Hero Sys, GURPS, and Star Hero books.

[projecktzero]

After LOTR, NWN, DND3E, and AOM, somthing snapped and I reached Mideval Fantasy Burnout. I decided I'd like to run a Space RPG. I thought GURPS was the answer, so I picked up several GURPS books. Later I noticed Star Hero on the shelves of a comic book store. GURPS seems like a good system, but there are a ton 'o rules. GURPS Vehicles made my head explode.

 

I used to play the original Champions long long ago, and I had a lot of fun. I also remember the 1st Fantasy Hero, but we never really got into it.

 

Anyway, I'm wondering how the Hero System compares to GURPS. Do you find it easier? Harder? Just different?

 

Also, how much has the Hero System changed since the original Champions? How much of it is still the same?

 

For someone who's thinking of running a Star Hero game, which books would you recommend? FRED, Star Hero, and ???

[Monolith]

I used to play GURPS Traveller before Star Hero was introduced. I like GURPS but I think it sometimes gets bogged down and becomes too techie. I am very please with my current Terran Empire campaign.

 

As far as the difference between 5th and earlier editions, it really depends on what edition you are talking about. 5th and 4th edition are 85% compatable. The ratio is much worse for 3rd and 1st & 2nd edition. If you were playing 4th edition though you should have no problem catching on to 5th.

 

You will need FREd. Star Hero is probably the best genre book published to date, and if you are really serious about playing a scifi game you cannot pass that up. I am playing in an Terran Empire campaign right now. I really enjoy that world. It is very Travelleresque but also has a Star Wars, B5, and Farscape feel to it too. It is a very fun campaign world. If you are not wanting to take the effort of creating everything from scratch I would pick that up. There will also be a Spacer's Toolkit coming sometime at the end of this month. It is full of gadgets, weapons, vehicles, and spaceships. It is a real plus to cut down on your workload.

 

I hope that helps some. You can read about my game in the Star Hero forum under "Tales of the Fearless Coward." I also have our ship's writeup there. It might give you some basic idea of what TE is like at any event.

[Snarf]

Star Hero is better if you want to create your own campaign. You can more easily make your own powers and equipment and see a point value for them.

 

Don't even get me started on GURPS vehicles; I found it almost totally unusable. This is another area where Hero System is less realistic but vastly simpler and faster for GMs.

 

GURPS has a lot of good premade material, like a premade tech level system and system of psionic powers. It's good if you want to just pick up someone elses stuff and use it then it's great.

 

Combat in Hero System seems to be more complex, which can be good or bad depending on whether you like that.

[Citizen Keen]

Two other books...

 

The Ultimate Vehicle - it helps build spaceships. A lot. It is similar to GURPS Vehicles in all the good ways, but doesn't have any of the bad aspects. Highly recommended.

 

The Ultimate Martial Artist (UMA) - Moderately recommended. It helps almost any campaign. If you want to add light sabers or crazy alien ninjas, this is what you want. Only get it for a Star HERO campaign if melee is going to be really important, or you got money to burn.

 

-cK

[Dino]

Re: Hero Sys, GURPS, and Star Hero books.

 

Originally posted by projecktzero

For someone who's thinking of running a Star Hero game, which books would you recommend? FRED, Star Hero, and ???

 

GURPS Space. Now as in the past, Hero system is great for rules and ideas, but has virtually no usable source material. GURPS remains as un playable as ever, while continuing to crank out the world's best sourcebooks.

[xanatos]

You can't compare the TUV with the GURPS Vehicles! They are totally different! GURPS Vehicles gives you nearly-realistic results (if you can call a FTL starship realistic) (and so you discover that to build the Enterprise you have to be very very very very very rich and have a very very very high technology, and that the weapons of the 21st century will be very expensive (when you begin using very expensive frames and armors your pricetag skyrockets)). TUV is more like a shopping mall... I want an FTL drive, very much armor, a big laser... And I want to mount everything on my citycar. Do you pay with credit card? No, with character points! :-)

With GURPS Vehicles you can't build a TL7/8 (our Technology Level) Fighter that has the armor of a tank, the firepower of a Fighter and the speed of a missile. GURPS Vehicles even destroys the "magic" of UFOs. Without (very improbable) iper-strong materials, UFOs are quite easy to shot down (it's quite easyer to punch more damage than to defend against more damage) GURPS tries to be on the realistic side, HERO is on the heroic/superheroic side.

GURPS Vehicles is GURPS, TUV is Hero (and we don't have to say anything else).

