Help making this power

[DietCokeOfEvil]

Hello,

 

I am fairly new to the game and so is the game master who is running the campaign. I am trying to make a power and am having trouble working through the mechanics... Any help would be appreciated.

 

Basically, the power manifests itself as a claw of black energy with which I make a melee attack with. If it hits, I deal damage, drain body, and heal my own body. This is what I got so far:

 

Abyssal Claw

HTH (10d6 negative energy) 1/2 HTH limitation, 1/4 no knockback 60 active/40 real

Healing (2d6 body) +1 3/4 for once each phase, -3/4 for linked at full power only 55 active, 37 real

Drain Body (3d6 body) +1 reduced return rate of 5 per 1 hour, -3/4 for linked at full power only 60 active, 40 real

 

Any help at reducing the cost of this power would be great! 17 endurance to use makes it really tough.

[Steve Long]

Re: Help making this power

 

Since this is a "how to" and not a rules question, I've moved it to the Discussion board so any Hero fan who wants to can respond. What do you think, Herodom Assembled?

[reapocalypsed]

Re: Help making this power

 

welcome to the game!!

the best way to make a power that harms your opponent and heals/helps you is to use a transfer. nothing very complicated, just a simple transfer, maybe with 1/2 END added on. good luck with your character and your game.

[BoneDaddy]

Re: Help making this power

 

I would suggest a Transfer linked to a Hand to Hand attack, although the hand to hand attack part seems optional.

 

The meta-rule folks like to apply is this: reason from effect. The effect you want - the opponant loses Body and you gain Body, can be simply accomplished by Transfer. The Abyssal Claw part is just a special effect (a nifty one at that.)

 

There is another meta-rule: Given two options, choose the more expensive of the two. Ignore this rule.

[Sean Waters]

Re: Help making this power

 

Hello DCOE. Welcome to the boards and all that.

 

Couple of points on your construct:

 

1. that's a big power. Even re-calculating 1 and 3 to cost 35 points (as I think they should) that is a big power, with over 100 real points spent, and 175 active points in a single attack, you may raise a few GM eyebrows. Mind you that is up to your gaming group.

 

2. 10d6 Hand attack is a lot too: you get to add up to 50 strength to that up to 20d6 damage, so unless the character has a comparatively low strength, that is likely to slide past a lot of campaign damage maxima. Again a matter for your gaming group.

 

3. I belive I understand that you have used healing to allow the character to heal from EVERY hit, but I agree with reapocalypsed that transfer is the better power: I'd let you reduce the 'repeat' rate in the same way you do for healing, and you could have a single power, say a 1d6 transfer that was limited to starting characteristics. OK, not as effective but much cheaper overall and on END. As to that you could have the transfer to two characteristics simultaneously - BODY and END, so you steal both life and energy, and you would still get it under the 60 points to link it to the attack. this also has the advantage that there is a relation between the BODy drained and the BODY received - in your construct, even if the target has 50 points of hardened resistant power defence, you still heal even if no BODY is drained, which does not seemt o be the point.

 

4. If you do stick with the current construct then you can make it cheaper to use most of the time by only applying 9d9 Hand attack damage - then the drain/heal won't cut in - only use full power when you need to get some BODY back.

 

Hope that is helpful.

[ghost-angel]

Re: Help making this power

 

I agree with the others; this is a simple Transfer attack power. Nothing very complicated.

[SpydirShellX]

Re: Help making this power

 

I'm going to disagree here.

Transfer would be a way of constructing it. However, I'm going to presume that was rejected due to the max cap on Transfer. The heal/drain combo doesn't have that issue.

 

First off, I would put Self Only on the heal, unless you've got it healing other people when you use it.

 

One suggestion might be that the HA must do BODY (-1/2) in order for the heal/drain to kick in.

 

However, there was the request to reduce the END cost - 1/2 END only would add some to the cost, but drops the END cost down to 9. Charges also tend to be a great END saver and cost reducer.

