Can a Follower be bought with a Focus Limitation?

[Rkane_1]

If someone has a Follower like a Computer or, in this case, a walking cane inhabited by the spirit of his old granpa, can the follower be bought with a Focus Limitation?

[ghost-angel]

Re: Can a Follower be bought with a Focus Limitation?

 

I woud probably allow it if appropriate.

 

Though, depending on what the Follower provides, the "personality" may merely be SFX for something else.... I'd have to see the write up.

[TheRavenIs]

Re: Can a Follower be bought with a Focus Limitation?

 

I have done that, do it actually all the time. So yes it can be a computer, a imaterial spirit that can't be harmed under normal conditions. Yes it can be built as a focus, might take some working to do it, but yes.

 

I have played Champions/Hero for almost as long as it has existed. So I've done alot that others might not allow.

[Rapier]

Re: Can a Follower be bought with a Focus Limitation?

 

Certainly!

 

I've had characters with Followers that were semi-sentient vehicles and the like.

[Ndreare]

Re: Can a Follower be bought with a Focus Limitation?

 

Just to be clear I think you are asking if the following would be legal.

 

10: Follower: 100 points (OAF Staff -1) 20 Active Points

 

As a GM I would not allow it without very careful overlooking. However you may want to chack with Steve in the Rules forum.

 

I can see some situations where it would be apropriate like in the Case of a

 

25: Staff of Shadows Followers: 200 point X4 Number of Followers. Allows the wielder to command the four Shades of Belinar. (OAF Staff -1) 50 Active points

[cutsleeve]

Re: Can a Follower be bought with a Focus Limitation?

 

well normally you would buy the follower with all the features of the item you wanted. Like using disadvantages to simulate his size, shape, and level mobility. and powers, skills, and talents to simulate what he can do.

 

For instance a sentient combat computer that floats around the character would be built like a normal character. He would have limitations to simulate that he is the size of a basketball without arems legs or noticable appendages. He would be given a small computer of his own to handle computative stuff and to simulate his digital side. Other then that he would be lots of skills UBO. He would also have psychological limitations to show how much of a snarky little bastard he is.

[Rkane_1]

Re: Can a Follower be bought with a Focus Limitation?

 

The character in question uses African Soul Magic but his Grandfather was a Jamaican Voudun whose spirit is tethered to a walking stick. Granpa has a gambling problem and is actually going to get the character in trouble a bit but he does have some helpful skills. Convincing him to USE them is a different matter. I just need to know how to build it.

 

I also have a computer in a set of armor I am asking about as well.

[Ndreare]

Re: Can a Follower be bought with a Focus Limitation?

 

You could consider the following as an option for such a construct.

 

23: Grandpa's Staff: Summon 200-point creatures, Friendly (+1/4), Reduced Endurance (0 END; +1/2) (70 Active Points); OAF (-1), NCC (Only Effects cannot be controlled; -1)

 

 

This would be to show that you do not control when papa is around or what he is doing. But you can chat with him and ask him things. The GM would use the NCC -1 to show grandpa decides when to help and when not to.

[David Johnston]

Re: Can a Follower be bought with a Focus Limitation?

 

As far as I'm concerned, followers can already be kidnapped or destroyed, so the focus limitation is inherent in Follower and can't be taken twice. But the Summon approach might work better anyway.

[Warp9]

Re: Can a Follower be bought with a Focus Limitation?

 

As far as I'm concerned' date=' followers can already be kidnapped or destroyed, so the focus limitation is inherent in Follower and can't be taken twice.[/quote']

I agree with David on this one. I would not allow you to take a follower as a focus.

[radioKAOS]

Re: Can a Follower be bought with a Focus Limitation?

 

I agree with David on this one. I would not allow you to take a follower as a focus.

 

But would you allow a computer as a focus?

 

They are built this way by Steve on more than one occasion.... [Not to say you can't disagree, just stating that it has precedent.]

 

And what would a comp[uter be like without the focus limitation?

[Warp9]

Re: Can a Follower be bought with a Focus Limitation?

 

But would you allow a computer as a focus?

 

They are built this way by Steve on more than one occasion.... [Not to say you can't disagree, just stating that it has precedent.]

 

And what would a comp[uter be like without the focus limitation?

I haven't seen the specific builds you have mentioned. However, Steve defines what is legal with the system, so if we really are in disagreement on this issue, then he is the one to listen to.

 

I do not have my book around, and I'll admit that I haven't used the computer rules a great deal--so I don't have them memorized. I may be totally wrong about how computers work.

 

As far as I can recall, computers are somewhat like followers; I assume that they are independent entities by default. You get a point break on a focus because it can be taken away. A follower can always be taken away, so IMO asking for a limitation value on those points in unfair.

 

There are ways in which I'd agree that a computer might be built as a focus:

 

For example, I could buy +3 Skill levels with Tactics for my Character, and put the following limitation on this ability: OAF "Hand Held Tactical Computer"

 

IMO that would be a computer as a focus.

