best place to look for riding

[Oneway]

where is the best place to look for rules covering riding (horse or horse like) while in combat?

 

last time i looked i was less then thrilled with what Hero had to offer in this area.

not a shot at Hero, after all there shall be no game system before Hero.

just that the last time i read a Fantasy Hero book cover to cover it was sitting next to my new copy of DI.

(okay, maybe not that long ago. but, close)

[tgrandjean]

Re: best place to look for riding

 

Hero System Fifth Edition Revised: p.68 Riding Skill, p.72 Transport Familiarities, p.368-369 Mounted Movement and Combat Example, p.454 Horse (Light Warhorse)

[Labrat]

Re: best place to look for riding

 

If you can be patient, I'm sure The Ultimate Skill will cover it nicely. Other than that I'd say check out the new FH since there is no Western Hero yet.

[keithcurtis]

Re: best place to look for riding

 

Hero System Fifth Edition Revised: p.68 Riding Skill' date=' p.72 Transport Familiarities, p.368-369 Mounted Movement and Combat Example, p.454 Horse (Light Warhorse)[/quote']

Thanks. I'm going to print that out and tape it to the inside of my 5ER. That being said, the rules are a confusing tree of if-thens. At least to me. I tried to make a simplified chart of the conditions once and nearly went mad.

 

If anyone could sum it up into one neat parapgraph or table, that would be cool. I'd rep them in a heartbeat.

 

Keith "can't wrap my mind around it" Curtis

[prestidigitator]

Re: best place to look for riding

 

Thanks. I'm going to print that out and tape it to the inside of my 5ER. That being said, the rules are a confusing tree of if-thens. At least to me. I tried to make a simplified chart of the conditions once and nearly went mad.

 

If anyone could sum it up into one neat parapgraph or table, that would be cool. I'd rep them in a heartbeat.

 

Keith "can't wrap my mind around it" Curtis

Well, this is my understanding. I'm a programmer, and this pseudo-code is about the best I can come up with. Maybe it will make sense. Maybe not. (Thanks for asking about this. I think I have some questions for Steve; see below....) [EDIT: Oops. Figued out part of it. Pseudo-code fixed.]

mount.isCombatTrained = (mount.pre >= 15) || (mount.hasSkill("riding"));

onScheduledRiderPhase
  (rider, mount, riderSegment, riderDex, mountSegment, mountDex)
{
  if (mount.holdingTillRidersPhases)
  {
     mountSegment = riderSegment;
     mountDex     = riderDex;
  }

  if (!mount.isCombatTrained)
  {
     mount.canAttack = false;
     rider.ocvHalved = true;

     if (rider.firstHalfPhaseAction != Action.ATTEMPT_TO_CONTROL_MOUNT ||
         !rider.makeRidingRoll())
     {
        if (rider.makeRidingRoll())
        {
           mount.halfMoveFlee();
           return; // Rider is done
        } else
        {
           mount.throwRider();
           // return (rider done)?
        }
     }
  } else
  {
     mount.canAttack = true;
  }

  rider.ocvPenalties += -2;
  rider.ocvPenalties += gmsWhim(mount.ocvPenalties);

  if ( == )
  {
     if (mount.secondHalfPhase.isAttackAction())
     {
        mount.performFirstHalfPhase();
        if (rider.makeRidingRoll())
        {
           mount.performSecondHalfPhase();
        }
     } else
     {
        mount.performPhase();
     }
  }

  if (rider.secondHalfPhase.isAttackAction() && !rider.target.isMounted)
  {
     rider.hitLocationChart = highShotHitLocations;
  }

  rider.performSecondHalfPhase();  // Wait.  What happened to the rider's
                                   // first Half-Phase if the mount is
                                   // trained?  No idea.
}

onScheduledMountPhase
  (rider, mount, riderSegment, riderDex, mountSegment, mountDex)
{
  if ( == )
  {
     return;  // Mounts actions were covered in onScheduledRiderPhase()
  }