 

A belated thought occured to me. With the way aid/tranfer BOD doesn't go away (except over the starting amount), would it technically be advantageous to sell back the recovery rate, so that you could reuse the Aid/Transfer again sooner? Also, if looking for alternate contructs for the ability.... Aid instead of Heal doesn't cost END.

[Hugh Neilson]

Re: Help making this power

 

Abyssal Claw

HTH (10d6 negative energy) 1/2 HTH limitation, 1/4 no knockback 60 active/40 real

Healing (2d6 body) +1 3/4 for once each phase, -3/4 for linked at full power only 55 active, 37 real

Drain Body (3d6 body) +1 reduced return rate of 5 per 1 hour, -3/4 for linked at full power only 60 active, 40 real

 

Any help at reducing the cost of this power would be great! 17 endurance to use makes it really tough.

 

I'm inclined to agree with SpydirShellX that Transfer doesn't work, because it's a drain linked with an Aid, not with Healing.

 

I also agree with others who have noted this is a huge attack power - 16 dmaage classes, plus strength added to the hand attack. Assuming a 10 - 20 STR, this is effectively an 18d6 to 20d6 attack, and that's before the healing is tacked on. That level of power will be both expensive and high END.

 

The construct as written also doesn't technically work. All those Linked powers must be used as a Multiple Power Attack, which means they all attack the same target. I don't think you want to Heal your target.

 

First off, I would ditch the Hand Attack component entirely, and focus on the Drain component of the attack by itself.

 

3d6 Drain: +1 reduced return rate of 5 per 1 hour, +1/2 drains END and BOD, 75 AP Full power only (-1/4), Linked to healing (-1/4) real cost 50 7 END

 

I've kept the damage the same, but added the ability to drain END as well as BOD. For an additional +1/4, you could add two more stats (say STUN and CON), but the above is the equivalent of a 15d6 Energy Blast already, so we're likely already pushing campaign limits, assuming a typical Supers game.

 

2d6 Healing +1 3/4 for capped each phase, Heals both BOD and END (+1/2) 45 AP, Linked to Drain (-1/2), Full Power Only (-1/4), Self Only (-1/2), Healing limited to amount drained from target (-1/2) 16 real points

 

This still handwaves the fact that, as an MPA, this should be targetting the same people. Another approach would be to put a Trigger on the Heal (when Drain succeeds). Again, I've added the ability to heal END. I've also added limits to prevent healing others, and to limit the power to what you drain, so you can't just "drain" the floor, heal if you miss or heal if the target is immune to the drain due to power defense.

 

Adding END to both powers does two things. First, it means your target suffers problems other than potential death. Second, while the power costs 11 END per use, the END healing will average 14 END recovered, provided the target takes the damage. Again, another +1/4 could add two more stats to be healed (the same ones you'd add to the Drain, presumably).

 

Depending on your vision of the power's flexibility, that +1/2 advantage could technically allow you to select any two characteristics each time the power is used. This would be a lot more versatile.

 

Hopefully, this gives you some ideas that may be of use. I wouldn't go too much farther until you discuss the power level with your GM - is he going to allow a 15DC (or greater) attack? Will he be OK with the added recuperation the Healing provides?

[Hugh Neilson]

Re: Help making this power

 

A belated thought occured to me. With the way aid/tranfer BOD doesn't go away (except over the starting amount)' date=' would it technically be advantageous to sell back the recovery rate, so that you could reuse the Aid/Transfer again sooner? Also, if looking for alternate contructs for the ability.... Aid instead of Heal doesn't cost END.[/quote']

 

In 5e, Aid/transfer fades even if the character is below their starting amount.

[SpydirShellX]

Re: Help making this power

 

You sure? I don't have my book with me, but I'm sure I saw something about BOD not fading in the normal way.

[Hyper-Man]

Re: Help making this power

 

You sure? I don't have my book with me' date=' but I'm sure I saw something about BOD not fading in the normal way.[/quote']

 

I'll look it tonight to confirm but I'm pretty sure it's correct.

 

Plus, you can do sneaky things like this:

 

A sneaky power that a unknown/disguised villain could use to seamingly "heal" injured characters but then wears off within 1 day.

