Feats...

[DarkGreen]

I'm starting this thread to encourage people to post "feats". We all know what they are in the DnD context: small special things that exceptional characters can do that normal characters can't. I've been writing a collection of them recently and figured I'd start a thread. I have a bunch but will post slowly to keep from making a mondo thread at the very beginning (which means nobody will read it )

 

Examples:

 

Weapon Master – 9 pts

A Weapon Master can instantly use any weapon or object he picks up in combat. Even the most exotic weapon is familiar in his hands. The only thing that may slow him down in using a weapon would be a complex weapon who’s very function is not clear (such as a musket, which requires multiple non-obvious steps to use), but once figured out even that weapon will not present combat penalties.

Combat Effect: The Weapon Master never suffers OCV penalties due to lack of weapon familiarity.

Prerequisites: none

Power construction: 3 PSLs vs weapon non-familiarity penalties (9 pts)

 

Battledancer -- 12 or 16 pts

A battledancer is a master of the parry and dodge. He is always moving and dodging, meeting every opponent’s blows with parries and constantly moving.

Combat effect: The character is assumed to abort to dodge or block at the beginning of each segment after acting. The character should define whether this is usually blocking or dodging (assumes dodging if nothing is indicated).

Prerequisites: SPD of 3 or 4

Power construction: +3 SPD, only for dodging/blocking (no extra half or zero phase actions, so no reallotment of levels) (-1.5) : 12 pts or +4 SPD with same limitations: 16

 

 

-DG

[CourtFool]

And all this time I have been buying Weapon Familiarity? I think Weapon Master is far too cheap. I am not sure it is appropriate to use PSL for something that already has a specific skill for it. I would take a look at the WF list and see what it would cost to buy all the WF in your campaign and then adjust that up or down as you feel appropriate. Call it Weapon Familiarity (All Weapons).

 

I also think Battle Dancer is too cheap. Any SPD adjustment needs to be carefully monitored. Why not some nice Defensive Combat Levels? +3 DCV Special Effect: Always bobbing and weaving.

[DarkGreen]

Originally posted by CourtFool

And all this time I have been buying Weapon Familiarity? I think Weapon Master is far too cheap. I am not sure it is appropriate to use PSL for something that already has a specific skill for it. I would take a look at the WF list and see what it would cost to buy all the WF in your campaign and then adjust that up or down as you feel appropriate. Call it Weapon Familiarity (All Weapons).

 

I also think Battle Dancer is too cheap. Any SPD adjustment needs to be carefully monitored. Why not some nice Defensive Combat Levels? +3 DCV Special Effect: Always bobbing and weaving.

 

WeaponFam: Your characters typically have more than 9pts of weapon familiarities????!!!! Holy weapon selection batman!

... Seriously though, most characters in our campaign spend 2-4 points on weapon fams. 9 points for all seemed reasonable to all the GMs, and it can't be TOO abusive because nobodies ever bothered to take it.

 

Battledancer: Hmm... the +3DCV you propose instead is actually CHEAPER than the feat you're saying is too cheap, at least if limited to be similar in applicability (only during non-attacking segments). I guess that's what I was comparing to in order to see if it was too cheap or not. The only time I could see someone wanting it is if they had a really good OCV and wanted to use the blocking mechanism instead of the dodging mechanism to represent being hard to hit due to parrying. Given that it costs the same or more than a flat out +3 DCV and blocking requires opposed skill rolls with increasing penalties I don't see the problem. The only real impact is that a high OCV type character using the block mechanism is going to get to hit back first no matter what his DEX. Given the relatively high cost, again, I have no problem with that. Can you give an example of a synergy that is giving you concern?

 

-DG

 

PS: In our campaign martial arts are highly limited (to monks and certain ethnic classes), so people wouldn't typically have Battledancer stacked with Martial Dodge available.

 

PPS: At 100 pts Battledance with Martial Dodge, SPD 3 and high dex would be half of someone's character!

[The Mad GM]

What about Normal Characteristic Maximums? If you go over 4, don't you need to pay double, or am I misremembering something about Powers and Stats...

