AnotherSkip Posted June 21, 2003 Report Share Posted June 21, 2003 Inspired by the Article: Designer Desmenes by Mark A. Hart appearing in Dragon magazine #259 this post/thread seeks just what sort of things we would do in order to take the Hero System and Modify it to build not bases(too small) or planets (might be too large), but nations with advantages and disadvantages, something along the lines of "The Ultimate Nation" (TUN?). If you dont have the article the posts won't do you much good ( or more appropriately shouldn't) for building kingdoms with the Skills and Powers Book. That was the purpose of the article mentioned above. this has a different concept of taking the HERO system and making it work for Nations. Okies so here goes: Determining National Values: though every nation/kingdom is very different. The Hero System assumes that each character begins with "x" amount of base points depending upon which level of beggining power level the Gm wants. SO the first step would be to choose how powerful at the three choice points the Gm wants the nations to be. Just like with Hero's a high base point (say 75 or more) means that each individual nation can be relatively powerful without taking disadvantages. a high capacity for disadvantages (like 50 points per category or 75 or more points availible in disadvantages) One of the things I'm considering doing is because I'm not intending these to be bought by a person. I might in effect megascale the countries size and making the Megascaling free for the smallest size of country. After all to be a country you at a minimum have to be what a City (Vatican City, though no wuss is the smallest Country I can think of) ? Well, landed at least, there are other possibilites in Sci fi. To link up the countries with Character Types Guidelines I'll think ill use the Standard, Skilled and Competant normals with Standard hero Classification being at the upper range. This will give people the opportunity to work with something from Satellite countries and 3rd (even fourth) world countries to an impressive 1st world nation. At this point going through FRED Im going to ignore Everyman Skills for an actual nation, these might be appropriate for each World Subset, but at this point im going to look father before I decide on default. Skills: now then Skills have interesting intersections looking at bases , buying a nationwide skill to in essence get a complimentary roll to everyone in the nations borders could have an interesting correlation. Another would be this is where Everyman Skills come from. The real question is Is The Nation a really big base(Lataveria, Wakandia, malachites country, Citystates, Empires, Sci Fi Corporations like Ares, ), or is the Nation in question an independant entity (USA, PGC[Pan Galactic Corporation], Rome, T$R legal staff etc...) part of the answer is whether or not the Country will be stable in mostly the same condition as it was left after the current ruler leaves. As a subset of Skills, Skill enhancers could be argued for as well, if the nations policies encourage a strong pursuit of interest (Such as Science and Japan, Linguistics in Europe, Traveller in a country that encourages globetrotting and international interests. Perks : this is where i have really formed ideas: Access repersents a governments ability to have info-sharing (typically through spy techniques) it can repersent a level of data gathering on the allies of the nation in question as well as those considered enemies, Anonyminity: though not typically found in modern real world campaigns (after all how easy is it to hide from the current level of spy networks?) this might be applicable to many Sci-Fi, and possibly some fantasy nations. For example a mysterious fantasy nation suddenly appears out of the mists of time, Latervia being overlooked by the nearby Soviet Union via super sorcery and other cases, or France being under appreciated as the evil global power it is. Contacts: Unlike Access this perk has to deal with either friendly data sharing or under the table informal deals. Computer "file sharing", whether willed or no is probably better handled through Computer link. On the converse side since often a nation develops such communication at multible levels when a form of contact does form then the nation does not need to buy the "upgrade" for Organization Contacts since this is an Organization to Organization contact. The obvious exception is Favor. typiaclly finding the contact is not difficult either, but the roll should be used for getting the contact to do what you want them to do. Followers though on some scales this could be used to repersent millitaries, gov't officals and other such things probably it is best not simulate the buying of millitaries by using followers as is. In almost any era a millitary consists of 100's of men and most likely 1,000's to 100,000 or more, a significant expenditure if the standard follower rules were used!!!! Perhaps the best