How to build: instant learning

[Threnody]

How would you build the following, using only the rules as written, with no "GM permission" or "stretching the rules a little"?

 

QuickGrrl can watch anyone perform any Skill for a full Turn, and thereupon be able to do the Skill at the same level as the person she watched. She can learn another Skill the same way anytime, but loses the Skill she had before.

 

I can't see any way to do it, if Skill in VPP or sped up Cramming is forbidden (both are against the rules as written). Anybody see what I don't?

[ghost-angel]

Re: How to build: instant learning

 

You're pretty much in GM Territory there, it's not really part of the rules for a character to have a rotating skill like that - far too much ability to kill a plot/munchkin things to death.

[ideasmith]

Re: How to build: instant learning

 

Buy every skill that exists in the gameworld. Then apply limits as needed. That's the only way I can see that fits your specifications. It requires GM cooperation, since there is no other way to get a complete list of skills in the gameworld.

[OddHat]

Re: How to build: instant learning

 

The semi-official way to do this is with a skill VPP and GM's permission.

 

A massive list of skills with a -1 limit of "Must have recently seen skill performed" could work, as could a bunch of overall levels with the same limit. It could also just be the SFX of your skill list.

 

Still, I'd go with the Skill VPP.

[ghost-angel]

Re: How to build: instant learning

 

The Skill VPP is the best way. It does require "GM Permission" but it is the best way to accomplish this goal.

[pinecone]

Re: How to build: instant learning

 

Yeah the only way to even come close is a bunch of basic skills, then a bunch of PSL's, Well, chemestry is really just part of physics...Yeah, at -5 it is!...Cool, no penalty then....Then Buy Lockout, and "Can I get a witness" (only usable after seeing it, and it fades)...GM "OK" is going to be far easier....

[Dust Raven]

Re: How to build: instant learning

 

Without stepping into GM Permission territory, you are looking at something that really can't be built. About the closest you can get is to use ideasmith's idea of buying every Skill conceivable, with a Limitation that it only applies if the character has observed it's used for at least 1 Turn.

 

Another method is to buy 10 Overall Noncombat Skill Levels with Extra Time: 1 Turn. The idea here is that it is fundimentally impossible for anyone to learn a Skill of any kind worthy of spending points on it in that much time and use it effectively, and so any attempt to act in such as way in an Impossible Task, and Impossible Tasks have a -10 Modifier but can be attempted per the rules.

[ideasmith]

Re: How to build: instant learning

 

buying every Skill conceivable

 

You don't need every skill concievable. For example, in a 'medieval' fantasy setting, you probably don't need Electronics.

[Dust Raven]

Re: How to build: instant learning

 

You don't need every skill concievable. For example' date=' in a 'medieval' fantasy setting, you probably don't need Electronics.[/quote']

 

Well, Electroics isn't a conceivable skill in that setting now is it?

[SirViss]

Re: How to build: instant learning

 

And it probably would only apply to physical skills since:

 

...

QuickGrrl can watch anyone perform any Skill for a full Turn, and thereupon be able to do the Skill at the same level as the person she watched.

...

[ideasmith]

Re: How to build: instant learning

 

Well' date=' Electroics isn't a conceivable skill in that setting now is it? [/quote']

 

Not to the PC's. But you might well need skills not concievable to the PC's.

[Dust Raven]

Re: How to build: instant learning

 

Not to the PC's. But you might well need skills not concievable to the PC's.

 

I think we might be having a missunderstanding of how I'm using the word conceivable. In this regard, I'm using it to represent the conventions of the campaign setting, not the mindset of any particular character in it, PC or not. If there is no electronics to be done in the setting, ever, then there is no Electronics Skill, ever. But if the character lacks the ability to fly and has never considered the thought of it, but then observes some winged creature using Aerobatics (an aerial form of Acrobatics and Breakfall I use in my games), she can observe it and learn from it, and should she do so and latter gain the ability of flight, she should be able to use it (assuming it hasn't since been replaced by some other skill). It's not likely, but it is conceivable, so unlike Electronics, it should be on that list of Limited Skills.

