CHAMPIONS OF THE NORTH -- What Would You Like To See?

[Twilight]

Re: CHAMPIONS OF THE NORTH -- What Would You Like To See?

 

Is there a reason why most of the characters from the old "Champions Of The North " are to be abandoned ? I've just been using it as a template to write up my Canadian characters for my "All The World's Heros" project and some of them seem to be good ideas. I particularly like "Ambrosia" and "Oracle" would be one of the few precogs that I have seen written up in the "CU". I would hate to lose them.

 

I seconded this. I rather like Ambrosia's powerset as well even if she was a bit underpowered. However that's easily fixable with a little tweaking and doesn't even require altering her gimmick. Don't let the old CotN fade away!

[Lord Liaden]

Re: CHAMPIONS OF THE NORTH -- What Would You Like To See?

 

I found many of the old Champions of the North characters to be interesting concepts and well-rounded personalities. Most people's complaints seem to have been over their low point totals/power levels, but that's an easy thing for individual GMs to upgrade for their campaigns, IME easier than cutting down characters who are too high powered.

 

Nonetheless I have no doubt that the Gestalted One will turn out a roster that his fellow Canuckian HEROphiles will be just as proud of.

[Hermit]

Re: CHAMPIONS OF THE NORTH -- What Would You Like To See?

 

I admit it, though the name Myrmidon has now been taken by a greek in UNITY, the 4th Ed one did have a great quote. If he gets a renamed replacement, I hope they keep the quote.

[Lord Liaden]

Re: CHAMPIONS OF THE NORTH -- What Would You Like To See?

 

I admit it' date=' though the name Myrmidon has now been taken by a greek in UNITY, the 4th Ed one did have a great quote. If he gets a renamed replacement, I hope they keep the quote.[/quote']

 

"In my time, I have seen Evil with power that would make even you crawl back under your rock. And I have seen it fall."

 

Personal favorite of mine. I understand why you like it, Hermit; I can absolutely imagine Captain America saying this.

[GestaltBennie]

Re: CHAMPIONS OF THE NORTH -- What Would You Like To See?

 

It's always a difficult question to ask whether something that was in a previous edition should be thrown out when it's upgraded. Even bad conceptrs can be redeemed, and there were a helluva lot worse characters in Champions 4e than the original heries in CotN, particularly as 5e has been accused of throwing out the baby with the bathwater more than once.

 

For me, it boils down to:

 

1 There's not a heckuva lot of emotional attachment to these characters. They're competent, but not particularly inspiring. Even from this thread. I don't even get marmite outrage in the same way from their absence in the same way that I get from Seeker and CLOWN. I suspect the pre-5e characters that really grabbed people pre-date CotN, and that most people just don't care very much about the three Sentinel teams and/or most of the villains, except on a mechanics level.

 

2. The feel of CotN is that of an author's home campaign. While I like many of the original characters, the underrepresentation of Quebecois characters is a complete joke (which, IIRC, was more of an editorial faux pas than the author's). There's no feel of supers throughout the ages, no sense of heroes and villains tied to Canada's heritage; the evolution of supers is static and unmoving. I'm a big fan of Byrne's Alpha Flight, but some of the characters feel overly derivative. We can do better.

 

3. The blueprint for major Canadian supers in 5e had already been laid down in Champions Universe, Emphasizing the originals would undercut the new guys, It's better to clean the slate.

 

It's always a little arrogant, of course, to say you can do better than what came before, but that's the goal. That's what it has to be, if the revision is worth doinbg. I'm sure you guys will let us know if we don't measure up.

 

(And yes, Myrmidon's quote was tres cool.)

[Teflon Billy]

Re: CHAMPIONS OF THE NORTH -- What Would You Like To See?

 

It's always a difficult question to ask whether something that was in a previous edition should be thrown out when it's upgraded. Even bad conceptrs can be redeemed, and there were a helluva lot worse characters in Champions 4e than the original heries in CotN, particularly as 5e has been accused of throwing out the baby with the bathwater more than once.

 

For me, it boils down to:

 

1 There's not a heckuva lot of emotional attachment to these characters. They're competent, but not particularly inspiring. Even from this thread. I don't even get marmite outrage in the same way from their absence in the same way that I get from Seeker and CLOWN. I suspect the pre-5e characters that really grabbed people pre-date CotN, and that most people just don't care very much about the three Sentinel teams and/or most of the villains, except on a mechanics level.

