Speedsters:

[SSgt Baloo]

I've run (and GM-ed for) a number of speedster characters in the past. I had to kind of creep up on the challenge of building a speedy character.

 

My first build was a character with a Dex of 50 and speed 12. Of course, since we were limited to 250 points, that left only 70 points for everything else. Once I started playing this guy, I realized that SPD 12 and REC 5 means that Captain Zippy turns into Captain Gasping-For-Breath very quickly.

 

I just bought Star Hero this month. Champions is next. I don't own Ultimate Speedster (US). If you have US, why should (or shouldn't) I buy it before I get Champions?

 

Some of you are very experienced with this sort of thing. How do YOU create speedsters?

[input.jack]

Re: Speedsters:

 

My current favorite write-up is for a speedster named "Cheetah!". (yes, the exclamation point is officially part of her name). Having spent years runnign speedsters with Speeds of 9-12, and having realized that running such a character is dooming youself to never go to the bathroom again (because its ALWAYS your turn to move), I got clever.

 

I realized that in the DCAU animated Justice League and JCU series, the Flash can move -blindingly- fast....but he doesnt necessarily -think- of what to do that much faster than anyone else.

 

So I designed Cheetah! so that her Powers boost her Speed from its base of 3, up to a 6 Speed. She has scads and scads of "ground-flight" and PSL's with moving tasks up the Time Chart (so that she basically moves 100 times faster than a normal person), as well as the usual Multipower of rapid-fire punches, whirlwinds, instant change, and so on and so forth.

 

Shes a hoot!

 

AND, because her Speed is only 6, it means I GET TO GO TO THE LOO!

 

 

Hope that helped

[OddHat]

Re: Speedsters:

 

If you're an experienced Champions GM, the actual Champions book won't give you as many new ideas as Ultimate Speedster, though it's still worth getting.

 

My favorite build for a Speedster is a 6-7 SPD, a fair movement power, 26-29 DEX, Combat Luck, Speedster Martial Arts (Passing Strike, Flying Dodge, and whatever else you'd like) and either a "Speed Tricks" Super Skill or a Cosmic "Speed Tricks" VPP. The basic power set covers the Flash role pretty well, and the Super Skill or VPP covers those wild color powers that make speedsters fun ("I run to Norway to get some Lutefisk, then I come back and stuff it in the villain's trousers!"). For more powerful speedsters, pump up the VPP.

 

Enter the Speed Zone, from Ultimate Speedster, is a fully genre appropriate but potentially game breaking variation on extra-dimensional movement, perfect for speedsters and time stoppers who "live their lives in an endless gallery of statues". It really can give you the Flash on 350 points, or something close to him. Only recommended if you keep very tight control over character creation.

[TheQuestionMan]

Re: Speedsters:

 

I have a Speedster in my Champions of Vancouver Campaign called Blitz. His specialty is Move Bys with a Club/Weapon of Opportunity/etc... .

 

My favourite was him battling his nemesis Speed Demon. They did Passing Strikes at eachother and missed. They did Move Bys and Missed. Finally Speed Demon grabs a STOP sign and charges dragging it along the ground and sending up a shower of sparks as he sharpens the edge. Blitz dodges and then turns around and does a Passing Take Away.

 

Speed Demon turns and Charges Bitz again. This time Blitz hits him with the stop sign. The Impact leave an impression in the sign of Speed Demons face. He was of coarse STOPPED!!!

 

That street sign now hangs in the teams base.

 

 

 

LOL

 

QM

 

P.S.: Tom & Jerry RULESZ!

[Doc Samson]

Re: Speedsters:

 

I've run (and GM-ed for) a number of speedster characters in the past. I had to kind of creep up on the challenge of building a speedy character.

 

My first build was a character with a Dex of 50 and speed 12. Of course, since we were limited to 250 points, that left only 70 points for everything else. Once I started playing this guy, I realized that SPD 12 and REC 5 means that Captain Zippy turns into Captain Gasping-For-Breath very quickly.

 

I just bought Star Hero this month. Champions is next. I don't own Ultimate Speedster (US). If you have US, why should (or shouldn't) I buy it before I get Champions?

 

Some of you are very experienced with this sort of thing. How do YOU create speedsters?