way would be to establish a base size for the minimum level of competant fielding of troops (based upon numbers) after building the desired level of competancy (via character points/5 in the standard manner) then essentially "megascaling" to repersent sufficient troop levels. if a Gm uses the FH Mass Combat rules to determine what the typical size of units that are to be fielded in the reigions then use that as the base size (or perhaps a size down or some fraction therof) The Gm may choose to not allow the typical doubling for 5 ponts either as this may repersent a potentially unbalancing way for a country to quickly overrun it's neighbors and then use the resources it just accquired to counteract its disadvantages. Fringe benefits don't really seem to apply at this level though possibly a country could be particularly resourceful at getting treaties signed and thus accquire the equivalent to the Right to Marry something along the lines of Prefered Treaty Signator. Historical similarities would be the role of Catherine the Great in the relationship of Europe in her time. Money certainly does not work like listed in the main book, if so then most countries would have to pay 10 to 15 points right off! Rather the better solution is viewing money as a relatavistic value then most countries would have Money as a 0 point value for the nation, they are neither in debt nor are they flush with value either. There are several ecnomic values that the money advantage or disadvantage can repersent. It could repersent the purchasing power of its people, the actual international investments of the Government or even the result of whether or not a nation sucessfully balances its budget. Though typically this would for simplicity's sake repersent the end economic results of the nations interests. Reputations: For good or evil most nations have one form or another of reputation. Like many other advantages and disadvantages in this area the scale has to change with the scale of the area. also some of this may be redundant with the redefinition of the character scale. I'll add more later. PS I would suggest Steve make a book Called Questions, Riddles and Secrets for publication as part of the Hero System in the fantasy section then we could have QRS to go right before TUV Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Long Posted June 21, 2003 Report Share Posted June 21, 2003 I don't have the article, sadly, but I am hoping to find a copy someday. I'd like to have some sort of "design a nation/kingdom/planet" rules in The Ultimate Base, and it's always worthwhile to see other approaches to the subject before beginning work. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nolgroth Posted June 22, 2003 Report Share Posted June 22, 2003 I've often thought that a Birthright-style campaign would be a fun idea. Basically, from what I understand, each Lord/King/High Mucky Muck is bound to his nation through some magical process. One would think that the kingdom would reflect aspects of the King and maybe vice versa. I think I would start with smaller provinces and build up. Even without a magical gee gaw in the equation, a leader has a lot of influence on the atmosphere of the thing he leads. For HERO, just about any character can be assigned enough points to create a "base" that encompasses a county or barony sized piece of land. The Ultimate Base would be really cool if it could give guidelines on how to create a nation-sized base. Government, basic economics, population (Followers?) and natural resources are some ideas to start with. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AnotherSkip Posted June 22, 2003 Author Report Share Posted June 22, 2003 Sigh Adds another item to the Steve Long's B-day/Christmas list..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BobGreenwade Posted June 22, 2003 Report Share Posted June 22, 2003 Originally posted by Steve Long I don't have the article, sadly, but I am hoping to find a copy someday. I'd like to have some sort of "design a nation/kingdom/planet" rules in The Ultimate Base, and it's always worthwhile to see other approaches to the subject before beginning work. Hmmm... I had the beginnings of such a rules subsystem in a couple of Haymaker articles, at least one of which made it (I think) into EZ Hero: Fleet of a Thousand Points and The Planet Project. If either or both of these aren't currently available to you, Steve, I'd be happy to send you whatever I can find (assuming you do decide to write the book yourself rather than freelance it out)... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tkdguy Posted June 22, 2003 Report Share Posted June 22, 2003 There are quite a few sites about building worlds if that's what you want. I like to use astrophysics and geology to create worlds. It would make more sense physically than a lot of the game worlds out there. However, it is time consuming, and it turns your brain to mush if you work on it too long in a given period of time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hierax Posted June 22, 2003 Report Share Posted June 22, 2003 Roleplaying Kingdoms and Worlds - Aria Actually, in the early/mid '90s, there was a roleplaying game called ARIA (subtitled "Canticle of the Monomyth") which dealt with creating kingdoms as characters in a sizeable expansion called "Worlds". Steve, FWIW, you should be able to use your connections with "Last Unicorn Games" to get a copy to mine for ideas... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hierax Posted June 22, 2003 Report Share Posted June 22, 2003 Divine Hero - The Primal Order Something else of a grand scale that I'd like to see HERO tackle would be a Diving Hero something like what the old WotC tried with The Primal Order and its supplments. If not a full book, some form of Digital Hero article would be great -- yeah, like Steve doesn't already have enough to do, eh? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AnotherSkip Posted June 23, 2003 Author Report Share Posted June 23, 2003 Originally posted by Steve Long I don't have the article, sadly, but I am hoping to find a copy someday. I'd like to have some sort of "design a nation/kingdom/planet" rules in The Ultimate Base, and it's always worthwhile to see other approaches to the subject before beginning work. Good you can look at my approach Also as a side note and a reminder this will actually be a series of updates to the first page rather than multible posts. And Steve would you be interested in something along the range of a DH article rather than "free spamming"? After all I have to get DH publishing credits somehow....... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Long Posted June 23, 2003 Report Share Posted June 23, 2003 DH proposals are evaluated by Dave Mattingly -- you can send 'em to him at digitalhero@herogames.com. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lensman Posted June 23, 2003 Report Share Posted June 23, 2003 Re: Build your own fantasy Kingdoms Originally posted by AnotherSkip Inspired by the Article: Designer Desmenes by Mark A. Hart appearing in Dragon magazine #259 this post/thread seeks just what sort of things we would do in order to take the Hero System and Modify it to build not bases(too small) or planets (might be too large), but nations with advantages and disadvantages, something along the lines of "The Ultimate Nation" (TUN?). Great Idea. What nobody posted a try?! Am inspired will whip something up on Monday and post for critique Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Obvious Posted June 23, 2003 Report Share Posted June 23, 2003 How long ago did Dragon #259 come out? My FLGS has a sizable stack of back issues, but it would be nice to narrow the search.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Killer Shrike Posted June 23, 2003 Report Share Posted June 23, 2003 Originally posted by Captain Obvious How long ago did Dragon #259 come out? My FLGS has a sizable stack of back issues, but it would be nice to narrow the search.... A "Long Time Ago" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Markdoc Posted June 24, 2003 Report Share Posted June 24, 2003 >>>A "Long Time Ago"<<< In a gaming system far, far away.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AnotherSkip Posted June 24, 2003 Author Report Share Posted June 24, 2003 Originally posted by Markdoc >>>A "Long Time Ago"<<< In a gaming system far, far away.... yeah especially since it covers the Skills and Powers for second edition and practically worshippes it as th greatest thing since sliced bread. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Obvious Posted June 28, 2003 Report Share Posted June 28, 2003 Well, my FLGS doesn't have Dragon #259. They've got 5 or 6 copies of some issues though. Makes me wonder what's wrong with them.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AnotherSkip Posted July 3, 2003 Author Report Share Posted July 3, 2003 The FLGS or the issues they have 5-6 copies of? Probably because the issues are of Dragon magazine? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Obvious Posted July 3, 2003 Report Share Posted July 3, 2003 Well, obviously, they have the fact that they're Dragons going against them. There aren't any Adventurer's Clubs lying around the store.... I was wondering what made these particular issues of Dragon so unappealing relative to other issues.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AnotherSkip Posted July 4, 2003 Author Report Share Posted July 4, 2003 Actually i suspect that lack of popularity is due to a lack of quality in the issues Submissions category. Dragon is pretty hit or miss. 259 is a particular gem though, in addition to the Designer Desmenes it has Villianous motivations and 200+ non-monster encounters in random encounter charts. Veddy Vedddy Crunchy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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