  if (rider.attemptingToCoaxMount)
  {
     rider.movementMode = Movement.NON_COMBAT;
     rider.dcvHalved    = true;

     if (rider.makeRidingRoll())
     {
        mount.performPhase();  // Move, attack, whatever
     } else
     {
        if (gmWhim())
        {
           mount.moveInUndesiredDirection();
        } else
        {
           return;  // No movement.  Done.
        }
     }
  }
}

onMountDamaged
  (rider, mount, damage, knockback)
{
  if (gmsWhim(mount.isCombatTrained, damage, damage.body >= 5) &&
      !rider.makeRidingRoll())
  {
     mount.setNextPhase(FLEE_AS_FAST_AS_POSSIBLE);
  }

  if (knockback > 0)
  {
     mount.fallDown();
     mount.takeKnockbackDamage(knockback);

     if (!rider.makeRidingRoll())
     {
        rider.fallDown();
        rider.takeKnockbackDamage(knockback);
     }
  }
}

onRiderDamaged
  (rider, knockback)
{
  if (rider.makeRidingRoll(-knockback/2))
  {
     knockback = 0;  // Rider stays in saddle; takes no knockback
  } else
  {
     rider.dismount();  // Rather forcefully, actually
  }
}

onMountKnockedOut
  (rider, mount)
{
  mount.fallDown();

  if (!rider.makeRidingRoll())
  {
     rider.fallDown();
     // rider.takeFallingDamage() ?
  }
}

Riding Skill as free infinite RSR Knockback Resistance? Apparently....

[keithcurtis]

Re: best place to look for riding

 

Great work!

 

The rules are a little complex, eh?

 

Keith "needs simplicity" Curtis

[prestidigitator]

Re: best place to look for riding

 

I've posted a question to Steve about the rider's first Half-Phase when riding a trained mount.

[Doug Limmer]

Re: best place to look for riding

 

The rules are a little complex' date=' eh?[/quote']They don't seem to be any worse than the "when can you add damage to a weapon attack, and how much?" rules. I still haven't figured those out.

[Savinien]

Re: best place to look for riding

 

Anybody got a non-programming language version?

 

Maybe a flow-chart, or something?

[Lethosos]

Re: best place to look for riding

 

The Ultimate Vehicle Handbook has all the rules about vehicular combat. Simply apply Combat Driving to the equine in question.

[Lucius]

Re: best place to look for riding

 

Anybody got a non-programming language version?

 

Maybe a flow-chart, or something?

 

Yeah, what he said. Can this be expressed in English?

 

They don't seem to be any worse than the "when can you add damage to a weapon attack' date=' and how much?" rules. I still haven't figured those out.[/quote']

 

Yeah, what he said. Don’t even get me started on the adding damage rules….

 

Lucius Alexander

 

Riding: Palindromedary, PS: Palindromedary Rider, Animal Handler: Palindromedary

[prestidigitator]

Re: best place to look for riding

 

Yeah' date=' what he said. Can this be expressed in English?[/quote']

The book did that. Eh? Hey, I had a disclaimer that it may or may not be useful for ya.

[prestidigitator]

Re: best place to look for riding

 

Okay. Given Steve's answer, here is my understanding of the complex part (what kind of actions the rider and mount can take; I haven't updated the pseudo-code):

• Untrained Mount:
  
  1. The rider must take a Half-Phase and roll to control the mount (if not, it either throws him or flees and his Phase is over; this is arbitrated with another Riding roll).
     
  2. If he successfully controls it, the mount may not attack but may otherwise perform a Full Phase worth of actions.
     
  3. The rider can do whatever with his other Half-Phase.

  [*]Trained Mount:

  1. If the mount does nothing, the rider may take a normal Full Phase (but obviously cannot move and stay mounted at the same time). Otherwise:
     
  2. The rider must take a Half-Phase to control the mount (no roll required at this point). The mount may take its first Half-Phase.
     
  3. If the rider wishes the mount to take a Full Phase of actions, a riding roll is required. If this involves two actions or a Full Move, the roll is made after the first Half-Phase (or after the first Half-Move).
     