 

2. The feel of CotN is that of an author's home campaign. While I like many of the original characters, the underrepresentation of Quebecois characters is a complete joke (which, IIRC, was more of an editorial faux pas than the author's). There's no feel of supers throughout the ages, no sense of heroes and villains tied to Canada's heritage; the evolution of supers is static and unmoving. I'm a big fan of Byrne's Alpha Flight, but some of the characters feel overly derivative. We can do better.

 

3. The blueprint for major Canadian supers in 5e had already been laid down in Champions Universe, Emphasizing the originals would undercut the new guys, It's better to clean the slate.

 

It's always a little arrogant, of course, to say you can do better than what came before, but that's the goal. That's what it has to be, if the revision is worth doinbg. I'm sure you guys will let us know if we don't measure up.

 

(And yes, Myrmidon's quote was tres cool.)

This is why we trust you Scott.

 

My money will be waiting for when this is released.

 

TB

[Lord Liaden]

Re: CHAMPIONS OF THE NORTH -- What Would You Like To See?

 

This is why we trust you Scott.

 

My money will be waiting for when this is released.

 

TB

 

Ditto both sentiments.

[Vestnik]

Re: CHAMPIONS OF THE NORTH -- What Would You Like To See?

 

How about a fiendish Quebecois terrorist separatist organization? Or would that just be too silly?

[GestaltBennie]

Re: CHAMPIONS OF THE NORTH -- What Would You Like To See?

 

How about a fiendish Quebecois terrorist separatist organization? Or would that just be too silly?

 

At this point in history, it makes about as much sense as an evil organization in the American South whose goal would be to reenslave blacks and send them all back to the plantations. That ship sailed long ago. So, the answer's no.

 

We will talk about the FLQ in its historical context, and one of the villaind may have his origins in that movement.

[Hermit]

Re: CHAMPIONS OF THE NORTH -- What Would You Like To See?

 

Perhaps you could introduce another villain akin to Flagsmasher (at least in motivation) in the Captain America comics; an Anti-Nationalist who operates within Canada but often goes abroad. The neat thing is he and Borealis would surely clash, setting up fun villain vs villain plot seeds.

[Vestnik]

Re: CHAMPIONS OF THE NORTH -- What Would You Like To See?

 

At this point in history, it makes about as much sense as an evil organization in the American South whose goal would be to reenslave blacks and send them all back to the plantations. That ship sailed long ago. So, the answer's no.

 

Actually, this doesn't relate to Canada, but some sort of resurrected slave-trader character might be an interesting US supervillain. A Nazi-type one.

[gojira]

Re: CHAMPIONS OF THE NORTH -- What Would You Like To See?

 

At this point in history, it makes about as much sense as an evil organization in the American South whose goal would be to reenslave blacks and send them all back to the plantations. That ship sailed long ago. So, the answer's no.

 

We will talk about the FLQ in its historical context, and one of the villaind may have his origins in that movement.

 

And yet, it wasn't that long ago that the Klu Klux Klan endorsed Ronald Regan for president. (He rejected their endorsement, btw.) While a serious seperatist movement is out of the question, an old, bitter and much reduced villain group could be very nasty. Consider how they must feel when their high ideals for a seperate state are rejected by everyone, including the people they would "liberate."

 

 

Just tossin' ideas out. I don't really expect you to do this. Such a villain group, either KKK or FLQ, would probably be in poor taste.

[rjcurrie]

Re: CHAMPIONS OF THE NORTH -- What Would You Like To See?

 

I could see one or more Quebec nationalist (that is, separatist) heroes. While there is not a heavy separtist vibe coming out of La Belle Province these days, the idea of Quebec as a nation is still very much alive. For example, there was the Quebec lawyer who recently proposed the idea of a separate Team Quebec competing in the World Hockey Championship when it is held in Quebec City in 2009.

[00Machado]

Re: CHAMPIONS OF THE NORTY -- What Would You Like To See?

 

What's a "Norty"?

 

I think it would be good to talk about Canada's interaction with the US - cultural, economic, emigration, security/super security cooperation/points of contention. Also perhaps a section on "noticable differences" between the US and Canada - what a traveller or new transplant would pick up on, to help GMs establish a Canadian "feel" for what is likely a largely US group of players.