[CourtFool]

Now that I think of it, I have not seen too many people take more than 4 points worth of WF; Common Melee and Common Missile. It is your game afterall, you are free to do as you please. I simply disagree that it should only cost 9 points to use any weapon in my campaign.

 

I was not suggesting any limitation on the DCV at all.

 

Maybe I misunderstood the rules somewhere. I thought the +3 DCV from Dodge remained until your next phase. If it did, you would not need extra actions to dodge. Blocking would be another matter, however, I think a straight across +3 DCV is simpler mechanically and the special effect would still give you the same feel. If the opponent misses, the player can decide whether it was a dodge or parry. You also would not have to worry about someone being much faster than you since you do not have to count which segments you can Dodge or Block. Even if they have a SPD 12, you still get your +3 bonus.

[DarkGreen]

Originally posted by The Mad GM

What about Normal Characteristic Maximums? If you go over 4, don't you need to pay double, or am I misremembering something about Powers and Stats...

 

I'm not really sure how that applies to talents/powers that use characteristics to simulate powers. Does lightning reflexes double in value if it takes your "initiative DEX" above the max? I'll post a question to Steve on that one.

 

-DG

[nblade]

Originally posted by DarkGreen

I'm not really sure how that applies to talents/powers that use characteristics to simulate powers. Does lightning reflexes double in value if it takes your "initiative DEX" above the max? I'll post a question to Steve on that one.

 

-DG

 

From what I can remember any Characteristic brought as a power is not effected by NCM. So in the case of lightning reflexes, it never doubles. Of course because of this issue (also sometimes called "The Defender Exploit"), a GM needs to carefully monitor any characteristic brought as a power.

[DarkGreen]

Steve is SHARP

 

The hero book anticipates our question. Page 213, lower left paragraph. Chars bought as powers or talents DON'T suffer from doubling under normal characteristic maxima.

 

Son of a gun. I never realized that.

 

-DG

[Vondy]

Originally posted by CourtFool

And all this time I have been buying Weapon Familiarity? I think Weapon Master is far too cheap. I am not sure it is appropriate to use PSL for something that already has a specific skill for it. I would take a look at the WF list and see what it would cost to buy all the WF in your campaign and then adjust that up or down as you feel appropriate. Call it Weapon Familiarity (All Weapons).

 

I also think Battle Dancer is too cheap. Any SPD adjustment needs to be carefully monitored. Why not some nice Defensive Combat Levels? +3 DCV Special Effect: Always bobbing and weaving.

 

I think the idea is that the unfamiliar weapon penalty is -3 OCV.

 

It would cost 9 points to purchase +3 levels versus OCV penalties (not just unfamiliar weapon).

 

So the weaponmaster spends the 9 points to offest the pens instead of purchasing all the weapon familiarities.

 

It works for me, but I'm easy.

[GradonSilverton]

Originally posted by D-Man

I think the idea is that the unfamiliar weapon penalty is -3 OCV.

 

It would cost 9 points to purchase +3 levels versus OCV penalties (not just unfamiliar weapon).

 

So the weaponmaster spends the 9 points to offest the pens instead of purchasing all the weapon familiarities.

 

It works for me, but I'm easy.

 

Are you refering to the Penality Skill Levels? If so, this must be a GM call. I see Penality Skill Levels as applying to Called Shot, Range, Ect.... not something that Already has a place in the system as Weapon Familiarity...

 

I'm leaving off Firearm type Weapons and have concluded that this would cost roughly 40 points.... I think 9 is REAL REAL CHEAP!!! 1/2 at a MIN is what I'd suggest here....

 

This can be really powerful as this Character would virtually never be caught without a weapon, and I dont think it should be allowed lightly.

 

As for the Battle Dancer...well, the 3 levels of DCV would actually cost 15, assuming you want them useful against Ranged attacks also, if not then 9 points for HTH...

 

I'm not as concerned about this one, although I'd rather see something along the lines Aborting to Dodge, DFC, ect Bonus. In a fantasy campaign, seeing a character with a base DCV of 5, but an Auto bonus of 3 gives them a 8 base....thats dang powerful.

