Running as Swimming

[Dust Raven]

Quick question for you all:

 

If I buy Running Usable As Swimming, and intend it's use for the surface only (which seems logical to me), should this character be able to stand upon relatively calm water, as in not maintaining any kind of speed? I'm thinking he should, after all, he's still limited to 2D movement and you can stand just fine on the surfaces Running normally works on, but I wanted a second opinion just in case I'm more than a little off on how I'm thinking this out.

 

Thanks!

[Bloodstone]

Re: Running as Swimming

 

Can a boat float? Cause last I checked, that was a prime example of surface only Swimming and they don't sink when they stop moving

 

However, it really depends on the SFX. Somone that "balances" on the surface of the water, like a kung fu master or a ninja, can possibly get away with standing still on water. However, if this is a Super Speedster type character I would shy away from it. When the Flash or Quicksilver isn't running at 200+ MPH, they sink just like everyone else. But, they can both use their superspeed underwater if they needed to...

 

Course, if you have boots made of this stuff...

[Dust Raven]

Re: Running as Swimming

 

The character is a psychokinetic that uses his powers to alter the surface tension of the water so he can run on it. This definately isn't usable underwater (though he should be able to pull himself to a standing possition should he fall in). For actual Running, he uses the power to push against the surface he's running on to move faster.

[Bloodstone]

Re: Running as Swimming

 

I'd definitly let him stand on water then. Some might question how well it wold work on moving water though.

 

Can he run/climb up a waterfall?

[Ockham's Spoon]

Re: Running as Swimming

 

I'm with Bloodstone; it depends on the SFX, but by default I would say it does allow you to stand on the water. Is there some reason you are not buying this as Swimming only on surfaces? It would be cheaper.

 

This topic does make me wonder if Hero shouldn't have a generic movement power that you put advantages and limitations on to reflect the nature of the movement. In a Champions campaign in particular you end up having lots of cross-over movement powers, like your running on water example, that would benefit from such a setup. Also, having Flight and Running cost the same per 1" makes Running seem like a ripoff since Flight is inherently more useful (Turn Mode restrictions or not).

 

I guess it is more intuitive to buy a movement power by name rather than a generic "Move" and modify it as needed. Maybe I should be looking at this part of the versatile, flexible beauty of the system that you can build a given power in as many different ways as it suits you rather than harping on slightly skewed point costs. Maybe I should shouldn't post before finishing my morning coffee.

 

________________________________________________________

"Some people spread joy wherever they go. Others, whenever they go." - Oscar Wilde

[Dust Raven]

Re: Running as Swimming

 

I'm with Bloodstone; it depends on the SFX' date=' but by default I would say it does allow you to stand on the water. Is there some reason you are not buying this as Swimming only on surfaces? It would be cheaper.[/quote']

 

Because I'm buying it Running, Usable As Swimming. Given the rate he'll be moving at, it's cheaper to buy it with the Advantage.

 

Ah crap... I gotta buy this as a Naked Advantage for his base Running don't I?

[Bloodstone]

Re: Running as Swimming

 

This topic does make me wonder if Hero shouldn't have a generic movement power that you put advantages and limitations on to reflect the nature of the movement.

 

I and probably a few others asked for this to be included in the Ultimate Speedster. I don't know if it made the cut or not. I know Steve did a Hero Glyphs article about it many moons ago, but I don't have the issue of Digital Hero so I'm not sure how the pricing structure was done...

[CrosshairCollie]

Re: Running as Swimming

 

Because I'm buying it Running, Usable As Swimming. Given the rate he'll be moving at, it's cheaper to buy it with the Advantage.

 

Ah crap... I gotta buy this as a Naked Advantage for his base Running don't I?

 

Not necessarily, though you obviously can't use the base 6" of Running when you're on water in that case.

 

(So, say, if you bought +20" Running-as-Swimming, you'd run on solid surfaces at 26" and on water at 20".)

[ghost-angel]

Re: Running as Swimming

 

Because I'm buying it Running, Usable As Swimming. Given the rate he'll be moving at, it's cheaper to buy it with the Advantage.

 

Ah crap... I gotta buy this as a Naked Advantage for his base Running don't I?

No, just buy it like you normally would.

 

If you're using Hero Designer then just click the "apply to base stat" button in the Running Power dialogue. Buying Advantages for base characteristics don't use Naked Advantages, you just cost the Advantage off the Active Point of the Base Characteristic and pay that much.

[Rapier]

Re: Running as Swimming

 

Well you already answered a bunch of my questions (eg Whats the SFX).

 

I'm a real fan of Naked Advantages for fun builds lately. I would purchase it like this:

 

Just Call Me Carl Lewis: +19" Running (25" Total)

Walking on Water: Naked Advantage for 25" Running (Usable as Swimming, Surface Only)

 

This allows him to use his normal running just like everyone else. He doesn't spend any more END than anyone else while running across a parking lot. When he wants to run on water he "turns on" his Surface Tension power (the naked advantage) and expends more effort to cross water.