[oryanfactor]

Re: How to build: instant learning

 

A thought occured to me where "instant skills" might be appropriate, even if in a VPP. In the film, "The Matrix", Neo asks Carrie Moss's character, "Do you know how to fly that thing??" (In reference to a helicopter). She replies "Not yet."

 

Immediately following this exchange, Moss gets a "download", which allows her to fly the 'copter.

 

oryan

[fwcain]

Re: How to build: instant learning

 

Transform (minor), Self to Self with New Skill... Add the appropriate Limits (Self Only; Must Observe Skill to be Acquired), and away you go!...

 

Franklin

[OddHat]

Re: How to build: instant learning

 

A thought occured to me where "instant skills" might be appropriate, even if in a VPP. In the film, "The Matrix", Neo asks Carrie Moss's character, "Do you know how to fly that thing??" (In reference to a helicopter). She replies "Not yet."

 

Immediately following this exchange, Moss gets a "download", which allows her to fly the 'copter.

 

oryan

 

Yes. That's one of the situations where use of the skill VPP is suggested.

[Hugh Neilson]

Re: How to build: instant learning

 

Transform (minor)' date=' Self to Self with New Skill... Add the appropriate Limits (Self Only; Must Observe Skill to be Acquired), and away you go!... [/quote']

 

I don't believe you can transform yourself.

 

Since we don't want something that explicitly requires GM permission (EVERYTHING implicitly requires GM permission), what about a VPP? No, no, not a SKILLS VPP. A Cosmic (+2) VPP which is restricted to Multiforms which replace a single skill (-1 1/2), only changes when the character watches someone with the skill for a full turn (-1/2) and only allows change for the specific skill observed (-1/2).

 

The good news? It's book legal. The bad news - for a 350 point character, it will cost 70 for the pool and 30 for the control cost, so that's 100 points, please!

 

I think I'd discuss a Skills Only VPP with my GM instead. If I were the GM, either I'd be willing to allow the power construct as a Skills VPP, or I wouldn't be willing to allow it, however constructed. Given the clear restrictions (ie you need to be able to observe someone performing the skill), what skills can you achieve? KS, PS, SS all seem out.

[Ndreare]

Re: How to build: instant learning

 

Here is a perfectly legal way to build a character with the power in question. All you would need is to state that each of your 1000 forms is the exact same as the base form but with a Single skill instead of multiform.

 

Perfectly legal in every way. But wow is it pricy.

 

38 A Man of Many Talents: Multiform (315 Character Points in the most expensive form) (x1,024 Number Of Forms) (113 Active Points); May only Select the form for the last Skill He Has Seen Used. (-2)

0

 

 

Option two is a lot more expensive but would not limit you to only 1024 forms

 

Here is a perfectly legal way to build a character with the power in question. All you would need is to state that each of your 1000 forms is the exact same as the base form but with a Single skill instead of multiform.

 

Perfectly legal in every way. But wow is it pricy.

 

87 Man of Many Talents: Variable Power Pool, 70 base + 17 control cost, (105 Active Points); all slots Limited Class Of Powers Available Very Limited (Multiform with the needed skill only; -1)

 

 

With this version you would have every skill in the universe.

[OddHat]

Re: How to build: instant learning

 

Another legal way to use a VPP for this: The Superskills VPP, possibly with a restriction on how effective the Superskill can be.

 

Build a small cosmic VPP, limit it with "Only to Duplicate Observed Skills". Observe someone using Acrobatics or Breakfall and for the character it becomes Flight with Position Shift and No Turn Mode, Must Land at End of Phase. Observe someone using Martial Arts and for the character it becomes a HA. You'll have to stretch to simulate all observable skills (Martial Throw, for example, will probably end up as a double KB HA or some such), but a lot can be done.

