Who are the greatest (?) super villains?

[Kid Chaos]

Originally posted by D-Man

First: Pulp Villians

 

Second: Comic Villians

 

Lex Luthor comes in at the top of my list. Who else can take on superman and have such consistent results? Whats more, he's the only villian I know to sustain a victory over a long period of time. He's the President of the United States! He's a brilliant scientist and tactitian who has leadership abilities. He's pushed the combined might of the JLA with his brain more than once. What's more: he's bald. Telley Savales never looked so good.

 

This reminds me of the superman story line where Lex teams up with Supes to stop aliens from taking over the planet. Supes initial reaction and Lex's response were classic.

 

Superman: "My god this is incredible, how did you discover this?"

 

Lex: "What do you think I've been doing all these years."

 

qoutes are not exact but you get the idea. imo that's what makes Lex a truly classic and incredible villian

[starblaze]

Doom is very cool. He has a alot of class and style as well as a code of honor rarely seen in today's villians, although in the latest FF story he has kind of put his honor aside.

 

Thanos is pretty cool as well, although Darksied has some coolness Thanos has the whole character flaw of not feeling deserving of his goal to please death the keeps him from just destroying everything.

[Agent X]

I have to say Darkseid is much cooler than Thanos. His background, supporting cast, demeanor all impress me much more than Thanos.

[SuperPheemy]

Doom easily topps the list. I remember him coming to New York to save a hero from a fatal disease that not even Reed Richards was able to cure. After saving the stricken hero, Doom was asked why. "Because it was something Richards could not do" was his answer.

[Catacomb]

While Darkseid preceeded Thanos by about three years I think this link will help clear up why I think he is MUCH cooler than Omega boy...http://thanos.crowfans.com/TvsD.html

[Agent X]

Originally posted by Catacomb

While Darkseid preceeded Thanos by about three years I think this link will help clear up why I think he is MUCH cooler than Omega boy...http://thanos.crowfans.com/TvsD.html

The guy doesn't seem to know much about the Fourth World and engages in a lot of wishful speculation about how they match up. Darkseid better compares to Zeus or Odin than does Thanos. Thanos is the petulant son of the patriarch of the Eternals lite of Titan. Darkseid is the chief "god" of the evil New Gods born to fill the vacuum left by the death of the Old Gods - which Kirby envisioned as the Graeco-Roman Pantheon (that would be a continuity problem with Wonder Woman and all). I got the distinct impression after reading stories concerning Darkseid and Superman that this was on cat who was tougher than Supes. Darkseid is mighty and is seeking the Anti-Life Equation. Thanos had to search all round the universe for technology that doesn't seem anymore advanced than what Darkseid has at home.

 

But that's not the real issue. There are a few villains who are defined to be more powerful than either of them. Darkseid is cooler because of his background, his supporting cast, the fact that he's a "grown up" villain who doesn't have to throw fits. Thanos is scary but he comes off a bit juvenile in his behavior at times.

[Catacomb]

The truly scary thing about Thanos though is his intellect. I have an issue of MCP that occurs around the time of the Infinity Gauntlet when Thanos had gone 'good' where he challenged Reed Richards to a game of Chess. They met in some alternate universe and set up a huge board that was moved by thought...Thanos won in 7 moves. That is awesome, and scary. Yes Thanos throws fits, and that is precisely what makes him cool. He has evolved beyond the emotionless Darkseid clone that he once was to become a villian in a class by himself. Subsequently Darkseid has stayed little more than a Doom wannabe, only more powerful physically with no chance in the realm of intellegence. DON'T think that this is an attack on the intellect of Darkseid, it's not, because the guy is a genius, but he's just not on that level. Again I think Darkseid is nifty, and on the cosmic level a threat the likes of which is unparalleled in the DC universe, but he is constrained by rules that Thanos would be more than willing to toss aside if it suited him.

[bwdemon]

The government! Nobody can mess with supers like a Senator with a cause. Plus, you've got all the various conspiracy angles, paranoia over superpowers, a massive military, and other goodies that make any government a solid choice.

