Guyon Posted June 16, 2006 Report Share Posted June 16, 2006 Re: I am hot! I am not a big enough personality on this board to make any kind of difference. Actually I am smaller than small that will never be a rule expert. Hey but I just found my 1st edition rules while cleaning out my garage last week! :-) You know I was just bought up differently, I guess. I just saw a bunch of people dumping on a new player with not one person going to there defense. This was a really fun topic to read at first too, very creative ideas. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guyon Posted June 16, 2006 Report Share Posted June 16, 2006 Re: I am hot! I just suggest you re-read this, with the perspective of a new member. Member with the title "Hates You" taking stabs at you is a little intimidating. Especially for a new member. Why do this to a new player/member, I am just confused. She is not meaning she is hot, In the subject, she is talking about her character. Also she has not attempted anything here more than just being fun. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robyn Posted June 16, 2006 Report Share Posted June 16, 2006 Re: I am hot! I find it odd that not one person spoke up in defense of the new player. Defense implies attack. I don't think that way. I pointed out an alternative, a way of thinking where such things are quite simply irrelevant. Others may find it more natural to dive into a flamewar over the question, but I don't feel the need to ask. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andrew Cermak Posted June 16, 2006 Report Share Posted June 16, 2006 Re: I am hot! This is exactly the attitude that keeps females out of RPGs. Nah. If anything keeps females out of RPGs, it's insulting stereotypes of feminine behavior like the ones propagated in this thread. Yeah I guess I am making the song just turn the Men into drooling mindless drons. Sort of like when I go clubbing in a mini-skirt. LOL pretty grils get away with murder in these games LOL. I can't do expensive *POUT* WOW ghost-angel, that is impressive! You ( as everyone else) is far my superior. LOL Sorry guyz, I am too blonde to get that. Thanks for the advice, guys usially DO give more slack to pretty girls. LOL If you make it hot enough I can say a am "super anything chick" and guys love it. It's just how it works. LOL But this is all just "being fun," right? See, that's the other major thing keeping women out of this hobby: guys condoning and encouraging this kind of attention-mongering. Of course, that's *if* it's a girl. If it's not, it's some guy revealing his deep prejudices and other people defending him for it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guyon Posted June 16, 2006 Report Share Posted June 16, 2006 Re: I am hot! Totally unbelievable. I am out of this thread. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
prestidigitator Posted June 16, 2006 Report Share Posted June 16, 2006 Re: I am hot! I guess I'll re-post this, as it is more relevant here: [D]iscussions do often get heated' date=' and that is usually the source for disparaging remarks. I think it comes most often from simple spontanaity and frustration rather than outright meanness. We do a great deal of lighthearted teasing, too, so don't be too ready to take things as an insult. I'm sorry this unfortunate impression was one of your initial experiences here. The Hero Games Forums are a great place with a lot of cool and well intentioned people. Don't get discouraged yet! [/quote'] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robyn Posted June 16, 2006 Report Share Posted June 16, 2006 Re: I am hot! If anything keeps females out of RPGs' date=' it's insulting stereotypes of feminine behavior like the ones propagated in this thread.[/quote'] Any stereotype can be considered insulting, even to those who do conform to it. Stereotypes have a use; it's the consideration of someone by those stereotypes, after they have shown themselves to be different, that interferes with perception. Stereotypes are a conceptual shortcut, a way of generating a framework for interaction before really getting to know someone; without them, one faces the paradox of being unable to interact with someone well enough to get to know them, precisely because one doesn't yet know them. Stereotypes are only useful as a temporary substitute, though. See' date=' that's the other major thing keeping women out of this hobby: guys condoning and encouraging this kind of attention-mongering.[/quote'] If what you describe is different from when women condone it, why would that be? If some women are like that, don't you think they'd find it insulting to have their motivations reduced to "attention-getting"? Why separate the people you meet here by gender, when their gender is irrelevant to anything? Like most others, they are human, and those who react neither to gender nor the idea that someone on the boards might be "hot" in person will not be emotionally invested in it; when interacting with such people, Siren will be neither "trolling" nor "attention-getting", whether she intends to or not, for the simple reason that none of us will react any differently to her as a consequence. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Hopcroft Posted June 16, 2006 Report Share Posted June 16, 2006 Re: I am hot! I guess... Although, I do not have that problem on my professional fourm, or my chat site. I guess some people here just like to call names. "You Frederick you!" "How could you be such a damn Ataru?" "Why did you pull a Foxbat on us?" The system parts of this thread have been really interesting, though, so that much at least is appreciated. I have a similar problem on some anime mailing lists in that people assume I am younger than I am, which at one point resulted in my wondering whether I needed to turn myself in to the police. And not in the 4d6 Cosmetic transform Unemployed Writer to Polcie Officer either -- I actually wondered whether I had commited a felony in the course of a writing critique that got extremely ugly by allowing a minor to read somethat that minors aren't supposed to read. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andrew Cermak Posted June 16, 2006 Report Share Posted June 16, 2006 Re: I am hot! Any stereotype can be considered insulting' date=' even to those who [b']do[/b] conform to it. Stereotypes have a use; it's the consideration of someone by those stereotypes, after they have shown themselves to be different, that interferes with perception. Stereotypes are a conceptual shortcut, a way of generating a framework for interaction before really getting to know someone; without them, one faces the paradox of being unable to interact with someone well enough to get to know them, precisely because one doesn't yet know them. Stereotypes are only useful as a temporary substitute, though. I'm trying to read this as anything but tangential, and I'm failing. You're talking about the temporary value of stereotypes in our interactions with others balanced with the need to move past them. This situation is about a person assuming a stereotypical role to elicit a targeted reaction from an audience. If what you describe is different from when women condone it, why would that be? If some women are like that, don't you think they'd find it insulting to have their motivations reduced to "attention-getting"? Perhaps. Are you saying we can't condemn behaviors if doing so insults the perpetrator? Why separate the people you meet here by gender, when their gender is irrelevant to anything? Do you think Siren would agree that gender is irrelevant? From her statements, she seems to expect to be treated a certain way because of her professed gender, and to celebrate that treatment. Given those statements, am I really the one "separating people I meet here by gender?" Rather, Siren appears to have aggressively separated herself. Like most others, they are human, and those who react neither to gender nor the idea that someone on the boards might be "hot" in person will not be emotionally invested in it; when interacting with such people, Siren will be neither "trolling" nor "attention-getting", whether she intends to or not, for the simple reason that none of us will react any differently to her as a consequence. The problem with this lovely scenario is that it places the burden of responsibility entirely on those subjected to inappropriate behavior, rather than on the person behaving inappropriately. It's an unreasonable expectation, especially when that behavior goes beyond "trolling" and "attention-getting" into the realm of the offensive. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robyn Posted June 16, 2006 Report Share Posted June 16, 2006 Re: I am hot! Are you saying we can't condemn behaviors if doing so insults the perpetrator? Hardly. You seem to be focused on the "being offended" possibilities of only one group of people, however. It borders on discrimination to imply that behaviors which overlap with a stereotype can be offensive to the sensibilities of those who think behavior should challenge that stereotype, while not respecting the sensibilities of those whose natural behavior fits the stereotype. I'm leery of bringing sexual politics into this, since this isn't the NGD, but I will state this it is possible to be a "women don't need to conform to their stereotypes" feminist without being a "women must never permit themselves to fall within any stereotype" feminazi am I really the one "separating people I meet here by gender?" Your statements imply that many people have done so, which statistically renders your own actions, whatever they may, progressively less meaningful. My point, in any case, was not an attempt to contradict the essence of those statements, but merely their breadth; there is a separate subgroup of us here who may acknowledge Siren's claims to gender, but will not treat her differently than any other human due to that facet of her overall identity. The problem with this lovely scenario is that it places the burden of responsibility entirely on those subjected to inappropriate behavior' date=' rather than on the person behaving inappropriately.