How far can a telekinetic throw himself?

[Day6000]

So we have a Telekinetic right. This Telekinetic has a bum leg so he can only move 3 inches at the most. If he had telekinesis of 40, shouldn't he be able to pick himself up and move himself around x-men style? How far do you think he should be able to move? A guy i know said he should only be able to move like 7 inches. I dno if he really thought that or he was just being a deuche but i'd like your opinion. Thanks

[Supreme Serpent]

Re: How far can a telekinetic throw himself?

 

In HERO, I'd say zero inches. If the telekinetic wants a power reflecting him throwing himself, he should get a power like flight or superleap with the SFX of "telekinetically throwing himself".

[garou]

Re: How far can a telekinetic throw himself?

 

I'd think about letting him do it. I'd even let him use the Realistic Throwing table. Of course, I'm going to treat the whole thing as one giant whalloping Knock-Back attack, but hey, he's now either 12" away (standard STR table, as a standing throw with 30 excess Strength), or somewhat more than 8,045" away (realistic throwing table, from Ultimate Brick), and prone. Probably stunned too. And he's have to actually hit the target hex.

 

But if he wants to do it with no damage, then yeah, Supreme is right.

 

(I wonder how bad the damage would be from 8,045" of knockback, anyway. . . . )

[secretID]

Re: How far can a telekinetic throw himself?

 

I know I've seen somewhere - either rules or FAQs - that you can't use telek to move yourself in any way; you have to buy the movement power.

[Insaniac99]

Re: How far can a telekinetic throw himself?

 

I know I've seen somewhere - either rules or FAQs - that you can't use telek to move yourself in any way; you have to buy the movement power.

 

yeah, but imho it's stupid not to allow something like what garou describes, you can pickup and trown other people and objects, surely you could pickup and throw something you are attached to, that doesn't mean it won't hurt though.

[schir1964]

Re: How far can a telekinetic throw himself?

 

So we have a Telekinetic right. This Telekinetic has a bum leg so he can only move 3 inches at the most. If he had telekinesis of 40' date=' shouldn't he be able to pick himself up and move himself around x-men style? How far do you think he should be able to move? A guy i know said he should only be able to move like 7 inches. I dno if he really thought that or he was just being a deuche but i'd like your opinion. Thanks[/quote']

Per the rules, the power Telekinesis is "reactionless" so that you can't be dragged, moved, or pick yourself up with it.

 

However, there other ways to build this SFX.

 

- Christopher Mullins

[Thia Halmades]

Re: How far can a telekinetic throw himself?

 

My understanding of the rules is as Supreme describes - if you buy TK (and I believe it's in the text body FOR TK) then you can only do what TK allows - the manipulation of other objects. In HERO terms, you want to buy "flight" or "leaping" with the SFX, powered by TK. Which is fine! No problem! But the system does force you to build accordingly, otherwise you're getting "two for one" which the system patently does not allow.

[Kristopher]

Re: How far can a telekinetic throw himself?

 

The published rules don't allow the use of the Telekinesis Power to lift or move yourself, and I wouldn't allow it myself.

 

However, if you wanted to allow it, I'd say use the Realistic Throwing Table, as mentioned earlier, and simply apply 40 STR to the mass of a human being on that table.

[TheRavenIs]

Re: How far can a telekinetic throw himself?

 

What about using 'whatever' you are standing on? TK allows that to be moved under control, so what if your C was standing on the 'whatever'?

[schir1964]

Re: How far can a telekinetic throw himself?

 

What about using 'whatever' you are standing on? TK allows that to be moved under control' date=' so what if your C was standing on the 'whatever'?[/quote']

I wouldn't think this is legal either. Also, the logic behind this type of movement is somewhat bizarre (which is not to say it is bad, just odd) since lifting a platform with other people in it, you are the anchor on which the "push" is used for movement of the object. I think the built in limitation to Telekinesis is that the character is defined as the only anchor for the power (you can't make the ground or anything else the anchor). Therefore, once you step onto the platform you no longer have an anchor to push from and the platform falls or doesn't lift as it were.

 

- Christopher Mullins

[TheRavenIs]

Re: How far can a telekinetic throw himself?

 

If TK is reactionless, then it has no anchor, and it doesn't need one.

[PhilFleischmann]

Re: How far can a telekinetic throw himself?

 

Aaaaaaaagh! Trying to explain telekinesis with real-world physics! Nooooo!

 

You can't use TK to move yourself. Why? Because of game balance issues. It has nothing to do with physics. If you could move yourself with TK, no one would ever buy any movement powers, especially if you allow them to use the "Realistic" throwing tables.

 

But I'm a pretty flexible guy. I suppose I might allow someone to throw themselves with TK. It won't happen very often, because 1) you'll have to make an attack roll to land in the right spot, 2) you are an unbalanced, non-aerodynamic object, 3) you'll hit the ground and take damage like any other thrown object. Generally not a good move, but it might make a good dramatic desparate move attempt in a game. And I would use the regular STR table, not the so-called "realistic" throwing table.

[schir1964]

Re: How far can a telekinetic throw himself?

 

If TK is reactionless' date=' then it has no anchor, and it doesn't need one.[/quote']

Sorry, I wasn't specific enough, Telekinesis is "Reactionless" as far as feedback. Or in Newton's terms, you have an Action, but no Reaction. You can push something away, but can't push yourself away. It's one directional.

