how to build: highlander-ish soul catching

[dstarfire]

I've come across this concept in several books, but can't figure out how to make it viable in hero.

 

When a character kills another person, he also absorbs all that person's thoughts, memories, and knowlege. While seemingly useful, this invariably inflicts devestating grief, remorse, etc. on the character as they discover the 'inner beauty' of the life they've just taken. mechanicly, it wouldn't give the character any skills or powers they didn't already possess (though it could be used as a justification for buying the victims skills and/or powers posessed, depending on theif sfx). Also, the character has to willingly strike the killing blow.

 

I'd think this is just a cool telepathy construct, except telepathy only lets you got one thought/idea at a time. This is basically a dump of the victim's entire consciousness at the moment of death.

[Lemurion]

Re: how to build: highlander-ish soul catching

 

It sounds to me like a transform to a remorseful person with the victim's memories, much like the Psionic Surgery example of a minor transform on the sidebar of page 238 of 5ER.

[ghost-angel]

Re: how to build: highlander-ish soul catching

 

I would make it a Transform or a Plot Device.

 

One thing you could do is create a VPP that "holds" the persons Skills/Memories/et cetera until the Character pays the XP to buy them normally. They may or may not have access to the actual VPP until they buy all the parts - call it a Potentiality VPP or something. They can pull something from it to help out, but then have to spend XP to keep it, or it's lost.

[Lord Liaden]

Re: how to build: highlander-ish soul catching

 

There are some interesting suggestions along these lines in the excellent fan-created "Highlander HERO" PDF, which you can download for free from here: http://www.starherofandom.com/h_highlander/index.php

 

You might also check out this discussion thread from the Old Forum archives - some of that is pertinent too: http://www.herogames.com/oldForum/FantasyHero/000008.html

[Rapier]

Re: how to build: highlander-ish soul catching

 

Actually I was thinking more along the lines of Clairsentience:

 

View Life of Absorbed Soul: Retrocognitive Clairsentience (Sight And Hearing Groups), No Range Modifier (+1/2) (75 Active Points); Only can view events by souls that have been absorbed (-1), Only Through The Senses Of Others (-1/2), Blackout (-1/2), Extra Time (Full Phase, -1/2) - 21 Real Points/7 END.

 

This gives you access to, in theory, all of the targets sight and hearing groups (but that is debatable by GM). In the worst case you get all the senses you have in common within those two groups. There is No Range Mods, so it doesn't matter if the event took place in Texas and you are in the Bahamas. You can only view events of the absorbed souls...how you absorb the souls is mostly plot and SFX so doesn't need a separate power. Only throught the senses of other is pretty obvious and the Blackout (-1/2) is basically a 0 DCV Concentrate with Unaware of Surrounding and Must Concentrate Throughout (-1 1/2) for an amazingly screwifyingly cheap price...but the cost difference is only 4 pts. The Extra Time is just something I feel the power should have. If you are going to go running around in someone else's thoughts, it should take a bit of searching. I'd even consider going Full Turn.

 

You could also easily go No Conscious Control or Activation Roll. This is one of those powers that can be a real pain in the keister for a GM. Instead of doing all the investigating and research (and filling out the next 3 game sessions as the GM planned), the character can just go and pop around in someone's memory and solve the problem. Yeah, killing the person or whatever is required to absorb the soul is a pain, but I'm sure an inventive character (Dr Kevorkian to the Supers) would find some way around that.

 

I suppose I'm being a little harsh. The rules don't specifically state that BlackOut leaves you 0 DCV, but if you can't see through your own senses I doubt you are going to be very defensive. It's hard to say.

[Derek Hiemforth]

Re: how to build: highlander-ish soul catching

 

Before suggesting a build, it sounds to me like you need to more precisely define exactly what game effect you want this kind of "quickening" to have. (Reasoning from effect, as usual.) Should it convey Skills? Disads? Nothing tangible? (ie. "just" roleplaying fodder) Once you answer what you want the effect to be, defining the build will be a lot easier.