[/quote'] Simplicity itself for some of us. For yourself, I can only suggest that perhaps your definition of "appropriate" is not only subjective but unrealistic. It's an unreasonable expectation' date=' especially when that behavior goes beyond "trolling" and "attention-getting" into the realm of the offensive.[/quote'] The diversity in humanity virtually ensures that, somewhere, each person will find someone else whose very existence offends their sensibilities. Some humans have forsaken the internet and locked themselves into their own isolated little communities, where there are no roads and they can pretend the rest of the world doesn't exist. Most humans work themselves into a raging frenzy and then pummel the object of their frustration into oblivion (or instruct others to do so). Some actively work to reduce their intolerance so they can interact with reality freely. If the burden were on those exhibiting the behaviors, the measure of one's sensitivity would be the only limits on their power to force others to change. Much like the politically-correct climate today, which I have no tolerance for. One's inclination to suffer should not be the source of their right to enslave others. However, since the diversity of humanity does also ensure that conflicts will arise, tolerance should not be an unconditional responsibility for anyone. We hold expectations (of others) at our peril. I weigh the price of tolerance against its expected benefits, and use this information to make my decision regarding whether to subject myself to other people or avoid them. I expect others to do the same - at my own peril, of course. I wasn't emotionally invested in the "truth" of that expectation, though, so I'm not terribly upset when it isn't met Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CourtFool Posted June 16, 2006 Report Share Posted June 16, 2006 No, no, bunny. I still hate you back. I was told there were cookies and ice cream in this thread. What the copulation?! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheRavenIs Posted June 16, 2006 Report Share Posted June 16, 2006 Re: I am hot! People, stop the thread hijack. Siren came in to ask a question, we tried to help. I could care less if she isn't a she. I hope that she is, the reason why we don't have enough females playing hero. On that note I leave, this thread Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greywind Posted June 17, 2006 Report Share Posted June 17, 2006 Re: I am hot! Siren/Dawn is a she, as far as I'm concerned. Until RFK pops up and proves otherwise. Unless and until you have proof otherwise, what is the actual point in doubting? I had a nice long ftf today with an attractive blonde girl about the merits of GURPS Supers, Hero Unlimited and the HERO System. Hate to be a spoilsport, but they do exist out there. If they don't feel welcome here, they will leave and be forced to suffer through lesser systems. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
teh bunneh Posted June 17, 2006 Report Share Posted June 17, 2006 Re: I am hot! Well, since my name somehow got dragged into this... Hello Siren, and welcome to the Hero boards. We're generally a good bunch, but (as other people have said) sometimes we like to play rough. Nonetheless, and despite the more-or-less constant bickering, we're all friends united by our enjoyment of the Hero system. As you've already learned, people here are always happy to give system advice -- often more advice than anyone could reasonably expect! Allow me to introduce myself. I'm Bill, but I'm known more frequently around here (for reasons best left undisclosed) as The Bunny. I'm arrogant as hell, I have a rough and unsubtle sense of humor, I often post without thinking, and I take far more than I give to these boards. And those are my good points! (I also frequently make posts about how I'm going to slap people around like beeyotches, or conquer the world, or how I hate everyone -- but that's just my way of foolin' around. I find the idea of a widdle adorable bunny rabbit with a mad-on to rule the universe to be insanely funny. Heck, I've watched the Easter Bunny Hates You video twenty or thirty times, and it still cracks me up every time. Like I said, a rough and unsubtle sense of humor). So if anything I said, or failed to say, or implied, or failed to imply, has upset, degraded, or offended you or yours in any way, sense, or form, then I apologize. I'm really, really sorry, and I apologize unreservedly. I offer a complete and utter retraction. The statement was totally without basis in fact, and was in no way fair comment, and was motivated purely by malice, and I deeply regret any distress that my comments may have caused you, or your family. I hereby undertake not to repeat any such slander at any time in the future. Cross my heart. Bill. (And now, let the killing time commence!) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