[Lucius]

Re: Can a Follower be bought with a Focus Limitation?

 

But would you allow a computer as a focus?

 

They are built this way by Steve on more than one occasion.... [Not to say you can't disagree, just stating that it has precedent.]

 

And what would a comp[uter be like without the focus limitation?

 

EXCELLENT QUESTION

 

Lucius Alexander

 

Appearing on the palindromedary's sheet as a follower

[cutsleeve]

Re: Can a Follower be bought with a Focus Limitation?

 

Originally Posted by radioKAOS

But would you allow a computer as a focus?

 

They are built this way by Steve on more than one occasion.... [Not to say you can't disagree, just stating that it has precedent.]

 

And what would a comp[uter be like without the focus limitation?

 

A computer without the focus limitation would be sorta like an internal processor. Think cyberpunk where you might have a tactical advisor suite that give you targeting, situation analysis, and logistical management. In fantasy terms it could be a magical spirit that acts as a tour guide for the character. It has information about the various realms and the social lay out. It then answers questions you pose to it.

[Dr. Anomaly]

Re: Can a Follower be bought with a Focus Limitation?

 

Just thought I'd toss this out there; it may give you a few ideas:

 

Citizen Cane

[ghost-angel]

Re: Can a Follower be bought with a Focus Limitation?

 

Before you want to know about building this as a Follower or Not you have to ask..

 

Is Grandpa Walking Stick an independant entity?

Can he take STUN, etc?

 

If all you're looking for is really a Personality-In-A-Stick then you probably want a Computer with a Focus Limitation. Which is more appropriate.

[Dust Raven]

Re: Can a Follower be bought with a Focus Limitation?

 

Followers like a computer, or the spirt of Uncle Bob trapped inside your golf club, are fine with the Focus Limitation. Followers like your pet robot, or Uncle Larry who's a relatively normal human being, no. The difference is in how each of these types of Followers can be affected by other characters. In the case of the computer or spirit, without the Focus Limitation, neither can be affected directly without some funky Power specifically designed to do so, but the Follower who is designed like any other character (or automaton) can be affected by other characters normally.

[Hyper-Man]

Re: Can a Follower be bought with a Focus Limitation?

 

What about something like the old TV show "I Dream of Jeanie"?

 

Can the Lamp be taken as a focus limitation on Jeanie as a Follower of Major Nelson or does the focus limitation only apply to Jeanie's magical powers?

[Rapier]

Re: Can a Follower be bought with a Focus Limitation?

 

Followers like a computer' date=' or the spirt of Uncle Bob trapped inside your golf club, are fine with the Focus Limitation. Followers like your pet robot, or Uncle Larry who's a relatively normal human being, no. The difference is in how each of these types of Followers can be affected by other characters. In the case of the computer or spirit, without the Focus Limitation, neither can be affected directly without some funky Power specifically designed to do so, but the Follower who is designed like any other character (or automaton) can be affected by other characters normally.[/quote']

 

Yep. Them's pretty much my thoughts exac-tic-ally.

 

I can understand Steve's straight up "No." It makes sense. A Follower is intended to be a separate entity and already has a physical presence so shouldn't get an additional bonus (the Focus limitation) on cost, which has already been discounted as per Follower rules.

 

But some things, like a computer, I don't think have the utility required to pay full up points for. I guess what I'm saying is that in my campaigns we have expanded the purpose of Followers (possibly past the intent Steve ever had) to include some concepts that kind, in fact, use a legitimate Focus lim.

 

I'll admit it's pretty rare to run into one of these constructs but it happens every once in a while.

[radioKAOS]

Re: Can a Follower be bought with a Focus Limitation?

 

Yep. Them's pretty much my thoughts exac-tic-ally.

 

I can understand Steve's straight up "No." It makes sense. A Follower is intended to be a separate entity and already has a physical presence so shouldn't get an additional bonus (the Focus limitation) on cost, which has already been discounted as per Follower rules.

 

But some things, like a computer, I don't think have the utility required to pay full up points for. I guess what I'm saying is that in my campaigns we have expanded the purpose of Followers (possibly past the intent Steve ever had) to include some concepts that kind, in fact, use a legitimate Focus lim.

 

I'll admit it's pretty rare to run into one of these constructs but it happens every once in a while.

 

Some people think it's far too much of cost break, the 1/5 for a follower or computer, then adding [subtracting as the case may be] the Focus limitation makes it a very sweet deal.

 

On the Computer without focus issue, is it too much of a cost break? It's legal to buy powers, skills and talents through the computer, and so long as you have UBO/UAA you can affect the main character with it.... So now your gadgeteer or mage or whatever can get close to 100pts worth of stuff for the cost of 20pts.

[ghost-angel]

Re: Can a Follower be bought with a Focus Limitation?

 

On the Computer without focus issue' date=' is it too much of a cost break? It's legal to buy powers, skills and talents through the computer, and so long as you have UBO/UAA you can affect the main character with it.... So now your gadgeteer or mage or whatever can get close to 100pts worth of stuff for the cost of 20pts.[/quote']

Computers through focii I definitely allow. But like anything you just have to watch it's use and make sure any potential abuse is dealt with appropriately.