[Dust Raven]

Re: how to build: highlander-ish soul catching

 

For the most part, I see the Quickening as the SFX for buying some new Skills out of the blue with the XP the character earned during the adventure involving the immortal he just beheaded. As for gaining the memories and such, I'd give the character a Retrocog Clairsentience similar to the one Rapier suggests, but instead of it applying at any time to view the events of any immortal every killed, it applies only at the point of the quickening, and has the Rapid Adder to it all comes in at once. After that, the character has viewed all of the memories of the immortal he just beheaded and needs to make an INT roll any time thereafter to recall any details. Everything is likely to be fuzzy at best later on naturally. Using the series as a reference, I don't recall Duncan having any flashbacks involving the memories of some other immortal or relying on the information gained during a quickening, so it might just be fluff instead of an actual Power.

 

Another option is to write it up from the other direction. Every immortal has a Mental Transform that triggers when his head is cut off near another immortal. The Transform automaticall targets and hits the other immortal and transforms his mind into one that has the Skills/memories of the immortal slain. Side effects include temporary vulnerability while a lightning storm takes place. This Power would also give immortals incentive to behead other immortals to gain their Power (instead of requiring a Psych Limit on all immortals: Hunting all Immortals).

[ghost-angel]

Re: how to build: highlander-ish soul catching

 

Here's something I would do for a game like this that's more in line for less rapid power growth...

 

When an Immortal takes the soul of another Immortal the taker chooses a KS/SS/PS/AK (basically some form of Knowledge based General Skill) that the now dead immortal had and adds it to their Skill List at the base level (they gain a 2pt Skill at 11-). If they have them all, or already have one they want they increase it by one level.

 

Every Immortal has a Reputation as a Powerful Immortal, that is gained when you make your first kill and gain a soul. After that every X number of souls, say 5, the Reputation goes up. After your next 5 Souls you gain an additional +1, after the next 5 your Rep Roll goes to 11-, the next five is another +1, the next your Rep Roll ups to 14-, after that every 5 Souls simply adds a +1 to your Rep.

 

Just an idea. Otherwise I see the Characters (PC and NPC) just spiraling upwards as they gain massive numbers of Skills and such.

[Victim]

Re: how to build: highlander-ish soul catching

 

Kill someone -> Get XP -> get new abilities.

[Robyn]

Re: how to build: highlander-ish soul catching

 

Kill someone -> Get XP -> get new abilities.

 

If you get XP as straightforwardly as killing someone, sure.

[Lord Liaden]

Re: how to build: highlander-ish soul catching

 

Yeah, what are we playing here, D&D?

[JmOz]

Re: how to build: highlander-ish soul catching

 

Disclaimor: Have not read all of the thread

 

I would say that each immortal buys certain skills, powers, etc... with the independent disad, when they die the points they have saved travel to new guy (Mostly Skill levels in HtH I think)...

[Dust Raven]

Re: how to build: highlander-ish soul catching

 

Kill someone -> Get XP -> get new abilities.

It's Hackmaster Hero!

[dstarfire]

Re: how to build: highlander-ish soul catching

 

Actually I was thinking more along the lines of Clairsentience:

 

View Life of Absorbed Soul: Retrocognitive Clairsentience (Sight And Hearing Groups), No Range Modifier (+1/2) (75 Active Points); Only can view events by souls that have been absorbed (-1), Only Through The Senses Of Others (-1/2), Blackout (-1/2), Extra Time (Full Phase, -1/2) - 21 Real Points/7 END.

 

This gives you access to, in theory, all of the targets sight and hearing groups (but that is debatable by GM). In the worst case you get all the senses you have in common within those two groups. There is No Range Mods, so it doesn't matter if the event took place in Texas and you are in the Bahamas. You can only view events of the absorbed souls...how you absorb the souls is mostly plot and SFX so doesn't need a separate power. Only throught the senses of other is pretty obvious and the Blackout (-1/2) is basically a 0 DCV Concentrate with Unaware of Surrounding and Must Concentrate Throughout (-1 1/2) for an amazingly screwifyingly cheap price...but the cost difference is only 4 pts. The Extra Time is just something I feel the power should have. If you are going to go running around in someone else's thoughts, it should take a bit of searching. I'd even consider going Full Turn.

 

You could also easily go No Conscious Control or Activation Roll. This is one of those powers that can be a real pain in the keister for a GM. Instead of doing all the investigating and research (and filling out the next 3 game sessions as the GM planned), the character can just go and pop around in someone's memory and solve the problem. Yeah, killing the person or whatever is required to absorb the soul is a pain, but I'm sure an inventive character (Dr Kevorkian to the Supers) would find some way around that.