 

 

Fisrt off, the Ulimate series is great if you are looking for new character ideas. I would get it US first if character creation is your goal, however, if you are currently campaign building then Champions may be more useful.

 

As far as speedsters go, I have played a few. I try not to be pushed into the "Flash" mold as many other archtypes can also be considered speedsters. Take the Rhino for instance, sure he looks and smells like a Brick, but is he doing more damage with his strength or running move throughs? It can be hard to seperate which is more integral to the character. Another example is Nightcrawler. He does damage with simple punches and kicks, but all his "tricks" come from his teleportation movement power. Is this really so different than the Flash?

 

My best advice for Speedster building is the same advice I give for every other character type, decide what type of concept you want to play then build the powers around it. There are alot of great speedster concepts to be played that don't have anything to do with running! I hope that helps.

[Kevin Schultz]

Re: Speedsters:

 

Indeed - although it's an archtype I haven't really touched yet, my current character (Icon) is basically a flying brick/speedster; most of her attacks are movement-based, and a good chunk of her "tricks" (10 point cosmic VPP) deal with either movement or manipulating her energy aura.

 

Also note that the Hulk, while he has his PhD in Brick, also has a minor in Speedster; it's just that his movement power is Leaping, rather than Running. A good portion of Spiderman's attacks are movement-based; but he swings or leaps. And, as mentioned, Nightcrawler's tricks are teleportation-based. Cannonball is probably the definitive Flight-based speedster, but his real power is invunerability (and immortality, last time I checked.) Which is to say being a speedster is really a continum, based on how many points you choose to invest in speedster-based powers. Any hero that has more than 10 points invested in a travel power will probably have at least one or two "tricks" using that power (at the least using a Move-Through or Move-By); the more points you spend on it, the more likely you are to use it.

[Shaft]

Re: Speedsters:

 

My group generally plays games in which all players have SPD 4 (most villains have the same SPD, though the occasional master villain might have SPD 5; mooks are usually SPD 2 or 3). The players don't mind since they can buy the various rapid attack, autofire and/or two weapon skills with the points they would otherwise be spending on SPD.

 

In our four colour game, speedsters tend to be made at SPD 8 giving a nice ratio. The characters really feel like speedsters since they can literally do twice as many actions as the rest of the party in the same time. It's still balanced since they tend to spend their points on powers instead of the combat skills that squeeze more attacks out of a single action.

[SSgt Baloo]

Re: Speedsters:

 

Hey, this is all great stuff! Keep it up!

 

Now I've read this far, I recall a couple characters (some not mine) who also had "speedster" abilities.

 

1. One guy was able to turn himself into electromagnetic energy and teleport great distances along any conductor. He had to be touching the conductor at the start and finish points of his teleport, but if he was standing on railroad tracks, f'rinstance, he could teleport any distance along them. Likewise, if he was talking to someone on the telephone, he could teleport to the other phone's location if it was within range.
    
   
2. Another character had a speed of eight and could teleport anywhere he could otherwise walk, swim, jump, or climb to. The special effect was that he moved so quickly you could barely see him.
    
   
3. The last one was a character I made. He was a mutant who looked like a Humanoid tiger. Built to be an anti-kzin, Bob Tiger was everything kzin were not, except for the ability to kick [biblical beast of burden] and take names. With SPD 6 and 12" of running, he was capable of running at just short of 55 miles per hour.
   

[TheRavenIs]

Re: Speedsters:

 

I have a C that is a full time Brick and also a Speedster. He is just now learning the speed powers. Mostly I see speedsters as a way of thinking than actual powers.

[Narratio]

Re: Speedsters:

 

I agree with TRI, "speedster" is more of a way of acting or behaving than pure power. As both Doc Samson and Kevin Schultz say, there's more than the 'Flash' definition of speedster. Kevin comments on the Hulk, Cannonball etc. I'd add all those lightning fast reflex martial artists, who always seem to have a half phase held (and skills dumped into reflexes) so that they ALWAYS go first on any phase they want.

 

SPD 12 is not the way to go. SPD5 or 6 with a lot of useful "gotcha' reflexes will be far more effective.