 

So to do the "Action" portion does require you to be the anchor. The "Reaction" part doesn't exist so you can't move the anchor to something else.

 

If that's not good enough for you, oh well. (8^D)

 

- Christopher Mullins

[schir1964]

Re: How far can a telekinetic throw himself?

 

You can't use TK to move yourself. Why? Because of game balance issues.

Quite correct. I wasn't trying to explain why Telekinesis works with physics. I was explaining the results of the Telekinesis rules with physics examples. It makes no sense for Telekinesis to be "Reactionless", but that is how the book has defined it. So that's that.

 

- Christopher Mullins

[TheRavenIs]

Re: How far can a telekinetic throw himself?

 

And I am happy we can ignore that if we wish.

[schir1964]

Re: How far can a telekinetic throw himself?

 

And I am happy we can ignore that if we wish.

Agreed.

 

- Christopher Mullins

[garou]

Re: How far can a telekinetic throw himself?

 

But I'm a pretty flexible guy. I suppose I might allow someone to throw themselves with TK. It won't happen very often' date=' because 1) you'll have to make an attack roll to land in the right spot, 2) you are an unbalanced, non-aerodynamic object, 3) you'll hit the ground and take damage like any other thrown object. Generally not a good move, but it might make a good dramatic desparate move attempt in a game. And I would use the regular STR table, not the so-called "realistic" throwing table.[/quote']

 

Um, the whole point of allowing someone with Str 40 teke to use the Realistic Throwing Table was because the 8,045 dice of Knockback damage pretty much ensures that the character will not be making a second attempt.

 

(Yes, I'd warn them first - of how far they would go, and how much damage they take. Anyone who wants to fling themselves, via TK, 10 miles, despite the warning from the GM, deserves the consequences of their actions.)

[Rapier]

Re: How far can a telekinetic throw himself?

 

As it's been said. 0". A Telekinetic cannot move himself with Telekenisis. However, if he had purchased Flight (or actually Leaping would be more accurate) with the SFX of "throwing himself" that would be fine.

 

You cannot use TK in that manner to get around NOT purchasing a movement power. Dump some points into Leaping.

[Insaniac99]

Re: How far can a telekinetic throw himself?

 

I'm glad most of us came to an agreement that its ok to throw yourself ocaisionally as long as all throwing rules such as to hit and damage are followed

[tgrandjean]

Re: How far can a telekinetic throw himself?

 

*chuckles* Personally I'd require him to purchase a Telekinetic tricks multipower. That way he can TK a large single object, a radius of multiple objects, Entangle based on TK 'bands of force' (and allowing TK 'force objects'), TK based Flight (though better out of the MP), an Energy blast (perhaps with double knockback), etc, etc....

[Bloodstone]

Re: How far can a telekinetic throw himself?

 

I wouldn't let somone use the throwing tables. Throwing yourself is called Leaping. As such, if we converted the 40 STR TK directly to normal STR, it would net you +8" of Leaping.

 

Mind you, I would definitly allow a character to try this stunt once or thrice with a Power skill roll. The better the roll, the more active points of Leaping I would let you simulate.

 

But I see a character trying this trick more then a few times and he damn well better pony up some points for Leaping or Flight...

[Markdoc]

Re: How far can a telekinetic throw himself?

 

There's a practical reason as well as a game balance reason, TK is reactionless.

 

Mr 40 TK stands on a car and lifts it with his telekinesis. If he can do that, then presumably the car can interact with his telekinesis and vice versa. When he gets where he wants, he lifts the car in the air to throw it. He now has 1800 pounds of car pressing him down into the ground...

 

Or to put it more simply, try this simple exercise.

 

Lift a chair. So, you can lift - and even throw - a chair (you don't actually have to throw it unless you're Steve Ballmer).

 

Now..... hop up on the chair. Take a firm grip on it. Lift it into the air! Go on, you can do it!

 

Or not.

 

cheers, Mark

[Lucius]

Re: How far can a telekinetic throw himself?

 

Sorry, I wasn't specific enough, Telekinesis is "Reactionless" as far as feedback. Or in Newton's terms, you have an Action, but no Reaction. You can push something away, but can't push yourself away. It's one directional.

 

So to do the "Action" portion does require you to be the anchor. The "Reaction" part doesn't exist so you can't move the anchor to something else.

 

If that's not good enough for you, oh well. (8^D)

 

- Christopher Mullins

 

That actually makes sense, sort of.

 

Lucius Alexander

 

The palindromedary notes we'll have to think about it.

[Lucius]

STR, Running, Telekinesis, Flight

 

It's too early in the morning for me to think clearly, but maybe this idea has merit:

 

Telekinesis is seperate from Flight for the same reasons STR is seperate from Running & Swimming.

 

Lucius Alexander

 

Palindromedary Multipower

[secretID]

Re: How far can a telekinetic throw himself?

 

It might be strange that TK allows you to move or throw others but not yourself, but it's equally strange if TK can fully manipulate other objects but only throw the TK character. If I can pick up a 200 lb. weight and put it on a shelf, why can I only throw myself across the room?

 

I think you should keep TK as it is, change it to give the player full manipulation of himself and make TK more expensive, or insist that any player with TK also have flight.