 

Now that I'm done disagreeing, I like your idea about feets...I hadn't thought about incorporating something like this and now I'll have to work some up myself... Until then lets see somemore!!!

[Nevenall]

Asassin/Thief Feats

 

I have been working up a few feat-like special skills that could be part of a profession package deal.

So far I've done a few assassin ones.

Some of them you could even make free manuevers that any character with the applicable skill can do.

 

Silent Kill

Real Cost: 2 points

Darkness (Hearing Group, One Hex)

0 End Cost +1/2

Concentration (0 DCV) -1/2

Instant -1/2

No Range -1/2

Only to silence a kill -1

Requires Skill Roll (Stealth) -1/2

 

Trained Kill

Real Cost: 5 points

PSL (+4 vs. Targeting, for either Blades or Bows)

Concentration (0 DCV) -1/2

Requires Skill Roll (Stealth) -1/2

Only Against Unaware Opponents -1/2

 

Sprinting

Real Cost: 4 points

+3†Running

0 End Cost +1/2

Concentration (0 DCV) -1/2

Instant (Must roll every phase) -1/2

Requires Skill Roll (Dex Roll) -1/2

[DarkGreen]

Well... these are sure to draw lots of critique....

 

=====================================

Off-handed weapon parry – 3 pts

A warrior skilled with off handed weapon parry is able to use a weapon or object in his off hand defensively as well as a normal character can use a shield. An example of this would be cloak-fighting.

Combat Effect: A tiny object (no STR min) gives DCV equivalent to a small shield, a small object (STR min below 5) gives DCV equivalent to a medium shield, and a medium object (STR min 6+) gives DCV as a large shield.

Prerequisites: WF common melee and at least 2 CSLs

Power construction: Bought as spending the points to reduce the STR minimum on the shield by one level, otherwise just a change of special effects. Difference between 15 and 12 points for large shield is most expensive.

 

Expert Duelist – 5 pts

An expert duelist can draw his foe out, causing them to overextend and reveal key points of attack. He also is an expert at catching an opponent off guard and off balance to deliver vicious strikes.

Combat Effect: When the character successfully blocks an opponent’s attack he can also attempt to draw them out and learn their fighting style. This increases the deadliness of his strikes.

Prerequisites:

Power contruction: Find Weakness with chosen weapon, 13- (14), may only make rolls in same segment as a succesful block (opposed RSR plus limited use) –1.75 [Note that a half phase is required to be available, so this does not combine synergistically with battledancer except on segments when the character has a normal phase. For example if the enemy goes first in a phase and the Expert Duelist is blocking already and blocks successfully, then the Duelist can use a half phase to make a FW roll and still have half a phase left.]

=============================================

 

Before I get flamed too bad let me point out that the off-hand weapon parry basically just lets people change special effects. In hero system there isn't any fundamental attack advantage to having a weapon in the off hand UNLESS someone buys ambidex (which is expensive) so that they could then choose reasonably which weapon to attack with. I consider that insignificant.

 

-DG

[eepjr24]

Originally posted by DarkGreen

Well... these are sure to draw lots of critique....

 

=====================================

Off-handed weapon parry – 3 pts

A warrior skilled with off handed weapon parry is able to use a weapon or object in his off hand defensively as well as a normal character can use a shield. An example of this would be cloak-fighting.

Combat Effect: A tiny object (no STR min) gives DCV equivalent to a small shield, a small object (STR min below 5) gives DCV equivalent to a medium shield, and a medium object (STR min 6+) gives DCV as a large shield.

Prerequisites: WF common melee and at least 2 CSLs

Power construction: Bought as spending the points to reduce the STR minimum on the shield by one level, otherwise just a change of special effects. Difference between 15 and 12 points for large shield is most expensive.

 

Expert Duelist – 5 pts

An expert duelist can draw his foe out, causing them to overextend and reveal key points of attack. He also is an expert at catching an opponent off guard and off balance to deliver vicious strikes.