 

...

 

Section on stereotypes, short "myths vs facts of Canada", things like that.

 

Perhaps a quick section on what changes might make other published materials work better in a Canadian setting? Like Champs Battlegrounds, various Villany Amok scenarios, etc...

 

I agree with the above suggestions. I'd also like to see a section in how to bring the elements from the book (heroes, villains, plots etc.) into the U.S. champions capmaigns, and vice verse for cross polination of US elements into your Canadian based campaign. This would help with the way I'd probably incorporate the material into various campaigns.

*Guest starts, and recurring plot themes being one way

*Occasionally play the Canadian supers. Sometimes the adventure plot is local to Canada. Sometimes there's some bleed over from the US, or wherever.

This would be sort of a campaign within a cmpaign, that we played when taking a break from the main US-based campaign

[00Machado]

Re: CHAMPIONS OF THE NORTY -- What Would You Like To See?

 

Scott, I hope your surgical prospects turn out well. Quite apart from wanting good things for you, anything that impairs your ability to write game books deprives us all.

 

As for what I'd like to see in this book, besides what you've mentioned: I agree with Supreme Serpent that the book should be written with an eye toward the visiting foreigner, particularly Americans. Canadian politics and law enforcement should be covered in fair detail, since these are probably the areas that foreign superheroes are likely to run afoul of the most often. Add lots of little details of how the culture of Canada differs from that of the United States, to give visitors a sense of local color. Emphasize features of the major Canadian cities and other areas which have potential for interesting encounters for visitors; that was one of the elements of the previous CotN that I particularly appreciated. At the same time, remember that a lot of Canadians are also likely to buy this book, and many of us are not familiar with all the elements of this huge land, so please delineate the potential of particular areas as bases for a campaign. That might even tempt a few Yanks to base a campaign up here.

 

Please give some attention to Canadian folklore that provides adventure or character-origin possibilities, like aboriginal myths and regional "monsters." At the same time I'd also like to see some discussion of Canada around the world. This country has long been active internationally and is currently very hands-on in several regions, notably Afghanistan. It's quite possible to run into Canadian heroes or villains at work in other countries.

 

Speaking of international Canadian supers, IMO this book would be an excellent place in which to develop Teleios further. He was raised in Canada, and his major laboratory facility is supposedly located here. I'd really appreciate seeing maps and descriptions of that laboratory, as well as more of his servant creations.

 

I'll give this some more thought and get back to you. I just want to add that you are unquestionably the first person I would have tapped to write a new Champions Of The North, so I'm delighted you got the assignment and very much look forward to seeing it. You have at least one guaranteed sale here.

 

Yeah. What he said. Those would all make the book very useful and likely to inspire campaigns to be set or brought to Canada, which would make the book an idea generator instead of just a resource to be mined for "stuff"

[00Machado]

Re: CHAMPIONS OF THE NORTY -- What Would You Like To See?

 

 

For specific sub genre campaigns, what are the high tech, mystic and crime scenes like? What, if any, are the local analogs or answers to Vibora Bay and or Millenium city?

 

QUOTE]

 

More agreement here. Would a Batman style game fit there? Where? I can imagine a game in a city with international shipping traffic, local high rises, various foreign agents. But where oh where to set it so that it wouldn't seem forced?

[Lemurion]

Re: CHAMPIONS OF THE NORTY -- What Would You Like To See?

 

 

For specific sub genre campaigns, what are the high tech, mystic and crime scenes like? What, if any, are the local analogs or answers to Vibora Bay and or Millenium city?

 

QUOTE]

 

More agreement here. Would a Batman style game fit there? Where? I can imagine a game in a city with international shipping traffic, local high rises, various foreign agents. But where oh where to set it so that it wouldn't seem forced?

 

mmmmmmmmmmmmm........ Vancouver maybe?

[Hugh Neilson]

Re: CHAMPIONS OF THE NORTY -- What Would You Like To See?

 

 

mmmmmmmmmmmmm........ Vancouver maybe?

 

Given how many US-set action/adventure shows are actually filmed in Vancouver, that sounds like a good choice.

[Lord Liaden]

Re: CHAMPIONS OF THE NORTY -- What Would You Like To See?