[JmOz]

Originally posted by Agent X

The guy doesn't seem to know much about the Fourth World and engages in a lot of wishful speculation about how they match up. Darkseid better compares to Zeus or Odin than does Thanos. Thanos is the petulant son of the patriarch of the Eternals lite of Titan. Darkseid is the chief "god" of the evil New Gods born to fill the vacuum left by the death of the Old Gods - which Kirby envisioned as the Graeco-Roman Pantheon (that would be a continuity problem with Wonder Woman and all). I got the distinct impression after reading stories concerning Darkseid and Superman that this was on cat who was tougher than Supes. Darkseid is mighty and is seeking the Anti-Life Equation. Thanos had to search all round the universe for technology that doesn't seem anymore advanced than what Darkseid has at home.

 

But that's not the real issue. There are a few villains who are defined to be more powerful than either of them. Darkseid is cooler because of his background, his supporting cast, the fact that he's a "grown up" villain who doesn't have to throw fits. Thanos is scary but he comes off a bit juvenile in his behavior at times.

 

Funny, everything i heard about the 4th world was that the "Old Gods" were the Norse, not Greek/Roman

[Agent X]

Originally posted by Catacomb

The truly scary thing about Thanos though is his intellect. I have an issue of MCP that occurs around the time of the Infinity Gauntlet when Thanos had gone 'good' where he challenged Reed Richards to a game of Chess. They met in some alternate universe and set up a huge board that was moved by thought...Thanos won in 7 moves. That is awesome, and scary. Yes Thanos throws fits, and that is precisely what makes him cool. He has evolved beyond the emotionless Darkseid clone that he once was to become a villian in a class by himself. Subsequently Darkseid has stayed little more than a Doom wannabe, only more powerful physically with no chance in the realm of intellegence. DON'T think that this is an attack on the intellect of Darkseid, it's not, because the guy is a genius, but he's just not on that level. Again I think Darkseid is nifty, and on the cosmic level a threat the likes of which is unparalleled in the DC universe, but he is constrained by rules that Thanos would be more than willing to toss aside if it suited him.

No, Darkseid is portrayed as well beyond genius level of intelligence. I always got the impression that he had other issues he was dealing with, that he was indeed playing a cosmic chess game and the battle portrayed in any given story. Not only is Darkseid arrogant, he is also distracted by the sheer scale that he is operating at. I don't think Darkseid is constrained by rules. I think he knows himself and has personally made the rules that make him so successful.

 

This is just a matter of taste. If you like Thanos better, that's cool, but if you want to make actual comparisons with Darkseid I'm gonna have to give my 2 cents too.

[Agent X]

Originally posted by JmOz

Funny, everything i heard about the 4th world was that the "Old Gods" were the Norse, not Greek/Roman

I may have caught some DC "revisionism" from my source or vice versa. I read this in some sort of narrative of DC history put out by DC. That doesn't mean it was "pure Kirby."

[TheEmerged]

First, let me join in on the Doom Fanboy list

 

Second, let me add 2 names I'm really surprised haven't appeared on the list yet.

 

First, Ozymandius from Watchmen is in my opinion second only to Doom as the greatest villain of comic history. We're talking about someone who performed the ultimate act of villainy -- world peace.

 

Second, my good friend the Taskmaster. I understand there's someone calling himself this name right now that's pretty interesting in his own right, but the original forever stands out in my mind. A plain and simple motivation that numerous writers continue to get wrong (he is NOT a mercenary! That would be too much work) and someone who has the good sense to RUN, even after beating Captain America and Iron Man! There were aspects of the miniseries I liked but overall it was "some other guy".

[Nightshade]

Venom

 

Venom was just too nasty. He had a great element to him, too: He truly believes he is the good guy. He's the hero. Spiderman was the villain. That was just great.

 

I also think that the Master, especially the Roger Delgado Master from Dr. Who was very well done. When you heard that laugh *shiver*

 

Nightshade

[Catacomb]

Originally posted by Agent X

No, Darkseid is portrayed as well beyond genius level of intelligence. I always got the impression that he had other issues he was dealing with, that he was indeed playing a cosmic chess game and the battle portrayed in any given story. Not only is Darkseid arrogant, he is also distracted by the sheer scale that he is operating at. I don't think Darkseid is constrained by rules. I think he knows himself and has personally made the rules that make him so successful.

 

This is just a matter of taste. If you like Thanos better, that's cool, but if you want to make actual comparisons with Darkseid I'm gonna have to give my 2 cents too.

 

You are sooooooo wrong here. Darkseid is not on that intelligence level. Hell, Manhunter has proven to be his intellectual better on more than one occasion. Chalk it up to arrogance if you want, but even Supes has outsmarted him more than once. Darkseid is bad, cool, and whatever...even a genius as I've said, but he is just not on a cosmic intelligence level. Does he have a big ballfield to play in? Yup, but he's not the smartest guy on it. Thanos is the smartest player in his game though. It's not the arrogance of Thanos that causes his losses...it's his insanity.