Combat Effect: When the character successfully blocks an opponent’s attack he can also attempt to draw them out and learn their fighting style. This increases the deadliness of his strikes.

Prerequisites:

Power contruction: Find Weakness with chosen weapon, 13- (14), may only make rolls in same segment as a succesful block (opposed RSR plus limited use) –1.75 [Note that a half phase is required to be available, so this does not combine synergistically with battledancer except on segments when the character has a normal phase. For example if the enemy goes first in a phase and the Expert Duelist is blocking already and blocks successfully, then the Duelist can use a half phase to make a FW roll and still have half a phase left.]

=============================================

 

Before I get flamed too bad let me point out that the off-hand weapon parry basically just lets people change special effects. In hero system there isn't any fundamental attack advantage to having a weapon in the off hand UNLESS someone buys ambidex (which is expensive) so that they could then choose reasonably which weapon to attack with. I consider that insignificant.

 

-DG

 

I would disagree with the way you built both of these. Your campaign I guess. My way on the first one would be +X DCV, OIF Off Hand Weapon. Comes out at 3.3 points per level.

 

The second one is not legal as built, since an attack action (which includes block) ends your phase. I would allow it if you said "Only on phase following successful block (-1/2)", and I would also not give it any additional limitation points.

 

Just MNSHO, but you seem to be giving alot away for very low amount of points. These are supposed to be feats out of the range of normal humans, but at the 3 point range, even a bar room brawler could afford the first one and it is much more efficient than the equivalent skill levels.

 

- Ernie

[slaughterj]

Originally posted by DarkGreen

Well... these are sure to draw lots of critique....

 

=====================================

Off-handed weapon parry – 3 pts

A warrior skilled with off handed weapon parry is able to use a weapon or object in his off hand defensively as well as a normal character can use a shield. An example of this would be cloak-fighting.

Combat Effect: A tiny object (no STR min) gives DCV equivalent to a small shield, a small object (STR min below 5) gives DCV equivalent to a medium shield, and a medium object (STR min 6+) gives DCV as a large shield.

Prerequisites: WF common melee and at least 2 CSLs

Power construction: Bought as spending the points to reduce the STR minimum on the shield by one level, otherwise just a change of special effects. Difference between 15 and 12 points for large shield is most expensive.

 

Expert Duelist – 5 pts

An expert duelist can draw his foe out, causing them to overextend and reveal key points of attack. He also is an expert at catching an opponent off guard and off balance to deliver vicious strikes.

Combat Effect: When the character successfully blocks an opponent’s attack he can also attempt to draw them out and learn their fighting style. This increases the deadliness of his strikes.

Prerequisites:

Power contruction: Find Weakness with chosen weapon, 13- (14), may only make rolls in same segment as a succesful block (opposed RSR plus limited use) –1.75 [Note that a half phase is required to be available, so this does not combine synergistically with battledancer except on segments when the character has a normal phase. For example if the enemy goes first in a phase and the Expert Duelist is blocking already and blocks successfully, then the Duelist can use a half phase to make a FW roll and still have half a phase left.]

=============================================

 

Before I get flamed too bad let me point out that the off-hand weapon parry basically just lets people change special effects. In hero system there isn't any fundamental attack advantage to having a weapon in the off hand UNLESS someone buys ambidex (which is expensive) so that they could then choose reasonably which weapon to attack with. I consider that insignificant.

 

-DG

 

Regarding off-hand parry, I allow those with 2 - weapon fighting or ambidexterity to get a +1DCV for an "offhand" weapon not used to attack with in a given phase - think it came from 4e FH...

[sbarron]

Originally posted by eepjr24

Just MNSHO, but you seem to be giving alot away for very low amount of points. These are supposed to be feats out of the range of normal humans, but at the 3 point range, even a bar room brawler could afford the first one and it is much more efficient than the equivalent skill levels.- Ernie

 

I think of these feats being like talents and powers. Just because your character can afford to pay for them, doesn't mean you can get them. All of them would require GM approval.