 

Bye

Max

[xanatos]

I don't have my G:Traveller here, but wasn't included in that book simplified rules for building starships? ("tile"-based rules, if I remember well)

You should compare Star Hero with G:Space (and I'm not very sure which one is the best, while Star Hero is probably the best supplement for Hero, G:Space 3rd ed. is probably one of the best supplements for GURPS)

[Snarf]

GURPS Vehicles is GURPS, TUV is Hero (and we don't have to say anything else).

For me, the biggest difference isn't the realism, it's the amount of work required and complexity for GURPS vehicles. You have to have a lot of patience and absolutely love math to deal with it...

 

Aaanyway, GURPS psionics is much better than the small psionics section in Star Hero. If you want pre-made psionics system and are willing to spend $15 more, then GURPS is good. If you want to make your own psionics system then Hero is good.

[NuSoardGraphite]

Originally posted by Snarf

[b

 

Aaanyway, GURPS psionics is much better than the small psionics section in Star Hero. If you want a excellent, complete, pre-made psionics system and are willing to spend $15 more, then GURPS is good. If you want to make your own psionics system then Hero is good. [/b]

 

Well...thats because Hero's "Psionics System" is a prevalent part of the basic Hero game system. It doesn't need a seperate Psionics book (though, I'm sure it will be getting one when The Ultimate Mentalist is released) to compete withGURPS Psionics...IMO it beats GURPS Psionics hands down!

 

But ultimately, it is unfair to compare the two as Hero has a big focus on custom designed powers etc.

[Snarf]

GURPS doesn't need a seperate psionics book, most of the those rules and powers appear in the basic book. It's just a supplement and campaign advice. What I meant to say is that it can save you some time. Even with the new powers and advice in Star Hero, you may still have to prepare a lot of new material.

 

This Ultimate Mentalist book sounds interesting. What's it like and is some version of it out now?

 

I probably would like it more than GURPS Psionics. So far, I've been satisfied with every GURPS book I've seen and amazed by every Hero book.

[JmOz]

The Original Ultimate mentalist (TUM) was written for 4th edition by are very own Steve Long. I am not sure if it ever saw ink, but it should still be available as a download in the online store

 

Off topic, the other Ultimate E-Book was the Ultimate Super Mage, by the individual writting a lot of the magic stuff coming out next year (YIPPY)

[Steve Long]

The Ultimate Mentalist was published in hardcopy form, and sold well. After it went out of print, it was eventually converted into an e-book. We'll redo it eventually; I just haven't had the time yet.

 

Several people have recommended The Ultimate Vehicle, and I certainly can't disagree. However, I should point out that if your main interest is starships, the starship creation rules in TUV are about 80% identical to the ones in Star Hero, so you probably don't need both books unless you really, really like doing lots of starships.

[AlHazred]

C'mon, Steve! You have to sell product!

 

[salesman] "See here, my good man. Really, everything is necessary to run a good Hero campaign! In fact, I recommend you buy two, so that you can leave one in the shrink-wrap as a collectible!" [/salesman]

 

Seriously, though, Hero is one of the few games where I can truthfully say I use everything I buy. I have yet to buy a Hero supplement that didn't give me a ready-made NPC or Vehicle, series of plot seeds, interesting Advantage/Limitation set, or whatever. They really are all useful for almost every campaign I run/play...

[Monolith]

Originally posted by Snarf

GURPS doesn't need a seperate psionics book, most of the those rules and powers appear in the basic book. It's just a supplement and campaign advice. What I meant to say is that it can save you some time. Even with the new powers and advice in Star Hero, you may still have to prepare a lot of new material.

Just FYI, there are some 45 psionics powers examples, which were cut from Terran Empire, in Digital Hero #8. These can be used in conjunction with the 45 psionic power examples which were given in Star Hero. I also think that once a player sees the examples in Star Hero it is a very simple thing for him to create new psionic powers with FREd; and that is the point of FREd.

[Tom McCarthy]

If you go ahead with a Hero SF campaign, I'd recommend:

 

5th edition rulebook

Star Hero

Possibly Terran Empire

Probably the forthcoming Spacer's Toolkit

 

As Steve says, The Ultimate Vehicle is very similar to Star Hero for spaceships (though it has an edge in its mecha rules).

[NuSoardGraphite]

I really do recommend The Ultimate Vehicle as in a long and involved Sci/fi or Space Opera campaign is going to have more vehicles than just starships. A lot more.

 

You have to design the characters personal hovercraft, the the Hovertanks that the evil overlord's forces use to suppress rioting, and the Mecha that the Marines use to battle alien invaders...

 

The Ultimate Vehicle also happens to have a lot of premade vehicular equipment that you can just drop into any vehicle design and will make things a bit faster for you. Also the additional vehicular action rules and hit location charts are a must.