[Rapier]

Re: Can a Follower be bought with a Focus Limitation?

 

Some people think it's far too much of cost break' date=' the 1/5 for a follower or computer, then adding [subtracting as the case may be'] the Focus limitation makes it a very sweet deal.

 

On the Computer without focus issue, is it too much of a cost break? It's legal to buy powers, skills and talents through the computer, and so long as you have UBO/UAA you can affect the main character with it.... So now your gadgeteer or mage or whatever can get close to 100pts worth of stuff for the cost of 20pts.

 

Can't disagree with any of that. It's one of those that is gonna be a GMs call and it would depend ENTIRELY on the build. Computer A might make it and Computer B definately won't.

 

Part of the issue I always run into is breaking things and people. People (I should say characters -- be they computers, vehicles or beings) break different than objects.

[sbarron]

Re: Can a Follower be bought with a Focus Limitation?

 

Followers like a computer' date=' or the spirt of Uncle Bob trapped inside your golf club, are fine with the Focus Limitation. Followers like your pet robot, or Uncle Larry who's a relatively normal human being, no. The difference is in how each of these types of Followers can be affected by other characters. In the case of the computer or spirit, without the Focus Limitation, neither can be affected directly without some funky Power specifically designed to do so, but the Follower who is designed like any other character (or automaton) can be affected by other characters normally.[/quote']By funky you mean RKA or EB? Uncle Bob trapped inside a golf club has a golf club for a body. Uncle Larry has a human body. They are the same to the character that buys them except they have different looking bodies.

 

Why wouldn't Uncle Larry in his human body get the same OAF as Uncle Bob? He is obviously a follower, you can grab him, so he's accessible, and he's the focus needed for the character to tap his abilities. If it's good for the golf club, it should be good for the the human body.

 

No one will suspect the golf club is actually Uncle Bob, so no one will think to kidnap him. Advantage Uncle Bob. Uncle Larry can walk around, advantage Uncle Larry. It seems to me that this should be a wash, that the advantages and disadvantages between these two would be different, but have a similar impact on the game. Therefore, I'd say no to an OAF follower.

[prestidigitator]

Re: Can a Follower be bought with a Focus Limitation?

 

With a Follower there is already the assumption that it is a real person and may not be accessible 100% of the time. I think one that happens to be carried around in an item is actually likely to be more accessible than one who isn't. The Focus Limitation? No. If anything it is an Advantage, but I'd probably just leave it unmodified.

 

With a Computer there is some sense that it is a, "slave," of the character's; it is accessible whenever the character needs it (EDIT: unless maybe it is an AI? but then you really have to buy it some kind of capable body for it to be able to do much on its own, and then it is assumed to be 100% availabe to that body...). By default it could be built into his head or mystically attached to him. If there is an easy way to seperate it from the character that might be worth a Focus Limitation.

 

It's a matter of what the default assumptions are.

[Dust Raven]

Re: Can a Follower be bought with a Focus Limitation?

 

By funky you mean RKA or EB? Uncle Bob trapped inside a golf club has a golf club for a body. Uncle Larry has a human body. They are the same to the character that buys them except they have different looking bodies.

 

Why wouldn't Uncle Larry in his human body get the same OAF as Uncle Bob? He is obviously a follower, you can grab him, so he's accessible, and he's the focus needed for the character to tap his abilities. If it's good for the golf club, it should be good for the the human body.

Please reread my post. I believe you missed the part where I said "without the Focus Limitation..." you'd need a funky build. No Focus, no golf club. Uncle Bob is just there, floating invulnerably near you to lend you his ancient and profound wisdom.

 

No one will suspect the golf club is actually Uncle Bob, so no one will think to kidnap him. Advantage Uncle Bob. Uncle Larry can walk around, advantage Uncle Larry. It seems to me that this should be a wash, that the advantages and disadvantages between these two would be different, but have a similar impact on the game. Therefore, I'd say no to an OAF follower.

I don't recall stating that Uncle Bob's golf club was an inconspicuous item that never seemed to do anything. Think of The Bowler from Mystery Men. Dads spirit possessed a bowling ball. The bowling ball had a human skull in it, floated around, and the character constantly talked to it. Pretty damn obvious. I figure it's be the same with the golf club, unless all of the Powers and methods of communications were specifically bought to be invisible (which increases the cost, not lowers it).

 

And it's not always a case of kidnapping, though that is the most obvious possiblility. Foci are occasionally breakable, and even the unbreakable kind can be broken in special circumstances. There's also the issue of utility. If the focus is universal, than whoever possess the focus is in command of the Follower it holds (and the Follower by default would be loyal to who ever used the universal focus). This is more appropriate for things like computers (the SFX, not the game mechanic; everything I'm talking about is a Computer/AI construct), which are utilities more than they are characters, but could just as easily be applied to any SFX of the Computer/AI mechanic.