 

Like Hugh, as a GM, I'd rather do something like this in the simplest way if I allowed it at all.

 

Skills like KS:Everything There Is To Know and Every Science Known appear in official CU characters (the Examiner in GC for a start). The GM has a fair amount of freedom if he wants to see something in his campaign.

[Shike019]

Re: How to build: instant learning

 

I don't know if this has been thought of yet, but what about Cramming with Edetic Memory and enough extra points to buy skills on the spot?

 

I do think that the Skill VPP is the best way to go though.

[ghost-angel]

Re: How to build: instant learning

 

Transform (minor), Self to Self with New Skill... Add the appropriate Limits (Self Only; Must Observe Skill to be Acquired), and away you go!...

 

Franklin

"Self" cannot be a legal target of a Transform without GM Permission.

 

But a clever build I hadn't previously thought of.

[Hugh Neilson]

Re: How to build: instant learning

 

Option two is a lot more expensive but would not limit you to only 1024 forms

 

87 Man of Many Talents: Variable Power Pool, 70 base + 17 control cost, (105 Active Points); all slots Limited Class Of Powers Available Very Limited (Multiform with the needed skill only; -1)

 

 

With this version you would have every skill in the universe.

 

This version requires him to make a skill roll to change the Multiform in a combat situation (and one could certainly watch an acrobat in combat time). On the other hand, a VPP which can only take Multiform, only changes if you're observing a target using the skill for at least a turn and is only to acquire a specific skill seems more limited than a -1 indicates.

[Hugh Neilson]

Re: How to build: instant learning

 

A further thought - what skills can, in fact, be duplicated? It seems skills with a physical manifestation would be most appropriate, and that includes Martial Arts. I would be evry leery about allowing a character a VPP type structure to pick andf choose between varius martial arts maneuvers.

 

For Skills, it might be possible to simulate this with a Multipower, rather than a VPP, especially if the character is allowed to purchase additional slots on the fly with unspent xp. Given this would be restricted to occasions when he wants a specific skill AND can see someone else using it for at least a turn, I don't think this is terribly unbalancing. The usual concern about skills in frameworks making it too easy to pick up obscure skills as needed, then get the points back later, is mitigated by the ability of the GM to simply ensure no one with the desired skill is available for observation.

[ideasmith]

Re: How to build: instant learning

 

I don't know if this has been thought of yet' date=' but what about Cramming with Edetic Memory and enough extra points to buy skills on the spot?[/quote']

 

OddHat wanted to be able to use the skill at the same level as the person watched, without needing special GM permission. Cramming only provides Familiarity. Buying skills on the spot requires special GM permission.

[radioKAOS]

Re: How to build: instant learning

 

Here is a perfectly legal way to build a character with the power in question. All you would need is to state that each of your 1000 forms is the exact same as the base form but with a Single skill instead of multiform.

 

Perfectly legal in every way. But wow is it pricy.

 

38 A Man of Many Talents: Multiform (315 Character Points in the most expensive form) (x1,024 Number Of Forms) (113 Active Points); May only Select the form for the last Skill He Has Seen Used. (-2)

0

 

I really like this one actually. Really now, what game would you need 1024 different skills for? This should cover it all for you.

 

38pts is not pricey to have all of those skills at hand. Should probably be some limitations on it like extra time and such.... whoch would make it even cheaper...

[Ndreare]

Re: How to build: instant learning

 

This version requires him to make a skill roll to change the Multiform in a combat situation (and one could certainly watch an acrobat in combat time). On the other hand' date=' a VPP which can only take Multiform, only changes if you're observing a target using the skill for at least a turn and is only to acquire a specific skill seems more limited than a -1 indicates.[/quote']

He wanted 100% book legal so that is how I made it. When looking in the book -1 is the highest level a "Limited Class of Powers" goes. However when we get into GM fiat I would easly consider it a -2 limitation if not -3.

 

When it come to hand waving I am a big fan as normal HERO often has rules that do not seem to follow a logic I like.