[ZootSoot]

Tough oe, so many villains are just annoyingly stupid (andf I include Luthor and Doom in that category) and often have as a super power (which many recent heroes also have had) the ability to kick-@ss without any rationale. So here goes:

 

Joker.

Taskmaster, the guy who has figured out how to use his powers usefully.

Kingpin, he actually looks like he makes at profit at his crimes.

The Ringmaster, though I have trouble buying his Circus of Crime as an efficient criminal organization, this guy really has some brass ones.

The Spot, comes so close to having a unique power set that I have to admire him, horribly underutilized.

Destine of the Brother of Evil Mutants, a female villain who is not only not knockout and a kick-@ss martial artist, but is neither. Huzzah!

The Scorpion, just love his origin and his original look.

The Rhino. They don't get any more straightforward.

J. Jonah Jameson, neither superpowered nor megalomaniacal, he is an ethical man who is Spiderman's real arch-nemesis despite that fact.

[Kevin Scrivner]

Another vote for Fu Manchu, the great-granddaddy of all supervillains! Often imitated, never equalled, never defeated.

 

Count Fosco, from "The Woman in White." Master spy, hypnotist, experimental chemist. Classy and scary.

 

Jadis of Charn, the White Witch. So arrogant she's funny and she's too proud to realize it. Resourceful even when robbed of her powers in our dimension.

 

I'm more into the intimate villains. Sure Thanos wants to blow away your planet but it's nothing personal. Evil on a smaller scale is scarier to me. Sauron covets the Earth but Gollum is the one likely to crawl through your open window on a hot summer night. With that in mind,

 

Doctor Octopus! A mad scientist with a unique gimmick and the ability to match Spider-Man quip for quip. And he nearly married Aunt May!

 

The Penuin, from Batman the Animated Series but also the Burgess Meredith version. Sure he's low-powered and a little silly but he's also charming and clever. You never know what he's going to stuff in one of those umbrellas next.

 

The Hobgoblin. He stole the Green Goblin's schtick but it took us months to find out his identity -- and it kept changing! The greatest identity guessing game since Fantomas. Well, maybe not. But it was still fun.

 

Oh, and Gollum. I like the CGI version in "Two Towers" but the character begs to be played by Peter Lorre.

 

Megavolt from "Darkwing Duck." He was upstaged by Negaduck but Megavolt had that gleeful love of crime for its own sake that I find appealing.

[Doug McCrae]

Originally posted by Ranxerox

Uhh Thirdbase, by villian do you mean bad guy or bad person? Because no one has mentioned any chicks. Some of them are worth mentioning if bad person is what you meant.

On the whole female characters don't work that well as villains. IMO the only female villains worth mentioning are Catwoman and Elektra, who are both of a type - alternating between opponent and lover for the hero.

 

Mind you, the Femme Fatale is also good. "She lures men into her web of sin!" But this is a similar sort of idea to the opponent/lover. There's a duality there too but it's evil/seductive.

 

I don't think female uber-baddies work at all, even in our modern era of ass kicking heroines like Buffy and Tomb Raider. A female Kingpin, Dr. Doom or Darkseid just wouldn't fly.

 

I'm rather distressed by the Champions 5th Ed move to make some of the uber-villains female, such as Istvatha V'han (although she does have a great name). It may be motivated by the desire to try something new but IMO these are flawed efforts at character design.

[Agent X]

Originally posted by Catacomb

You are sooooooo wrong here. Darkseid is not on that intelligence level. Hell, Manhunter has proven to be his intellectual better on more than one occasion. Chalk it up to arrogance if you want, but even Supes has outsmarted him more than once. Darkseid is bad, cool, and whatever...even a genius as I've said, but he is just not on a cosmic intelligence level. Does he have a big ballfield to play in? Yup, but he's not the smartest guy on it. Thanos is the smartest player in his game though. It's not the arrogance of Thanos that causes his losses...it's his insanity.

I'm afraid I don't read much of the late stuff. Your examples won't have much impact on me. I chalk it up to bad writing. Also, I read the later Thanos stuff and thought they were ham-handed.

[Agent X]

Originally posted by Doug McCrae

On the whole I don't think female characters work that well as villains. IMO the only female villains worth mentioning are Catwoman and Elektra, who are both of a type - alternating between opponent and lover for the hero.