[Talon]

Don't forget that unlike D&D, these don't all have to be combat-oriented.

 

Ties of Honor: Detect Truthful Statements 18- (Range, Sense) (17 Active Points); Only for sensing heartfelt oaths (-1), total cost 8 points.

 

This could represent a paladin's ability to know when someone was making an honest oath -- a good way to avoid "lawful stupid" syndrome, without being a perfect polygraph (which would pose a lot of plot headaches for the GM).

[DarkGreen]

Originally posted by slaughterj

Regarding off-hand parry, I allow those with 2 - weapon fighting or ambidexterity to get a +1DCV for an "offhand" weapon not used to attack with in a given phase - think it came from 4e FH...

 

5th edition has an "off hand weapon familiarity" that costs 1 pt and provides +1 DCV for people with a weapon in each hand, see pg 54, note 4.

 

-DG

[GradonSilverton]

Originally posted by DarkGreen

Well... these are sure to draw lots of critique....

 

=====================================

Off-handed weapon parry – 3 pts

A warrior skilled with off handed weapon parry is able to use a weapon or object in his off hand defensively as well as a normal character can use a shield. An example of this would be cloak-fighting.

Combat Effect: A tiny object (no STR min) gives DCV equivalent to a small shield, a small object (STR min below 5) gives DCV equivalent to a medium shield, and a medium object (STR min 6+) gives DCV as a large shield.

Prerequisites: WF common melee and at least 2 CSLs

Power construction: Bought as spending the points to reduce the STR minimum on the shield by one level, otherwise just a change of special effects. Difference between 15 and 12 points for large shield is most expensive.

 

Expert Duelist – 5 pts

An expert duelist can draw his foe out, causing them to overextend and reveal key points of attack. He also is an expert at catching an opponent off guard and off balance to deliver vicious strikes.

Combat Effect: When the character successfully blocks an opponent’s attack he can also attempt to draw them out and learn their fighting style. This increases the deadliness of his strikes.

Prerequisites:

Power contruction: Find Weakness with chosen weapon, 13- (14), may only make rolls in same segment as a succesful block (opposed RSR plus limited use) –1.75 [Note that a half phase is required to be available, so this does not combine synergistically with battledancer except on segments when the character has a normal phase. For example if the enemy goes first in a phase and the Expert Duelist is blocking already and blocks successfully, then the Duelist can use a half phase to make a FW roll and still have half a phase left.]

=============================================

 

Dont forget that WF : Off Hand grants a plus 1 DCV when equiped with the weapon....Also, in creating your weapons, certain ones can possess DCV Mods....take a swordsmas for example, he can be wielding a long sword in his right hand and using his off hand to hold a fencer's spear for parrying purposes...Make the Spear a DCV mod if being used Defensively (no attacking with it)....

 

Dang looks like someone posted the WF : Off HAnd while I was typing this....just go and steal my thunder!

[DarkGreen]

Originally posted by eepjr24

I would disagree with the way you built both of these. Your campaign I guess. My way on the first one would be +X DCV, OIF Off Hand Weapon. Comes out at 3.3 points per level.

 

The second one is not legal as built, since an attack action (which includes block) ends your phase. I would allow it if you said "Only on phase following successful block (-1/2)", and I would also not give it any additional limitation points.

 

Just MNSHO, but you seem to be giving alot away for very low amount of points. These are supposed to be feats out of the range of normal humans, but at the 3 point range, even a bar room brawler could afford the first one and it is much more efficient than the equivalent skill levels.

 

- Ernie

 

Well, on the first one you're charging the character more than just buying some 3 pt CSLs which can go to OCV or DCV, AND if he bought levels instead they would stack with a shield. I think you're overestimating the capability of shield expert. All it really does is change the special effect on the shield (look at how shield is built pg 334) to define the OAF as a weapon. I've lowered the weight a little to give it some actual value for the points. Keep in mind that this is not DnD, HAVING A SECOND WEAPON PROVIDES NO PRIMA FACIAE ADVANTAGE TO THE CHARACTER. They would still need to use rapid attack to take more than one swing and they can already do that with one weapon. Basically it's just special effects with almost no game effect. The way the rules are structured now nobody ever builds a two-weaponed character because shields are so efficient, and yet in fiction the two weaponed characters are all baaaad. I was trying to bring in some of that flavor and realized that there isn't really any reason for this to cost many points. Frankly I think comparing changing the special effect on a shield as equivalent to selling DCV levels cheap is poor reasoning.