  4. The rider may do as he wishes with his other Half-Phase (but he might be screwed if he was depending on the mount making a Full Move and he failed the roll).

This all assumes the rider and mount are acting at precisely the same time (Segment and Dex).

 

If not, the rider may take normal Full Phases independently of the mount's Phases, but obviously cannot both move and stay mounted during these Phases. The mount may act during its Phases (any that don't match with the rider's) if the rider makes a Riding Roll, but if so the rider is considered to be moving at Non-Combat Velocity (and is thus at 1/2 DCV). I assume the rider must still take a Half-Phase to control the mount, lest it panic in its Phase if untrained or simply not act in its Phase if trained. I'm not sure how many of the rider's Phases have this requirement if the mount and rider have different Speeds. I'll ask Steve on this one.

[ghost-angel]

Re: best place to look for riding

 

Yeah, what he said. Don’t even get me started on the adding damage rules….

 

Lucius Alexander

 

Riding: Palindromedary, PS: Palindromedary Rider, Animal Handler: Palindromedary

reminds me .. NASA contacted me last week, their engineers should have the Adding Damage in Hero report back to me later this month.

[ghost-angel]

Re: best place to look for riding

 

Riding skill is covered:

 

Riding Horses - Hero Bestiary p168-69

Riding (Skill) - 5ER p68; SideKick p28; Hero Bestiary p14-15; Fantasy Hero p94; Star Hero p46; Pulp Hero p257

Riding Animals - Pulp Hero p149

[sbarron]

Re: best place to look for riding

 

Okay. Given Steve's answer, here is my understanding of the complex part (what kind of actions the rider and mount can take; I haven't updated the pseudo-code):

• Untrained Mount:
  
  1. The rider must take a Half-Phase and roll to control the mount (if not, it either throws him or flees and his Phase is over; this is arbitrated with another Riding roll).
     
  2. If he successfully controls it, the mount may not attack but may otherwise perform a Full Phase worth of actions.
     
  3. The rider can do whatever with his other Half-Phase.

  [*]Trained Mount:

  1. If the mount does nothing, the rider may take a normal Full Phase (but obviously cannot move and stay mounted at the same time). Otherwise:
     
  2. The rider must take a Half-Phase to control the mount (no roll required at this point). The mount may take its first Half-Phase.
     
  3. If the rider wishes the mount to take a Full Phase of actions, a riding roll is required. If this involves two actions or a Full Move, the roll is made after the first Half-Phase (or after the first Half-Move).
     
  4. The rider may do as he wishes with his other Half-Phase (but he might be screwed if he was depending on the mount making a Full Move and he failed the roll).

This all assumes the rider and mount are acting at precisely the same time (Segment and Dex).

Wow! Dealing with all this during party-wide mounted combat would be a nightmare.

 

I think I'll hand wave this and just say -2 to Riding Roll with untrained mount, +2 with trained mount, and force the mount and PC to act in the whichever phase is higher in combat, and whichever is lower for non-combat movement.

 

Or maybe I'll just let the PCs use the trained mounts running inches and use the PCs phases in combat. I'd rule horses don't attack during mounted combat (too busy being ridden), and untrained horses just flee combat in general. Complexity is just not fun for me, anymore.

[keithcurtis]

Re: best place to look for riding

 

Awesome distillation, prestidigitator!

I'd rep ya, if'n I hadn't just done so.

 

Keith "The English won the battle of Agincourt because there are no rules for adding Str damage to a bow, and the French were unable to act while trying to decipher the combat Riding rules." Curtis

[prestidigitator]

Re: best place to look for riding

 

According to Steve, the rider must spend Half-Phases to control the mount on a number of Phases equal to the minimum of his Phases or the mount's Phases. Makes sense. If you are twice as fast as your mount, you should be able to keep ahead of it enough to get a bit done.

[Korvar]

Re: best place to look for riding

 

I, also, must spread Rep around before I can Rep prestidigitator.