUS has much in common with the "official" version anyway.

[Lemurion]

Re: PRIMUS or UNTIL

 

I'm just in the process of working up more of the details of my universe, but while it's got some roots in the CU I haven't really looked into Primus, and rather than UNTIL I tend to use UNIT, with the Brigadier as its leader. So far it's working.