 

Vancouver is an excellent site for adventures, or as a base of operations for a campaign. It's one of Canada's largest cities, and one of the busiest ports on the whole west coast of the continent, so smuggling and espionage scenarios are certainly possible here. It's the gateway to Canada from the Orient, and has a diverse ethnicity, as well as increasing presence of Oriental gang crime. You don't have to travel far from the city to hit large wilderness areas: mountains, forests and of course ocean. The provincial capital of Victoria is a short ferry ride away on Vancouver Island. There are several major universities in the vicinity.

 

I could go on, but you get the idea.

[TheQuestionMan]

Re: CHAMPIONS OF THE NORTH -- What Would You Like To See?

 

[Campaign] Champions of Vancouver (GM'ed by Me)

http://www.herogames.com/forums/showthread.php?t=32740

 

[Campaign] Canadian Rocket Brigade (GM'ed by Chiba Bob)

http://www.herogames.com/forums/showthread.php?t=36045

 

 

 

Cheers

 

QM

[Guest Major Tom]

Re: CHAMPIONS OF THE NORTH -- What Would You Like To See?

 

Evil Steve: with regards to your comment about Quebec, were you referring

to the cultural and language difficulties that have come up from time to time

between Quebec and the rest of Canada's provinces?

 

 

Major Tom

[Chiba Bob]

Re: CHAMPIONS OF THE NORTY -- What Would You Like To See?

 

Vancouver is an excellent site for adventures' date=' or as a base of operations for a campaign. It's one of Canada's largest cities, and one of the busiest ports on the whole west coast of the continent, so smuggling and espionage scenarios are certainly possible here. It's the gateway to Canada from the Orient, and has a diverse ethnicity, as well as increasing presence of Oriental gang crime. You don't have to travel far from the city to hit large wilderness areas: mountains, forests and of course ocean. The provincial capital of Victoria is a short ferry ride away on Vancouver Island. There are several major universities in the vicinity.[/quote']

 

Asian gangs tend to keep a low profile. East Indian gangs have lots of colour, they have adopted the whole "Gangsta Rap" image thing with their own cultural version of Rap Music (nails on chalkboard ) including drive-by shootings.The Hell's Angles are very active too in the drug trade with a few assassinations under their belts.Not to mention, a few shady business types into bars and casinos.

 

The East End of Vancouver, is right out of a Miller graphic novel with creepy back alleys (see highlander TV series) except the real ones are inhabited by the homeless (the mentally ill), drug addicts shooting up and dumpster divers. The perfect setting for any Dark Champions campaign.

[TheQuestionMan]

Re: CHAMPIONS OF THE NORTH -- What Would You Like To See?

 

Yeah Downtown Vancouver's East End lives down to its name and title as the worst slum in Canada. I worked Security Graveyards for 8yrs in the area. It is aptly named and reviled even by those who live there.

 

Not to mention' date=' a few shady business types into bars and casinos.[/quote']

You forgot Hotels, the Port of Vancouver, and the Skytrain (Elevated Passenger Trains).

 

 

Ugh

 

QM

[Chiba Bob]

Re: CHAMPIONS OF THE NORTH -- What Would You Like To See?

 

[Campaign] Champions of Vancouver (GM'ed by Me)

http://www.herogames.com/forums/showthread.php?t=32740

 

[Campaign] Canadian Rocket Brigade (GM'ed by Chiba Bob)

http://www.herogames.com/forums/showthread.php?t=36045

 

Thanks for the plug, QM!

 

One of the pretenses of the campaign was to generate early background ideas and history for a purposed Champions of the North. For instance, I would like to think that Vancouver's “Zombie-Walk” (

) as a celebration (think Guy Fox Day) of the Necrolitic zombie outbreaks in the 30s. The campaign has generated lots of material, we will have to wait and see what Scott uses (if any) in the book.

[Chiba Bob]

Re: CHAMPIONS OF THE NORTH -- What Would You Like To See?

 

Yeah Downtown Vancouver's East End lives down to its name and title as the worst slum in Canada. I worked Security Graveyards for 8yrs in the area. It is aptly named and reviled even by those who live there.

 

 

You forgot Hotels, the Port of Vancouver, and the Skytrain (Elevated Passenger Trains).

 

Just glossed over, never forgotten! Just like I did not mention all the other things to be found in those back allyways.