One-Trick Pony Campaigns

[transmetahuman]

In the beginning (before secondary mutations, healing factors that somehow enhanced your senses, and nearly every telepath also having telekinesis &/or astral projection/clairvoyance), the X-Men were designed as one-trick ponies. Each was a normal person, with one specific "extra". Some mutant powers were more versatile than others (Iceman vs Cyclops or Angel), but for the most part each had to rely on teamwork to get done what needed to be done.

 

I've read a lot on this board to discourage such concepts; the big one seems to be that lacking superhuman defenses will get you killed real fast when you don't have the X-Men's plot protection powers at work.

 

On the other hand, people do seem to be playing X-Men based games, as well as Legion of Superheros games (another big herd of ponies). What are your experiences with such games? How do the characters stay alive without ubiquitous bulletproof spandex or combat luck? Are they fun to play, or do you quickly drop the campaigns for concepts that allow more versatility? What if powers were even more strictly held to concept (ie, no, you can't fly because you have a sonic scream, because that's just stupid; no, having an EB doesn't always justify having a FF)? What should a GM of such a game watch out for, what can he do to make it more fun?

[GoldenAge]

Re: One-Trick Pony Campaigns

 

In truth, these one-trick x-men were far more versatile than it appears.

 

Let's take Ice Man, for instance. From his first day at Xavier’s school he could:

 

Cover himself with snow = Force Field?

Throw snowballs = Energy Blast?

Create Ice shields = Force Wall + Missile Deflect/Reflect?

Move on Ice ramps (In think) = Increased Move - Flight limited to a certain range to objects?

 

It wasn't long that Xavier had them pretty well trained. That might be represented by skill levels and maybe a small Martial Arts package?

 

Even Cyclops was more diverse than you'd think. Remember, he had a great deal of control over his Optic Blast. He was able to fire fine beams that could break through locks or wide blasts capable of targeting several opponents:

EB Multipower:

1. Fine Beam (5d6 EB - 2x Armor Piercing - Limited Range?)

2. Normal Energy Blast - Multiple skill Lvls for Bouncing only?

3. Area of Effect EB 2x KB (No Range)?

etc....

 

Of them all Warren and The Beast were the most simple... But an ultra-rich aerial Martial Artist and a genius semi-Brick/Martial Artist are pretty potent characters.

 

I love the one trick pony approach. We've even gone so far as to limit the supers to one power without Personal Immunity (ie - if you burst into flame it hurts!) In the end, to reflect how even the simplest of powers can be cleverly manipulated you end up with several power slots. It's Champions. Just because the character is loaded with options it doesn't mean that it's not ONE power... It's the power's cosmetics dictates that.

[Supreme Serpent]

Re: One-Trick Pony Campaigns

 

My suggestions:

 

-Encourage people when coming up with their concept to consider some of the varied uses, including defense. Some concepts will be easier (Colossus), but others can work too (Cyclops missile deflection). One power does not necessarily mean one trick.

 

-Personally, I'd drop KAs. Anything that was a KA, make it an AP normal attack instead.

 

-Allow people to abort to desperate defensive actions even if they've gone that phase. Angel just punched the guy and now there's a grenade incoming the same phase? Let him abort to dive for cover or bat the grenade away with a wing anyways.

 

-If you can, try to have characters with a similar "range" of concept - ie don't have two with very narrow focus and two with wide focus - Cypher and Magneto on same team, to use an exagerrated example.

[transmetahuman]

Re: One-Trick Pony Campaigns

 

In truth, these one-trick x-men were far more versatile than it appears.

 

Let's take Ice Man, for instance. From his first day at Xavier’s school he could:

 

Cover himself with snow = Force Field?

Throw snowballs = Energy Blast?

Create Ice shields = Force Wall + Missile Deflect/Reflect?

Move on Ice ramps (In think) = Increased Move - Flight limited to a certain range to objects?