 

In this instance, it's the Usable as Swimming that really answers your question. This basically turns his Running into Swimming and would allow him to remain on the surface no matter if he was moving or not.

[Dust Raven]

Re: Running as Swimming

 

I like that, Rapier. That's probably just what I'm looking for as a way to build this Power, and something that didn't even occur to me. I hate Naked Advantages by default, but this looks just right. Repped.

[bigdamnhero]

Re: Running as Swimming

 

I'm a real fan of Naked Advantages for fun builds lately.

You know, Naked Advantages used to really make me nervous, but the more I play with them the more I like `em. All of them need careful GM review, of course, to make sure they don't unbalance things, but they're great for "fun builds" as you say.

 

So if you'd asked me six months ago, I would've said buy Running As Swimming, or Swimming Only On The Surface. Now, I'd build it the way you suggested. Oh, I might add Increased END if the character's psychokinesis normally burns END, since he has to use the power in addition to just running.

[mattingly]

Re: Running as Swimming

 

This brings up a point I hadn't considered before, about the Usable As Other Form Of Movement advantage. Suppose I have Running Usable As Swimming, as above, and am Running/Swimming across the surface of a pond. If someone wanted to cancel my movement, should they buy Drain Swimming? If so, what happens when I get onto land -- has my Running also been Drained?

[CrosshairCollie]

Re: Running as Swimming

 

This brings up a point I hadn't considered before' date=' about the Usable As Other Form Of Movement advantage. Suppose I have Running Usable As Swimming, as above, and am Running/Swimming across the surface of a pond. If someone wanted to cancel my movement, should they buy Drain Swimming? If so, what happens when I get onto land -- has my Running also been Drained?[/quote']

 

"Dammit, stop trying to apply logic to my actions, it just screws me up!"

--Mega Man

[Dust Raven]

Re: Running as Swimming

 

This brings up a point I hadn't considered before' date=' about the Usable As Other Form Of Movement advantage. Suppose I have Running Usable As Swimming, as above, and am Running/Swimming across the surface of a pond. If someone wanted to cancel my movement, should they buy Drain Swimming? If so, what happens when I get onto land -- has my Running also been Drained?[/quote']

 

I would think a Drain Swimming wouldn't work on any form of the Running Power. It would be like saying Drain TK worked on Flight UAA.

[Rapier]

Re: Running as Swimming

 

This brings up a point I hadn't considered before' date=' about the Usable As Other Form Of Movement advantage. Suppose I have Running Usable As Swimming, as above, and am Running/Swimming across the surface of a pond. If someone wanted to cancel my movement, should they buy Drain Swimming? If so, what happens when I get onto land -- has my Running also been Drained?[/quote']

 

SFX, my good man, SFX. If the SFX of Drain Swimming is turn Water into Jello, then no. No effect on Running on land.

 

As a rule of thumb, I would say yes, Drain Swimming should effect Running As Swimming, but only the Swimming part.

[ghost-angel]

Re: Running as Swimming

 

You know' date=' Naked Advantages used to really make me nervous, but the more I play with them the more I like `em. All of them need careful GM review, of course, to make sure they don't unbalance things, but they're great for "fun builds" as you say.[/quote']

Naked Advantages are the absolute coolest addition in 5E. I latched onto that sucker the second I read it.

 

I've tried it all over the place in various ways... it's great.

/derail

[Rapier]

Re: Running as Swimming

 

Naked Advantages are the absolute coolest addition in 5E. I latched onto that sucker the second I read it.

 

I've tried it all over the place in various ways... it's great.

/derail

 

I agree. There are a couple of notable OH MY GOD I LOVE IT moments with 5E. Naked Advantages, TwoWeapon Fighting, MPAs. Those were the big ones for me.

 

Naked Advantages are so much more sleek and "appropriate" than all the funky work around of partially limited powers we have been using for all those years. The worst part is that it is such a simple concept that it seems silly for us not to have been thinking of it years ago.

[prestidigitator]

Re: Running as Swimming

 

If I buy Running Usable As Swimming' date=' and intend it's use for the surface only (which seems logical to me), should this character be able to stand upon relatively calm water, as in not maintaining any kind of speed?[/quote']

I'd say yes by default, but:

1. You'd have to use at least 0" of Running to keep from sinking. This is different from not using it at all because any Limited Power type Limitations would still have to meet their conditions (so if it is Not During a Full Moon (-1/4) and there is a full moon, then sorry but you're sinking) and the use of the Power would cost at least 1 End.
   
2. You could buy a Stall Velocity for it just like for Flight/Gliding on a Vehicle (5ER p. 464), or some similar Limitation such as Must Move At Least One Hex (-0).