prestidigitator Posted June 17, 2006 Report Share Posted June 17, 2006 Re: No, no, bunny. I still hate you back. I was told there were cookies and ice cream in this thread. What the copulation?! Bad llama! Who let your rep get into the green?! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rapier Posted June 17, 2006 Report Share Posted June 17, 2006 Re: No, no, bunny. I still hate you back. Bad llama! Who let your rep get into the green?! Flash » The Llama Song I HAD to do it!! I LOVE the llama song!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
prestidigitator Posted June 17, 2006 Report Share Posted June 17, 2006 Re: No, no, bunny. I still hate you back. Flash » The Llama Song I HAD to do it!! I LOVE the llama song!!! HA! Great reference. (Rep) (Just no one go anywhere near that bloody badger animation. I hate that thing!) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AmadanNaBriona Posted June 17, 2006 Report Share Posted June 17, 2006 Re: I am hot! I'm suprised no one has chimed in with the old "Take a pic of yourself with a HERO book" litmus test... Oh, right... Not the NGD. *scribbles note to self* Anyway... Hi Siren. Ditto what The Bunny said... Hello Siren' date=' and welcome to the Hero boards. We're generally a good bunch, but (as other people have said) sometimes we like to play rough. Nonetheless, and despite the more-or-less constant bickering, we're all friends united by our enjoyment of the Hero system. As you've already learned, people here are always happy to give system advice -- often more advice than anyone could reasonably expect![/quote'] Anyway, I'm Amadan, or the Fool, not to be mistaken for CourtFool, who is a llama.I'm one of those die hard old school Hero geeks. I'm also a bit of an expert on celtic history and myth. I make leather clothes for a living. I have a hot girlfriend. Several folk on the boards are even convinced she exists. Mutant for Hire even met her when we were broken up. She also has a profile on here, tho its long been dormant. Thus she ALMOST exisits. We have a girlfriend too, but as far as the board knows, she doesn't exist at all This however 'splains why I've been almost absent the last month or so. Everyone else seems to have done a fine job of answering your questions, so I shant bother, as nothing novel came to mind. If you are in fact a hot girl who loves costumes, by all means post some of your costume pics. Some of us are dedicated costume maniacs and you'll roll in reputation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zeropoint Posted June 17, 2006 Report Share Posted June 17, 2006 Re: I am hot! some day you will run into someone from these boards who will meet you in person and verify your existence I'll volunteer for hot-gamer-chick-meeting duty. After all, SOMEone has to make a sacrifice for the good of the board, right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KA. Posted June 17, 2006 Report Share Posted June 17, 2006 Re: I am hot! I'll volunteer for hot-gamer-chick-meeting duty. After all, SOMEone has to make a sacrifice for the good of the board, right? I applaud your selfless efforts to help the board! KA. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thia Halmades Posted June 17, 2006 Report Share Posted June 17, 2006 Re: I am hot! *stares blankly* RIGHT THEN. Now that you've all thoroughly embarrassed yourselves, and possibly driven away someone who may have been completely innocent, I hope you're proud. Seriously. I love saying this: "I agree with Robyn." I PM/email Robyn on a regular basis; I only know his gender through a post from McCoy, but I know nothing else about him. Don't care, much, either. He makes for a good 'net friend, and that's enough for me. So what if she says 'huggles' and what have you? Who cares? Let her be her, and don't go shooing her away because she MIGHT not be a hot gaming chick. GAD. Innocent until proven guilty, not vice versa. But. By way of introductions. Hi Siren. I am the Lord Captain Thia Halmades. I'm not friends with any of these yokels (except the bunny, Dr. A., Ghost-Angel, Ghost Archer, TheRavenIs, Lord Mhoram, Lysando, Robyn, Crosshair Collie, Zeropoint, The Fool, Courtfool... okay, I recant - I'm friends with all these cats) but for the most part they're a fair bunch. I'm from Philly originally, always nice to catch someone from PA on the board. I came over to HERO from the d20 system and I've been here for ... I dunno, six or seven months now (feels like years at times). If you look in the online store you'll see items which are marked "I am a hot lesbian couple." I asked what the dillyo is with the shizzle, and got directed to the same thread noted above. So the whole cute girl/hugz routine is setting off alarm bells with the cynics. Me? I wasn't here, I could care less who you are, I'm here to help. As Fighter says, "I'm a helper!" So as questions & comments go, I'd be happy to assist as best I can. The people who've given you answers so far have all been spot on. I just don't like that people have one bad experience and then label the new person with the burden of said bad experience. So please, again, don't take it personally. They're all good folks. You don't strike me (in the span of 20 some posts) as the sowing unnecessary chaos for no good reason type - your questions are clear & direct, and you're making friends. I'm down with that. Just bear in mind that people are carrying a grudge, and it occassionally rears its ugly head. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ghost-angel Posted June 17, 2006 Report Share Posted June 17, 2006 Re: I am hot! it's like a Hero 12-Step Meeting.... *stands up* Hi, I'm ghost-angel, and I'm a bastard. no wait.. that came out wrong.... lemme start over. Hi. I'm ghost-angel, and I'm a bastard. DO'H!! oh nevermind. Seriously, we're a pretty cool bunch, but like everyone we're all looking at the world through out experiences and our perceptions. So if someone doubts that you are indeed you I certainly won't think any less of you for it. So far you've taken things in stride, so I think you're pretty cool. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
teh bunneh Posted June 17, 2006 Report Share Posted June 17, 2006 Re: I am hot! I'll volunteer for hot-gamer-chick-meeting duty. After all, SOMEone has to make a sacrifice for the good of the board, right? That implies that we believe you're real. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
teh bunneh Posted June 17, 2006 Report Share Posted June 17, 2006 Re: I am hot! it's like a Hero 12-Step Meeting.... *stands up* Hi, I'm ghost-angel, and I'm a bastard. no wait.. that came out wrong.... lemme start over. No, no. It sounded right to me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KA. Posted June 17, 2006 Report Share Posted June 17, 2006 Re: I am hot! Lumping all people into a mold just because you had a bad experience with one is simply discrimination. Candy coat it all you want “healthy does of skeptisismâ€, it is the same thing. Though if you scare off a potentially good (definitly fun) player then I hope you are happy with a board full of PhilFleischmann, CBikle, and keyes_bill. I find it odd that not one person spoke up in defense of the new player. Guyon, You said in a later post that you are no longer following this thread, but just in case you check back in someday, I wanted to respond to this post. Discrimination is a rather charged word to use, especially these days. May I ask you some questions? Do you lock your doors at night? Do you lock your car? Because if you do, then you are guilty of 'discrimination'. Just because you have heard that some people might have harmed others, or stolen from them, you assume that they might harm you, or steal from you. You are pre-judging everyone who might happen by your home or your car, by keeping them out with a lock. Or, is the fact of the matter, that since you are aware of the fact that some people might actually harm you or steal from you, you choose to be somewhat careful about who you choose to allow into your personal space? Most of us only take precautions against threats that we are aware of. Before the Kara/Rachel incident, I was aware of online crime, in the sense of fraud, identity theft, etc. But I was not aware that someone would actually be insane enough to come into an online community and spend years building a set of online personas, enlist allies to their cause by a campaign of flattery and flirting, and then create conflicts designed to set those allies against other board members, merely to stir up conflict for their own amusement. Now that I am aware that such a being exists, I am on guard against a repeat performance, either from them, or someone with a similar intent. That does not mean that I have any sort of 'grudge' against new members. Or that I automatically assume that they are some sort of psychotic troll. But I must say that I will always have a bit of skepticism when someone suddenly shows up saying: "I am a super-hot flirtatious gamer chick. *wink* *hugz*" Not being a super-hot flirtatious gamer chick myself, I don't claim to understand their feelings or motivations. But I would say that if I just started posting on a new board that was nearly torn to pieces by someone pretending to be a chubby balding 40-ish gamer guy, I would not take offense if they took their time getting to know me before trusting me. And, one more time, the reason that this board has a touch of paranoia is due to the Kara/Rachel incident. I would not like to think how bad things would be for new members if we allowed another one to occur. Which means that some of us who seem so guarded, may be trying to keep this a place where new people can be welcomed, with some slight reservation. And those who are too ready to take everything at face value, could be unknowingly helping to create a situation that will make things really unpleasant around here. KA. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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