 

It wasn't long that Xavier had them pretty well trained. That might be represented by skill levels and maybe a small Martial Arts package?

 

Even Cyclops was more diverse than you'd think. Remember, he had a great deal of control over his Optic Blast. He was able to fire fine beams that could break through locks or wide blasts capable of targeting several opponents:

EB Multipower:

1. Fine Beam (5d6 EB - 2x Armor Piercing - Limited Range?)

2. Normal Energy Blast - Multiple skill Lvls for Bouncing only?

3. Area of Effect EB 2x KB (No Range)?

etc....

 

Of them all Warren and The Beast were the most simple... But an ultra-rich aerial Martial Artist and a genius semi-Brick/Martial Artist are pretty potent characters.

 

I love the one trick pony approach. We've even gone so far as to limit the supers to one power without Personal Immunity (ie - if you burst into flame it hurts!) In the end, to reflect how even the simplest of powers can be cleverly manipulated you end up with several power slots. It's Champions. Just because the character is loaded with options it doesn't mean that it's not ONE power... It's the power's cosmetics dictates that.

Just for the record, it's not an X-Men or even mutant campaign I'm thinking about. I probably should have used examples from the LSH, as well; Xanth Talents were as much of an inspiration, too.

 

I agree, a lot of the appeal of this kind of game is figuring out how to use your one power most effectively - I'd assume most PCs would choose fairly versatile concepts. Of course I don't mean to limit things to a single Champions power; more a single special effect, and that more narrowly defined than most Champions elemental controls. Power skill will probably be ubiquitous; coming up with unthought-of uses is half the fun.

 

What were some of the differences you noticed in the 1TP campaigns you played compared to more general supers? I'm not asking so much about character design; more how things worked out in play.

[radioKAOS]

Re: One-Trick Pony Campaigns

 

In truth, these one-trick x-men were far more versatile than it appears.

 

Let's take Ice Man, for instance. From his first day at Xavier’s school he could:

 

Cover himself with snow = Force Field?

Throw snowballs = Energy Blast?

Create Ice shields = Force Wall + Missile Deflect/Reflect?

Move on Ice ramps (In think) = Increased Move - Flight limited to a certain range to objects?

 

It wasn't long that Xavier had them pretty well trained. That might be represented by skill levels and maybe a small Martial Arts package?

 

Even Cyclops was more diverse than you'd think. Remember, he had a great deal of control over his Optic Blast. He was able to fire fine beams that could break through locks or wide blasts capable of targeting several opponents:

EB Multipower:

1. Fine Beam (5d6 EB - 2x Armor Piercing - Limited Range?)

2. Normal Energy Blast - Multiple skill Lvls for Bouncing only?

3. Area of Effect EB 2x KB (No Range)?

etc....

 

Of them all Warren and The Beast were the most simple... But an ultra-rich aerial Martial Artist and a genius semi-Brick/Martial Artist are pretty potent characters.

 

I love the one trick pony approach. We've even gone so far as to limit the supers to one power without Personal Immunity (ie - if you burst into flame it hurts!) In the end, to reflect how even the simplest of powers can be cleverly manipulated you end up with several power slots. It's Champions. Just because the character is loaded with options it doesn't mean that it's not ONE power... It's the power's cosmetics dictates that.

 

Cyclops was also a master of Judo. He could kick some serious butt when the script allowed.

 

Of course, once Storm lost her powers, she fought him and handed him his own butt, but that's another story...

[Roter Baron]

Re: One-Trick Pony Campaigns

 

Of them all Warren and The Beast were the most simple... But an ultra-rich aerial Martial Artist and a genius semi-Brick/Martial Artist are pretty potent characters.

 

As much as I love character concepts that don't simple stick to one concept - what's your experinece with these semi-brick/ martial artist, half a mage/ half a blaster, quarter-unicorn/ half were-tiger/ full-time nymphomaniac (okay, I am digressing here ...) characters?