 

I can't beleive it's not Healing!: Aid BODY 7d6 (standard effect: 21 points), Delayed Return Rate (points return at the rate of 5 per 6 Hours; +1 1/4) (157 Active Points / Real cost 30); Extra Time (1 Turn (Post-Segment 12), Character May Take No Other Actions, -1 1/2), Concentration (0 DCV; Character is totally unaware of nearby events; -3/4), Others Only (-1/2), Only Restores to Starting Values (-1/2), Costs Endurance (-1/2), 8 Charges (-1/2) End 16

[SpydirShellX]

Re: Help making this power

 

Okay, double-checked my book and I was half-right (or half-wrong).

p.106 - Expendable attributes can use up the points given, but the loss still occurs in the end.

So as long as you don't go back down below where you started the adjustment power, you end up at the point where you started.

[The Weapon]

Re: Help making this power

 

I'll look it tonight to confirm but I'm pretty sure it's correct.

 

Plus, you can do sneaky things like this:

 

A sneaky power that a unknown/disguised villain could use to seamingly "heal" injured characters but then wears off within 1 day.

 

I can't beleive it's not Healing!: Aid BODY 7d6 (standard effect: 21 points), Delayed Return Rate (points return at the rate of 5 per 6 Hours; +1 1/4) (157 Active Points / Real cost 30); Extra Time (1 Turn (Post-Segment 12), Character May Take No Other Actions, -1 1/2), Concentration (0 DCV; Character is totally unaware of nearby events; -3/4), Others Only (-1/2), Only Restores to Starting Values (-1/2), Costs Endurance (-1/2), 8 Charges (-1/2) End 16

 

Oh that's so sneaky! All the villian has to do is "heal" the characters some time before they go on a long trip to take out some distant base. By the time they get there they're feeling the pain and have the choice to go back or go in understrength.

[pinecone]

Re: Help making this power

 

You can also break the powers apart...Take Healing:Simple,Self only, Persistant: Lim only when Abysmal claw does damage (hard to tell with out more info) and a few other lims and its real cheap...

 

How big the claw needs to be depends on the game...one way to get the "Loses body" effect with out buying Drain would be HKA: Penitrating....a couple of dice or so,plus your Strength will be pretty scary....

 

So you might get what you want for a lot less points doing something like this....

[Dust Raven]

Re: Help making this power

 

Hugh makes an excellent point about multi-power attacks and Linked. I absolutely agree Transfer is not the way to go. Points gained from Transfer fade, while points regained from Healing do not. The Healing should be bought with an automatically resetting Trigger though, rather than Linked (making it more expensive, rather than less expensive. It should have a Limitation that it has no effect unless the Drain BODY has effect though. It doesn't make sense to me that the character would get healed even though the target doesn't get injured.

 

I refrain from any evaluation of the level of power that's being used here. I don't know the campaign guidelines. As far as I know, a 10d6 HA plus whatever STR is underpowered for the intended campaign, even with the added Drain.

[Thia Halmades]

Re: Help making this power

 

Ah. A d20 convert. Welcome, DCoE. I am the Lord Captain Thia Halmades. I will not be your host this evening, I'll be watching football. However, it seems from this side of the monitor that your Energy Drain attack is a direct import ability from d20. Referencing my b3wk, I offer the following construct:

 

Abyssal Claw: HtH 6d6 (Affects ED not PD) (30 Active Points); HtH Attack (-1/2), Extra Time (takes a Full Phase to summon Abyssal Claw, -1/4), Gestures (-1/4), Incantations (-1/4) (13 points) plus Transfer BODY 2d6 (30 Active Points); Linked (-1/2), HtH Attack Must Do Body (-1), Costs Extra END (x2 END, -1/2), Gestures (-1/4), Incantations (-1/4), Extra Time (takes a Full Phase to summon Abyssal Claw, -1/4) (8 points) Total cost: 21 points.

 

You could also argue for the additional -1 lim, "Transfer affected by ED" so it remains consistent with the first half, the HtH attack.