 

I suppose I'm being a little harsh. The rules don't specifically state that BlackOut leaves you 0 DCV, but if you can't see through your own senses I doubt you are going to be very defensive. It's hard to say.

 

YES!!! That seems to describe almost exactly what I was trying for: the character witnesses the target's life and history as if it were his own.

 

I'd think the game balance issues would be solved by good roleplaying. Part of the sfx of the power is that by knowing the total of a victim's life, he empathizes with them, which causes a ton of remorse, meaning the character's going to be very reluctant to take a life. I'd include in the character concept that this ability is a sort of penance for prematurely ending another's life.

[Rapier]

Re: how to build: highlander-ish soul catching

 

It's Hackmaster Hero!

 

CRUD! Gotta spread some rep around first!

[Derek Hiemforth]

Re: how to build: highlander-ish soul catching

 

Yeah' date=' what are we playing here, D&D? [/quote']Normally, I'd agree with you. But if this was literally for a Highlander Hero campaign, I think the "kill things -> get xp -> buy stuff" model might be a perfectly reasonable way to handle a Quickening.

 

For example, in a true "There Can Be Only One" setup, perhaps immortals can only gain XP the "normal" way for good roleplay and such. They gain no XP for simply succeeding in scenarios. As a result, their "normal" XP growth could be quite slow.

 

However, when they get a Quickening, they might get a larger chunk of XP at one time (the amount based on the power of the immortal they've slain). They might be restricted in what they can spend some of those XP on, perhaps being required to buy at least Familiarities with any Skills the target possessed but they did not, a KS: in the life of the target, etc.

 

In a setting where the primary goal is to kill the other immortals one-by-one until you're the only one left, awarding XP primarily for killing immortals isn't so wacky. After all, it's rewarding the primary goal of the campaign.

[Greywind]

Re: how to build: highlander-ish soul catching

 

Using the series as a reference' date=' I don't recall Duncan having any flashbacks involving the memories of some other immortal or relying on the information gained during a quickening, so it might just be fluff instead of an actual Power.[/quote']

The episode Double Jeopardy with Morgan D'estaing. Duncan merged his memories with Xavier St. Cloud's. There is no other way to justify the flashback Duncan had showing the conversation Xavier and Morgan had with Morgan's family, as Duncan wasn't there until after.

[prestidigitator]

Re: how to build: highlander-ish soul catching

 

Err...Physical Limitation: physically and emotionally vulnerable after killing another immortal? Probably about wraps it up as far as I could tell from the series. The movie (I'll only admit to there being one of them) might be a slightly different matter. It's been a long time since I watched it.

[Ockham's Spoon]

Re: how to build: highlander-ish soul catching

 

I ran a Champions campaign with a Highlander-inspired character in it. Long story short, there were 12 people who were engaged in a contest wherein killing the other contestants made them more powerful. Each of the contestants was built on 250 points, but only got to spend 202 points. Each time they killed another character, they got to spend 4 of those points on abilities reflecting the contestant that just died. If you killed a contestant that had already slain 3 others, then you would get 16 points to spend, until everyone was dead and you got all 48 points.

 

This setup allowed the character to be balanced with the other supers but still advance quickly when killing another contestant. (okay he was kind of weak at the beginning but he rapidly improved as the other contestants were eliminated). Anyway, I don't know how appropriate this method would be to your campaign, but it worked in this case.

 

__________________________________________________________

"Some people spread joy wherever they go. Others, whenever they go." - Oscar Wilde

[Greywind]

Re: how to build: highlander-ish soul catching

 

Err...Physical Limitation: physically and emotionally vulnerable after killing another immortal? Probably about wraps it up as far as I could tell from the series. The movie (I'll only admit to there being one of them) might be a slightly different matter. It's been a long time since I watched it.

If you read into Duncan's character, he got tired of the killing. If he killed someone that should have done something different to avoid the conflict with Duncan or was a friend, Duncan would wander off to come to terms with the killing. If it was someone that, to Duncan's eyes was evil, there was no remorse, no second-guessing himself.

 

Duncan was raised the son of the clan chief, to be chief in his own time. It was Duncan's upbringing to judge, bound by Clan honor.