[Tom]

Re: Speedsters:

 

One thing I do is differentiate between 'speedster' and 'hyper-reflex' characters which are probably more accurately described as belonging to other archtypes. My wife's char in my FtF game is what I'd consider a hyper-reflex Brick/EBer. Yeah, she's 33 DEX/8 SPD -- but it's her energy projection abilities which really define the char...

 

I consider a char a speedster if 'moving fast' is the defining shtick. I currently have two I'm playing in games at Hero Central. One is a 'Flash'-type called Speedzone (I don't have Ultimate Speedster btw, and I think I started the char before it came out) in 'Of Masks and Metahumans'. He's 30 DEX/8 SPD, and specializes in high speed move-bys. He also frequently drives the GM a little crazy with one of his 'flavor' powers: Nothing but a Blur -- Bright Fringe Invisibility linked to his running. (I was trying for that 'you see nothing but a blur of color and then he's gone' effect you sometimes see on the cartoons).

 

The other is more of a movement based speedster named Vector in 'Children of the Sun'. He's 26 DEX/6 SPD -- but can go from 0 to Mach 1+ in one hex non-combat and can do a very convincing imitation of an insane pinball in combat (20" Flight, No Turn Mode, Combat Accel/Decel).

[Robyn]

Re: Speedsters:

 

He also frequently drives the GM a little crazy with one of his 'flavor' powers: Nothing but a Blur -- Bright Fringe Invisibility linked to his running. (I was trying for that 'you see nothing but a blur of color and then he's gone' effect you sometimes see on the cartoons).

 

I have an old power idea that was meant to trick enemies into thinking they could stop the speedster:

 

Teleport, not with "must pass through intervening space", Linked to Images (that exact blur).

[薔薇語]

Re: Speedsters:

 

In the champions game I play in. I have a speedster like night-crawler. Everyone in the group is a speedster plus though. One has regen out the ass and just doesn't die. Other is a mini brick that throws himself at people but tires little to quickly. I preferred a Hero that just never wore out. Although my end isn't as great as everyone else's, I have no end on my teleportation trix and also a recovery of 20. Everyone but me has a 30 dex and I had a 29. But I was speed 8 to everyone else 6. So the concept was that while "slower in action to the others" I didn't ware out like the others. So I could be ok in a sustained encounter. Which helps out immensely while I distract enemies in order to buy time for the mini-brick to clean them up.

[Trebuchet]

Re: Speedsters:

 

In our campaign we define "speedster" as a character who uses movement as the primary ingredient of both offense and defense. Move By/Through, Passing Strike, etc. for offense; Flying Dodge, pure distance, etc., as defense. They need room to maneuver and build up speed for both attack and evasion.

 

So my PC Zl'f, who closes and fights HtH, we don't consider a speedster but rather a fast martial artist even with her SPD 9, 43 DEX, and 30" of Running. The NPC heroine Peregrine OTOH, with (IIRC) SPD 8, DEX 38, 28" Flight, and Passing Strike, we (including her designer, Blackjack) consider a speedster. As Blackjack observes "the difference is if you lock Zl'f in a small room she's just as effective; whereas Peregrine is hosed." We acknowledge that this isn't the same as the "official" definition of speedster. It's more a matter of play style and specific build. Technically there's nothing preventing me from buying Zl'f Passing Strike/Throw and playing her as a speedster except philosophy. I'd probably categorize her as a "quasi-speedster" since she has so many of the other attributes commonly given for speedsters

[Killer Shrike]

Re: Speedsters:

 

Hype

Turbofist

Legend

Richochet

Johnny Tick-Tock

Brown Recluse

Breakneck

[SSgt Baloo]

Re: Speedsters:

 

Hype

Turbofist

Legend

Richochet

Johnny Tick-Tock

Brown Recluse

Breakneck

 

Excellent character concepts!

 

Would you be so kind as to describe how ETSZ works? (I'm convinced. I really have to get my mitts on the Ultimate Speedster.)

[Killer Shrike]

Re: Speedsters:

 

Excellent character concepts!

 

Would you be so kind as to describe how ETSZ works? (I'm convinced. I really have to get my mitts on the Ultimate Speedster.)

 

Thanx, and sorry, but that would violate Hero Games IP -- the Speed Zone is one of the main draws of the Ultimate Speedster.