 

I sometimes found them to promise much, but were slow to deliver anything:

 

All the bricks are stronger, all the martial artists have more secret kung fu powers, the real mages laugh about your puny list of spells, the speedster all leave you behind eating their dust, the blasters blast you away, everyone is more mental than you, the weapons master keeps telling you "THAT'S a sword!" and Mr. Master Detective always mutters "Well, Watson ..."

 

That's my personal experience from playing them too often and getting laughed at too often.

[Blue]

Re: One-Trick Pony Campaigns

 

If I were the type of person to design scenarios based around the heroes' powers, then this would create a big logistical issue; Because not all players show up for all games. The group could be without what they need to complete a scenario.

 

Fortunately I don't do things that way.

 

The big reason I would not want to run a campaign like that anyway is that having only one thing to do (generally) is pretty boring for players. There's something to be said for trying to improvise a new and creative move with the same old powers. But this really does have a ceiling at which you wind up doing the same old thing.

[wrestlinggeek]

Re: One-Trick Pony Campaigns

 

Seems to me that Bricks would be the best character type to play in such a campaign. After all. you could justify super-strength, high defenses, super-leap, and all sorts of LS powers under one discription.

[Hugh Neilson]

Re: One-Trick Pony Campaigns

 

The biggest issue historically has been defenses. Combat Luck and/or unstable molecule costumes and/or small force fields provided by flight rings could take the edge off those big attacks, while still meaning a solid hit from Cyclops KO's Angel every time.

 

As well, a bit of creativity with defenses could help. Cyclops isn't all that fast (high DCV), but rarely gets taken out in one shot in the comics because he generally avoids taking a solid hit. This could be reflected by Damage Reduction, perhaps limited to require a skill roll or some such.

 

Alternatively, the AP of attacks could be dropped considerably, and defenses fall along with it. The difference between a trained normal like Cyclops (say 5 def) and a steel-skinned Colossus (say 18 DEF) is a lot more pronounced if attacks cap out at 6 DC.

[Bloodstone]

Re: One-Trick Pony Campaigns

 

I like versatility. I hate sitting on my hands in a game because I don't have anything meaningful to contribute to the adventure at the moment. I don't mind when another character goes solo or has the spotlight for a bit, but if I sit idle through most of the night I will start thinking to myself "I have better things to do with my time..."

 

If I can build a "one trick pony" that can avoid those situations, I'd be happy. But chances are, it can’t be done. Not with the group I play with anyhow... I don’t like characters that are totally unbalanced in one direction or another. I like some offense, some defense, and some utility powers. If I’m playing a super hero game, I want powers that will help me save lives, while still allowing me to lay the smack down on some villains.

 

Lets face it, before she had the force fields the Invisible Girl was a boring one trick pony on a team of Lipizzans. She had one power, no useful skills and good looks. That’s it. Her only reason for being there was to add relationship drama, to occasionally be the damsel in distress and to every once in a while save the day just to prove that she was worth keeping around. In other words, she was a sidekick, a contact or a DNPC most of the time.

 

Now, she's still a hottie, still provides some much needed drama, but she's also the most versatile and powerful member of the FF. She's still got very little in the way of useful skills though

[Hugh Neilson]

Re: One-Trick Pony Campaigns

 

I think a OTP campaign requires much more work on the part of the GM to create adventures where everyone's powers are useful. Aquaman was always a challenge in that regard for JLA writers - something always had to happen near water.

 

Anyone remember the old LSH issue where Chemical King compares his general utility with Superboy's. "You can move planets with your bare hands. I can change the pace of chemical reactions."

[Murrkon5]

Re: One-Trick Pony Campaigns

 

Creating a 1TP is always a pleasant challenge. At least half the super characters I've played were more or less single power people.

 

As implied above, the way to do it is not to start with the single power/effect. The way to create such a character is to set aside some points and then build a "James Bond" or "Indiana Jones" chock full o' skills and talents. When you have a character that hold his head high, keep it on his shoulders, THEN tap on a power beyond those of mortal men.