 

The Femme Fatale type is also good. "She lures men into her web of sin!" This is a similar sort of idea to the opponent/lover, I think. There's a duality there too but it's evil/seductive.

 

I don't think female uber-baddies work at all, even in our modern era of ass kicking heroines like Buffy and Tomb Raider. A female Kingpin, Dr. Doom or Darkseid just wouldn't fly.

 

I'm rather distressed by the Champions 5th Ed move to make some of the uber-villains female, such as Istvatha V'han (although she does have a great name).

You don't think Killer Frost works as a villain!?

[Doug McCrae]

Originally posted by Agent X

You don't think Killer Frost works as a villain!?

I like Killer Frost, I think she's a good character. I'd be happy to use an analogue of her in one of my games. But she's too one-dimensional to ever count as one of the all-time great villains.

 

Perhaps I'm letting my personal liking for the characters cloud my judgement here, but I'd add Raven and Moondragon to the list of best female villains. Though both (especially Raven) are arguably heroes rather than villains. Each of them has Killer Frost's 'cool demeanour' but they have a lot more depth than the ice maiden.

[Agent X]

Originally posted by Doug McCrae

I like Killer Frost, I think she's a good character. I'd be happy to use an analogue of her in one of my games. But she's too one-dimensional to ever count as one of the all-time great villains.

 

Perhaps I'm letting my personal liking for the characters cloud my judgement here, but I'd add Raven and Moondragon to the list of best female villains. Though both (especially Raven) are arguably heroes rather than villains. Each of them has Killer Frost's 'cool demeanour' but they have a lot more depth than the ice maiden.

She may lack depth but Killer Frost makes up for it in style.

[Doug McCrae]

So far, I make the totals (including only those characters that got more than one vote):

 

Dr. Doom: 14

The Joker: 7

Darkseid: 6

Ras Al-Ghul: 4

Lex Luthor: 3

Fu Manchu: 3

Magneto: 3

The Fury: 3

Thanos: 3

Kingpin: 3

Taskmaster: 2

Ozymandias: 2

The Master (from Dr. Who): 2

Harley Quinn: 2

Bane: 2

Juggernaut: 2

Apocalypse: 2

Venom: 2

The Incredible Hulk: 2

Xanatos (from Gargoyles): 2

 

 

I guess Fu Manchu, The Master and Xanatos deserve extra credit for achieving multiple votes on a poll for 'greatest comic book villains' when they are not primarily comic book characters.

[don]

Let's see, my choices for villains:

Of those already selected, Dr. Doom definitely makes it. Magneto is very cool, especially when his relationship with Prof. X is involved in the story. Personally, I'm a big fan of Dr. Octopus, and view him as the main arch-enemy of Spider-Man (as opposed to JJJ, who is without question, Spidey's main nemesis). I mean, really, a fat guy who makes Spidey afraid? That's cool. The Master is an absolute must, although I am equally enamored of Anthony Ainley as I am of Roger Delgado. And Fu Manchu can't be left out, and he did make it into comics, thanks to Shang-Chi.

 

Now, my own selections: I really like Mordath, the main villain (a lich, as far as I'm concerned) from Sojourn (by Crossgen). Wicked, casually cool, determined, and when his main officer fails to capture the heroine because of Mordath's own failure to size her up as a real threat...the officer offers his life up to Mordath, who pardons him, since it was Mordath's own fault, authorizes the officer to launch a full-scale assault on the heroine, and sums it up with "I'm not in the habit of giving second chances. Don't make me regret it."

 

Also on my list: Mordru (both as Legion villain, and now JSA heavy-weight bad guy), Deathstroke the Terminator (from Teen Titans) and since some mention of the Big G was brought up, how about his most succesful enemy, King Ghidora (really, gigantic, monstrous force of nature with three heads AND destroys planets).

 

My offerings, anyway.

 

Don

[Dog Soldier]

My favorite villain is Iron Mans Sentient Armor. Oddly enough I've never like Doom, he just annoys me.

[TheEmerged]

RE: Mordath. Hmm, I'm a big fan of Crossgen in general and Sojourn in particular -- but I'd have to say I'm a bigger fan of Bohr (the underling in the incident you describe) than Mordath. While that *was* a pretty cool incident, it doesn't really make up for the "I'm dead and I'm complaining about it" stuff the rest of the time.