 

And your second comment is, forgive the bluntness, silly. Nothing happens after an attack action. The character spends his first half phase on the FW roll and then tries to block. If he fails to block or if the enemy he rolled FW against does not attack him the FW roll is mooted.

 

-DG

[DarkGreen]

Originally posted by Geoff Speare

Don't forget that unlike D&D, these don't all have to be combat-oriented.

 

Ties of Honor: Detect Truthful Statements 18- (Range, Sense) (17 Active Points); Only for sensing heartfelt oaths (-1), total cost 8 points.

 

This could represent a paladin's ability to know when someone was making an honest oath -- a good way to avoid "lawful stupid" syndrome, without being a perfect polygraph (which would pose a lot of plot headaches for the GM).

 

I'm glad you made it only for heartfelt oaths! In my campaign I might also not make it a sense, just to require the player to remind the GM when he is detecting!

 

Could be plot dangerous, but many of my corrupt types are rich enough that they would take umbrage at being asked to swear an oath

 

I'd totally allow that one.

 

-DG

[GradonSilverton]

Originally posted by DarkGreen

Keep in mind that this is not DnD, HAVING A SECOND WEAPON PROVIDES NO PRIMA FACIAE ADVANTAGE TO THE CHARACTER. They would still need to use rapid attack to take more than one swing and they can already do that with one weapon. Basically it's just special effects with almost no game effect. The way the rules are structured now nobody ever builds a two-weaponed character because shields are so efficient, and yet in fiction the two weaponed characters are all baaaad.

-DG

 

You sure? I've seen a Two Weapon Fighting Character with Rapid attack HTH....I've seen him destroy a Fully armored of virtually equal power. Dont underestimate the 2 Weapon Character! Thats when he get ya!

[GradonSilverton]

Originally posted by Geoff Speare

Don't forget that unlike D&D, these don't all have to be combat-oriented.

 

Ties of Honor: Detect Truthful Statements 18- (Range, Sense) (17 Active Points); Only for sensing heartfelt oaths (-1), total cost 8 points.

 

This could represent a paladin's ability to know when someone was making an honest oath -- a good way to avoid "lawful stupid" syndrome, without being a perfect polygraph (which would pose a lot of plot headaches for the GM).

 

I agree with DarkGreen in this that I see no problem...the only tweak I might suggest is No Conscious Controll....that allows GM controll over the balance, and give a little flavor to the ability.

[slaughterj]

Originally posted by DarkGreen

5th edition has an "off hand weapon familiarity" that costs 1 pt and provides +1 DCV for people with a weapon in each hand, see pg 54, note 4.

 

-DG

 

I require this familiarity as well, been running some FH since 5e came out, seems the off-hand familiar may have incorporated the 4e FH rule I'm thinking of? Either that, or how I'm doing it just happens to work out just like the rules provide

[slaughterj]

Originally posted by eepjr24

I would disagree with the way you built both of these. Your campaign I guess. My way on the first one would be +X DCV, OIF Off Hand Weapon. Comes out at 3.3 points per level.

 

Probably would have an additional lim - only vs. HtH/Melee attacks (-1/2 lim?) - since normal DCV levels apply vs all attacks but this seems directed toward melee fighting (though perhaps not?).

[slaughterj]

I like the idea of these sorts of "feats" for certain kinds of campaigns. While I generally run swords-&-sorcery (darker, deadlier, less magic) or "typical" fantasy-style campaigns, I've long thought of running a "Hawk the Slayer" type of FH campaign, where people could buy AutoFire for their archers, and other such "feats"/powers/talents, making for larger-than-life abilities, but of course the risks/challenges would be commensurate.