 

(And then go back to tweak as new ideas pop up or are suggested)

[GoldenAge]

Re: One-Trick Pony Campaigns

 

What were some of the differences you noticed in the 1TP campaigns you played compared to more general supers? I'm not asking so much about character design; more how things worked out in play.

 

Well, I had some great gamers, so my games usually went rather smoothly. The one thing I noticed (it was quite obvious, actually) was that there were many more PC discussions and teamwork became a very important part of their battle tactics. It was quite refreshing to see EVERYONE incorporated in plans, rather than a TK god, or massive Brick just go out and take care of things alone, his teammates following in his wake.

One thing I didn't do was plan adventures differently. I left it up to my players to overcome the same type of challenges I'd always placed before them. It was often tough on them, but I saw wheels turning that had been silent for some time.

 

Eventually we went back to a full 4-color game... The 1TP exercise really forced them to retrain their Player skills, which enhanced the 4-color game (allowing me to get nastier and nastier).

[GoldenAge]

Re: One-Trick Pony Campaigns

 

As much as I love character concepts that don't simple stick to one concept - what's your experinece with these semi-brick/ martial artist, half a mage/ half a blaster, quarter-unicorn/ half were-tiger/ full-time nymphomaniac (okay, I am digressing here ...) characters?

 

I sometimes found them to promise much, but were slow to deliver anything:

 

All the bricks are stronger, all the martial artists have more secret kung fu powers, the real mages laugh about your puny list of spells, the speedster all leave you behind eating their dust, the blasters blast you away, everyone is more mental than you, the weapons master keeps telling you "THAT'S a sword!" and Mr. Master Detective always mutters "Well, Watson ..."

 

That's my personal experience from playing them too often and getting laughed at too often.

 

 

In my history as a GM (Hero since 1987) all of the very best characters were well planed out and, more often than not, reflected the 1TP. Just like Green Lantern utilized his Power Ring to amazing results, stemming from Desolid and Mind Probe to Force Walls and Summon [vehicles] they received all of their powers from a single cosmetic.

 

Often, when I've encountered deliberately mixed heroes they've either been too powerful or only really utilized one aspect of their power set.

 

I once had a full Brick/Martial Artist... Now, this wasn't a Sumo Wrestler (which I believe is a good and acceptable concept) but, rather, a full blown Brick that had trained under a Zen master... He was WAY too powerful for the game. The combination of a 60 STR + Martial Arts, a 6 speed, Breakfall and many other married maneuvers made him impossible to take down in a classic fashion (and I'm all about the classics). He never had to think about what he was going to do because he could deflect all range and Martial Dodge everything else... it just sat wrong with me (and the other players - How does a giant with several levels of Density Increase roll to his feet and jump right into a flying side kick?). Later, the player even realized that there was no challenge and dropped the character.

 

I've also had the pleasure of dealing with a Brick/Mage. What a mess. This character had a huge STR + major personal defenses + the diversity of a variable Power Pool of magic spells, which could reproduce anything from Teleportation and Entangles to Energy Blasts, Invisibility and Flight. Whooooo boy!

 

The write-up on this character was quite good. It easily explained everything very well... But it just didn't play well as a group member. Adventures came down to the team brainstorming a way for the Brick/Mage to do almost all of the work (including giving them extra power). It got boring for everyone, even when I brought out some great GM ideas. Sure, I was able to handle the Brick/Mage but, in my attempt to counter his unique power set, I totally outclassed his teammates. This player also gave up the character... well, part of it. He went full mage after he and I conspired a cool event that lead to him becoming a woman without the Brick powers. Oh, it was dramatic (made even better since he was secretly playing along). The other players cheered. The Brick/Mage was now just a Mage... He (she) was still incredibly powerful and versatile but much more in line with the campaign.