[Ndreare]

I personally would recommend you get the Star HERO book and The HERO System 5th edition. The rest is nice but hardly necessary as all the rules you need for a game are included in the main rule book. However if you are financially stable then I would recommend Terren empire and The Ultimate Vehicle Guide possibly even the HERO System Bestiary as even it have some pre generated robots doomsday machines and alian monsters. In total I would say I have yet to buy a HERO product that I thought was bad or I lost money on.

 

As for G.U.R.P.S. it is in my opinion very good at doing gritty genres like Starship Troopers and Horror like Cathulu however if you want a cinematic feel to your game like Star Treck or Star wars then nothing does it like HERO.

 

From my past experiences with games (and have played dozens) the only thing HERO does not do really well is the Dark and Gritty. That is not to say that HERO cannot do it just that it is not done really well.

 

P.S.: If for some reason you want Gritty in HERO where players are as likely to die as thugs then all you need to do is limit the max resistant DEF and have bad guys use killing attacks.

[projecktzero]

Originally posted by Monolith

I used to play GURPS Traveller before Star Hero was introduced. I like GURPS but I think it sometimes gets bogged down and becomes too techie. I am very please with my current Terran Empire campaign.

 

 

I'd agree with the "techie" part. I'm also concerned with the lethality of GURPS. Since it strives for realism, I think it'd be easy for a character to die. From what I remember of the Hero System, it was a lot harder to die. Granted that was 1st ed Champions, but even normals could hang in there. They'd be in a coma, but they wouldn't die like flies getting swatted.

 

You will need FREd. Star Hero is probably the best genre book published to date

 

I'm looking forward to picking it up. I really like GURPS Space. It does get you brain storming.

 

I hope that helps some. You can read about my game in the Star Hero forum under "Tales of the Fearless Coward." I also have our ship's writeup there. It might give you some basic idea of what TE is like at any event.

 

Thanks. I'll wander over to the Star Hero forum and check it out.

[projecktzero]

Originally posted by Ndreare

I personally would recommend you get the Star HERO book and The HERO System 5th edition. The rest is nice but hardly necessary as all the rules you need for a game are included in the main rule book. However if you are financially stable then I would recommend Terren empire and The Ultimate Vehicle Guide possibly even the HERO System Bestiary as even it have some pre generated robots doomsday machines and alian monsters. In total I would say I have yet to buy a HERO product that I thought was bad or I lost money on.

 

I'll definately get FRED and Star Hero. After I digest that, I'll see about TUV.

 

As for G.U.R.P.S. it is in my opinion very good at doing gritty genres like Starship Troopers and Horror like Cathulu however if you want a cinematic feel to your game like Star Treck or Star wars then nothing does it like HERO.

 

From my past experiences with games (and have played dozens) the only thing HERO does not do really well is the Dark and Gritty. That is not to say that HERO cannot do it just that it is not done really well.

 

No Cyberpunk HERO? I would think that much of that depends on the GM, but I see your point.

 

Thanks for the help.

[Ndreare]

Actualy I have been rereading my copy of Cyber Hero as I will soon be GMing a Black Operations game (starting sunday). But no for your apparent needs I do not think a ten year old book on Cyber Tech will be very usefull as most players will be more interested flying space ships than siting at a computer. (But there is some decent looking hard ware in there for a 1/2 ciborg type character.)

[NuSoardGraphite]

Originally posted by projecktzero

I'd agree with the "techie" part. I'm also concerned with the lethality of GURPS. Since it strives for realism, I think it'd be easy for a character to die. From what I remember of the Hero System, it was a lot harder to die. Granted that was 1st ed Champions, but even normals could hang in there. They'd be in a coma, but they wouldn't die like flies getting swatted.

.

 

Thats Supers style combat where characters mostly use Normal Damage attacks and the defenses tend to be a bit high.

 

If you are playing a "Heroic" level game and using a lot of killing attacks (as will occur in a Star Hero game) then the Lethality of Hero is actualy higher than in GURPS. GURPS characters actualy can take quite a bit of damage before they die, just not very much before they are "hurt" (taking someone to negative health makes them badly hurt, but to kill them, you have to take them to -50 HT or something like that If I remember correctly)

In Hero, the lethality increases dramatically if you use a combination of the Hit Location rules with the Impairing and Disabling optional damage rules. Where taking a Disabling wound to the Head, Chest or Vitals location is likely to kill a character outright, depending on the nature of the attack (a plasma blast or Sword stroke to the Head location that does a Disabling wound should kill just about anyone).

 

With those optional rules in place, Dark and Gritty is no problem whatsoever in Hero, in fact staying alive becomes a challenge...