 

Personally, I think its the best Ultimate after The Ultimate Martial Artist and The Ultimate Vehicle, and well worth picking up if you have any interest in speedster characters.

[SSgt Baloo]

Re: Speedsters:

 

Thanx' date=' and sorry, but that would violate Hero Games IP -- the Speed Zone is one of the main draws of the Ultimate Speedster.[/quote']

 

*Grumble-grumble*

Alright already, I'll shut up about it. If it's "classified" to all who haven't got the book I can live with that.

 

Personally, I think its the best Ultimate after The Ultimate Martial Artist and The Ultimate Vehicle, and well worth picking up if you have any interest in speedster characters.

 

Okay! Okay! I'll buy the @#$% thing! (Sheesh! what a sales pitch!)

[Robyn]

Re: Speedsters:

 

Thanx' date=' and sorry, but that would violate Hero Games IP -- the Speed Zone is one of the main draws of the Ultimate Speedster.[/quote']

 

I don't have The Ultimate Mentalist, but I have managed to acquire a rough idea of how the Speed Zone works - by reading the threads complaining about it

[Sketchpad]

Re: Speedsters:

 

I don't have The Ultimate Mentalist' date=' but I have managed to acquire a rough idea of how the Speed Zone works - by reading the threads complaining about it [/quote']

 

But do you have the Ultimate Speedster?

[TheRavenIs]

Re: Speedsters:

 

Playing a true speedster I have learned takes a very different skill set than say an EBer. I just got started in playing them again. One of my first C's I even did was called Firebird. He had a flame aura/force field and ran/flew very fast for a 250 C.

 

Ahh the simpler days.

[casualplayer]

Re: Speedsters:

 

*Grumble-grumble*

Alright already, I'll shut up about it. If it's "classified" to all who haven't got the book I can live with that.

 

Okay! Okay! I'll buy the @#$% thing! (Sheesh! what a sales pitch!)

 

Y'know, it makes me crazy. Many a board person whose opinion I greatly respect (like, say, Killer Shrike) really like TUS, and I own it and I've read it cover to cover and all I get is the cold, sick feeling of games spiralling into the abyss. Has no one broke a game wide open with Enter the Speed Zone yet? It is the most broken thing I have ever seen come packaged with a HERO logo on it.

 

SSgt Baloo, in essence ETSZ is a tweaked version of ExtraDimensional Travel while making it cheap to reach back across the dimensions and thump the slow. It specifically says in the description that it would be cost prohibitive for a character to have to buy Transdimensional for all their powers so, in the most colossal of handwaives, they say speedsters only have to buy the ability to perceive across the dimensional wall between Speed Zone and NormalWorld and then they can feel free to reach out and touch all the 0 DCV slowpokes they want. If I'm somehow missing something about IP protection, this power has been described many times in many threads here.

 

On the bright side, I really, really enjoyed the GM's section and most of the NPC character write-ups. The updated Cheshire Cat and Kinetik were good fun. There's also a weird one that is the Mexican illegitimate offspring of Puck and Batroc, but he made me smile.

 

I don't know. Oddhat says ETSZ can work if you keep a tight rein on character construction and he can make minor dieties on 350 pts without breaking a sweat. Maybe I'm just a moaning old bastard.

[Robyn]

Re: Speedsters:

 

But do you have the Ultimate Speedster?

 

I don't have either.

Among other things I don't have, it appears we can now include "faintest idea of where ETSZ is described"

[assault]

Re: Speedsters:

 

My biggest problem with speedsters is at the lower end. They tend to suck up the points pretty hugely, especially if you want them to have a range of neat tricks.

 

It's easy enough to build them as regular "three power" characters:

(1) offensive power

(2) defensive power

(3) movement power

 

You just need to balance them towards the third power more than most. Unfortunately, the result tends to be rather bland if you are looking for a Flash/Johnny Quick type character. It's less of a problem if you are trying to build Nightcrawler, although even there you tend to lose a lot of the "neat but non-essential" stuff.

 

Basically, a lot of characters really suck at less than 350 points.

[Robyn]

Re: Speedsters:

 

It's easy enough to build them as regular "three power" characters:

(1) offensive power

(2) defensive power

(3) movement power

 

So . . . build these three with Multiform?