 

On the other hand, I had a well-made Brick/Martial Artist (similar to The Beast) in my game. This character didn't take the Brick too far or the Martial Arts to the ultimate. He kept things within a 12DC range and was very fun to watch. He was always overpowered by larger Bricks but utilized his unique skills to even out the combat. I think the best thing about this character (and others like it) was that he was forced to use his head to think through a combat since any single thing he could do wasn't enough to get the job done.

 

I've never had a Superman or Martian Manhunter (thank goodness), so I don't know what that would be like. But I imagine it would be boring. Players need to be challenged. They need to struggle and use their brains to overcome obstacles that often seem insurmountable. When 1 player can do all the work it takes away the drama of the game.

[Murrkon5]

Re: One-Trick Pony Campaigns

 

Players need to be challenged. They need to struggle and use their brains to overcome obstacles that often seem insurmountable. When 1 player can do all the work it takes away the drama of the game.

 

"If anything is possible, nothing is interesting." H.G. Wells.

 

It's extremely demoralizing how may gamers have no concept of this axiom. Or, worst yet, deny it.

[The Souljourner]

Re: One-Trick Pony Campaigns

 

There's a rather fat line to walk between the guy who can do everything and the guy who can do nothing.

 

I built a superman type character on the 350 point scale, and he was insanely boring. Sure, he was almost always useful in a fight, but his options were "I hit it" or "I shoot it". And that was it. Boring.

 

Luckily, the game allowed him to be replaced, and my current character has much more interesting powers, control environment, entangle, flash, indirect EB.... fun stuff... totally not over powered, he can't do *everything* but he can do *enough* that he's useful and fun in almost any situation. Heck, just the control environment with variable effects is a great toolkit.

 

-Nate

[Blue]

Re: One-Trick Pony Campaigns

 

I guess this is a timely topic for me becuase I'm playing in a (non-champions) campaign right now that has a bit of this issue.

 

We're playing Vampire: Dark Ages. While I love my characters personality-wise, and the powers that they do have, it strikes me that everyone in the group (not just my characters) have two standard actions, and therefore very few options. A fight breaks out, I've got to pick whether to use one power or the other. If one fails, you better hope you can take them in Hand to Hand.

 

One of the two characters in the big fight was disabled in the first round by a villain, and the other was unable to succeed at power #1, so I wound up going all hack n' slash. It worked, mind you, but I really hate the lack of depth. Of course in that system you either have a bunch of really weak 1 or 2 dot powers or one power you keep paying XP for until it becomes useful.

 

It's sorta why when my players build champions characters I tell them they'll want DEF, Resistand DEF, and at least 3 attack forms (Like EB, Drain, KA; Martial Arts, KA, Ego attack; etc.) or they can run into people they have no hope of helping out on. Rest of their defenses, I tell them, are "as appropriate" to the character.

[transmetahuman]

Re: One-Trick Pony Campaigns

 

Thanks, folks (especially Supreme Serpent, for specific practical advice).

 

The idea I was exploring was that of a Blood-like but much larger family line, each scion of which developed a unique, pretty much magical, Xanth-type Talent. The world wouldn't be a typical supers universe; they wouldn't be up against foes any more well-rounded than themselves. It would probably have deemphasized combat a lot, since combat would often fall into a "whoever goes first wins, unless they happen to be able to counter your power with theirs" deal. The PCs wouldn't be crime-fighters, more just extended family pulled into the plot because of relationships or direct threat from the main group of antagonists (a pair whose in-family political power was based on being the only people whose Talents enabled them to promise extended/eternal youth - a healer and a bodyjacker - and their thralls). Skills would be encouraged; each would have only one supernatural power but that wasn't intended to make everyone useless if their power wasn't applicable. It might be better to think of it as a Heroic level game, except that the powers could be quite high-level in their specific ways.

 

I'm thinking now that the low incidence and all-or-nothing predisposition of combat would probably make this not very fun for most gamers. It might work for a short-term campaign, though.

 

I'm still interested in hearing about those LSH campaigns - did anyone have characters like the old school Legion, where you had "I can make things lighter and that's it" Girl, or "I can split into three bodies and that's it" Woman? Though I'd expect PCs to have stuff more on the level of versatility of Element Lad or Xanthian magicians like Iris or Dolph.

 

Which leads to the second big problem I foresee: powers like this are supposed to be nearly impossible to resist. If you're within 6 feet and Trent can see you, he can transform you. No saving throw, no power defense. I don't think Element Lad's shtick was resistable either; only his CvK prevented him from ending every fight by turning the villain into lead. If all you can do is one thing, it must be massively frustrating to do that thing and have it not work. But that exacerbates the whole problem with combats being "all or nothing".

 

Ah, well, the whole thing's moot until I find local gamers that can fit into my inconvenient work schedule anyway. I'll probably just go for a more typical supers campaign. I love working with powers that are limited in interesting ways, but this probably isn't the way to do it in a game.

[Bloodstone]

Re: One-Trick Pony Campaigns

 

If you're within 6 feet and Trent can see you, he can transform you. No saving throw, no power defense. I don't think Element Lad's shtick was resistable either; only his CvK prevented him from ending every fight by turning the villain into lead. If all you can do is one thing, it must be massively frustrating to do that thing and have it not work. But that exacerbates the whole problem with combats being "all or nothing".

 

All or nothing effects only really works if everyone is on board. Otherwise somone will inevitable come up with a concept that messes up the whole deal, on purpose or by accident.

 

Like Desolidification Lad or Dodges Everything Girl...

[David Johnston]

Re: One-Trick Pony Campaigns

 

I hit or I shoot it? What ever happened to grappling it? Or throwing it? Or improvised brawling and throwing weapons? Or ripping a pipe out of the wall to dowse it with water or grabbing hold of power cables and electrocuting it? It's my experience that the zappers need a multipower for variety's sake. Bricks not so much. There are so many things you can do with strength.

 

But as far as the original X-Men goes, they _should_ have Combat Luck. That's the whole point of the Danger Room, isn't it? While they may only have one "superpower" they also have their training based abilities.

[CrosshairCollie]

Re: One-Trick Pony Campaigns

 

All or nothing effects only really works if everyone is on board. Otherwise somone will inevitable come up with a concept that messes up the whole deal, on purpose or by accident.

 

Like Desolidification Lad or Dodges Everything Girl...

 

Or Phantom Girl.

[The Souljourner]

Re: One-Trick Pony Campaigns

 

All or nothing effects only really works if everyone is on board. Otherwise somone will inevitable come up with a concept that messes up the whole deal' date=' on purpose or by accident.[/quote']

 

Heh. Bink. Cheesy bastard

 

Player: But, but GM! It is balanced. No one can know about his power, even he doesn't know about it... and he'll be exiled from Xanth as a Mundane! He'll be on the run!

 

GM: Well.... I guess....

 

Yeah, that's really more of a Heroic level campaign with everyone getting 60 (or whatever) points to put into one power.

 

I think it could be fun, but you really shouldn't think of it as a superhero campaign, since combat will generally be on the level of heroic campaigns.

 

Could be fun.

 

-Nate

[Manic Typist]

Re: One-Trick Pony Campaigns

 

"If anything is possible, nothing is interesting." H.G. Wells.

 

It's extremely demoralizing how may gamers have no concept of this axiom. Or, worst yet, deny it.

 

 

I would argue that if anything is possible, but not plausible, then things can be quite interesting.

 

 

 

When can you declare that you are going to roll with a punch, by the way?

[Cold Steel]

Re: One-Trick Pony Campaigns

 

I think this information would be cool for a Teen Champions campaign. I mean all heroes got to start somewhere.

[CrosshairCollie]

Re: One-Trick Pony Campaigns

 

When can you declare that you are going to roll with a punch' date=' by the way?[/quote']

 

IIRC, after it's been declared that you've been hit, before the damage dice are thrown.