SSgt Baloo Posted January 30, 2007 Report Share Posted January 30, 2007 I've always enjoyed having one or more giant characters (mostly NPCs) in my campaigns, where appropriate. Unless I misread 5ER, they discourage you from using "Growth, Zero END, Always On" to represent a character who is inherently huge. Instead, you should buy all the different "bits" separately. It would have been helpful if they had provided a checklist or example that showed how. So... What would Your build-a-giant-character checklist look like? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vestnik Posted January 30, 2007 Report Share Posted January 30, 2007 Re: Building a Giant: the Checklist There's a list of packages in the Bestiary for animals of large to monstrous size, if that helps. I think there might be something in the Ultimate Brick as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ghost-angel Posted January 30, 2007 Report Share Posted January 30, 2007 Re: Building a Giant: the Checklist Size Templates: Hero System Bestiary p26-27 Fifth Ed. Revised p574-575 The Ultimate Brick p38-39 checklists are provided actually. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gojira Posted January 30, 2007 Report Share Posted January 30, 2007 Re: Building a Giant: the Checklist 1. Eat more Cheesy Poofs. 2. Bulk up with Weight Gain 4000. 3. Try to find a mad scientist or something. 4. Practice rampaging for when I get bigger. 5. Get some looser clothing, rampaging nekid sucks. 6. Eat some more Cheesy Poofs. 7. Build a model of downtown with Legos and practice rampaging more. 8. Put an add in the paper for wanting to join a villain group. 9. Check local maps for a desolate area or wilderness where it'll be easy to hide out. 10. Eat more Cheesy Poofs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vestnik Posted January 30, 2007 Report Share Posted January 30, 2007 Re: Building a Giant: the Checklist 1. Eat more Cheesy Poofs. 2. Bulk up with Weight Gain 4000. 3. Try to find a mad scientist or something. 4. Practice rampaging for when I get bigger. 5. Get some looser clothing, rampaging nekid sucks. 6. Eat some more Cheesy Poofs. 7. Build a model of downtown with Legos and practice rampaging more. 8. Put an add in the paper for wanting to join a villain group. 9. Check local maps for a desolate area or wilderness where it'll be easy to hide out. 10. Eat more Cheesy Poofs. What a cool superhero origin! + Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Super Squirrel Posted January 30, 2007 Report Share Posted January 30, 2007 Re: Building a Giant: the Checklist Physical Limitation (2 to 25 pts depending on size) BODY (that matches growth bonus) STR (that matches growth bonus) Knockback Resistance (that matches growth bonus) Reach (that matches growth bonus) The actual checklists are easier to work with and have been referenced above. You also, depending on concept, might want to add a naked power advantage for Area Effect (One Hex) to all hand-to-hand attacks depending on character size and concept. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ghost-angel Posted January 31, 2007 Report Share Posted January 31, 2007 Re: Building a Giant: the Checklist 1. Eat more Cheesy Poofs. 2. Bulk up with Weight Gain 4000. 3. Try to find a mad scientist or something. 4. Practice rampaging for when I get bigger. 5. Get some looser clothing, rampaging nekid sucks. 6. Eat some more Cheesy Poofs. 7. Build a model of downtown with Legos and practice rampaging more. 8. Put an add in the paper for wanting to join a villain group. 9. Check local maps for a desolate area or wilderness where it'll be easy to hide out. 10. Eat more Cheesy Poofs. So repped. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SSgt Baloo Posted January 31, 2007 Author Report Share Posted January 31, 2007 Re: Building a Giant: the Checklist Size Templates: Hero System Bestiary p26-27 Fifth Ed. Revised p574-575 The Ultimate Brick p38-39 checklists are provided actually. [Homer Simpson] Doh!! [/Homer Simpson] It still sez nothing about area effects for hands & feet, though. I suppose I could just measure my own and extrapolate. Does anyone know of a website that lists biometrics of this sort (hand/foot length & width)? gojira: Thanks! I'll get right on it. If my local store doesn't stock Cheezy Poofs® can I substitute Cheetos™ instead? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Narratio Posted January 31, 2007 Report Share Posted January 31, 2007 Re: Building a Giant: the Checklist Remember that, with giants, almost every single action can be an accidental "move through" attack. Rubbish bins and small signs along with loose pavement or gravelled pathways tend go go wizzing around with shrapnel like effects. Most people don't bother with those, but, when I'm feeling really, really mean and the testosterone is rising.... You should try it. Add it to the character sheet... go on, just be evil. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lucius Posted January 31, 2007 Report Share Posted January 31, 2007 Re: Building a Giant: the Checklist Physical Limitation (2 to 25 pts depending on size) BODY (that matches growth bonus) STR (that matches growth bonus) Knockback Resistance (that matches growth bonus) Reach (that matches growth bonus) The actual checklists are easier to work with and have been referenced above..... (that matches growth bonus) (that matches growth bonus) (that matches growth bonus) (that matches growth bonus) Or you could do something even easier; use Growth, Persistant, and if necessary Always On. I never knew it to hurt anyone's game before the current regime, nor any game since in which people are willing to shrug at and ignore a rule that doesn't seem to do much but complicate the game unnecessarily. But if you want to be "book legal" other people have already pointed out where the checklists are. Lucius Alexander and a growing palindromedary Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Long Posted January 31, 2007 Report Share Posted January 31, 2007 Re: Building a Giant: the Checklist It still sez nothing about area effects for hands & feet, though. It has absolutely no game effect. If you want a character to be able to affect an area with his hands or feet, you have to buy Area Of Effect for his STR as a naked Advantage -- that's way too useful a power to receive "for free," whether from using a Size Template or Growth. You can find example powers on a bunch of published characters (such as Gargantua in CKC) or in the sample powers sections of UB, UMM, and similar books. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vestnik Posted January 31, 2007 Report Share Posted January 31, 2007 Re: Building a Giant: the Checklist Or you could do something even easier; use Growth, Persistant, and if necessary Always On. I never knew it to hurt anyone's game before the current regime, nor any game since in which people are willing to shrug at and ignore a rule that doesn't seem to do much but complicate the game unnecessarily. I really don't understand why that was gotten rid of... I find building Growth characters to be prohibitively expensive under the new rules. EDIT: I mean always grown characters, of course. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Super Squirrel Posted January 31, 2007 Report Share Posted January 31, 2007 Re: Building a Giant: the Checklist I really don't understand why that was gotten rid of... I find building Growth characters to be prohibitively expensive under the new rules. EDIT: I mean always grown characters, of course. It is because they are easier to build and less complicated on paper. I mean, if you wanted to build a Paper Giant it would be Growth, Always On and then selling STR and Knockback Resistance back. And even then the powers aren't naturally inherent. On the sheet, you write your characters base STR and then the STR when you add in the Growth. Repeat for BODY. The Physical Limitation makes it your natural state as well. So you don't have to worry about a Dispel or Drain taking away all of your bonuses at once and taking away your size. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hugh Neilson Posted January 31, 2007 Report Share Posted January 31, 2007 Re: Building a Giant: the Checklist I really don't understand why that was gotten rid of... I find building Growth characters to be prohibitively expensive under the new rules. EDIT: I mean always grown characters, of course. 5 levels Growth, 0 END, Persistent, Always On, Inherent costs 50 x 2.25/1.5 = 75 points. [Don't forget Inherent - that size is a natural state, so it shouldn't be Suppressed, right?] I don't have my books with me - what's the bonus for 1 level of Growth? +5 STR no Figured, +5 BOD and some Reach, correct? Price it out. Buy your STR normally and sell back the extra STUN for an added cost benefit and keep the extra REC and PD. COST: 25 - 12 = 13 Buy your BOD and sell back the extra STUN: Cost 10 - 5 = 5 So far, I see all of 18 points spent. Stretching costs 5 per 1", with 0 END, persistent, inherent making that 25 points for +5" 56 points instead. It has no damage adder (-1/4? -1/2?) and no non-combat multiplier (-1/4), so that drops the cost to 37 at most. -5" Knockback resistance adds another 15 points. Make it Inherent and that's 19 points. That's 74 points in total, and you offset some of that with a physical limitation for your unusual size. What have I missed that makes Growth, Always On such a superior deal? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vestnik Posted January 31, 2007 Report Share Posted January 31, 2007 Re: Building a Giant: the Checklist 5 levels Growth' date=' 0 END, Persistent, Always On, Inherent costs 50 x 2.25/1.5 = 75 points. [Don't forget Inherent - that size is a natural state, so it shouldn't be Suppressed, right?'] I don't have my books with me - what's the bonus for 1 level of Growth? +5 STR no Figured, +5 BOD and some Reach, correct? Price it out. Buy your STR normally and sell back the extra STUN for an added cost benefit and keep the extra REC and PD. COST: 25 - 12 = 13 Buy your BOD and sell back the extra STUN: Cost 10 - 5 = 5 So far, I see all of 18 points spent. Stretching costs 5 per 1", with 0 END, persistent, inherent making that 25 points for +5" 56 points instead. It has no damage adder (-1/4? -1/2?) and no non-combat multiplier (-1/4), so that drops the cost to 37 at most. -5" Knockback resistance adds another 15 points. Make it Inherent and that's 19 points. That's 74 points in total, and you offset some of that with a physical limitation for your unusual size. What have I missed that makes Growth, Always On such a superior deal? Hmm, on second thought you're probably right. Part of the issue is that I personally almost never, ever, ever, ever use Inherent. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tech Posted January 31, 2007 Report Share Posted January 31, 2007 Re: Building a Giant: the Checklist Ultimately, it's up to the GM and the campaign rules. If the GM allows the older way of levels of Growth, always on, etc., go for it. If the GM wants it done 5th edition style, abide by that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SSgt Baloo Posted January 31, 2007 Author Report Share Posted January 31, 2007 Re: Building a Giant: the Checklist I think the advantage of Growth, 0 END, Always On, is that everything's already been done for you except the math. The recommended way of building grown characters who are inherently huge is just a different way of doing it. In my own campaigns I'd leave it open as an option. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vestnik Posted January 31, 2007 Report Share Posted January 31, 2007 Re: Building a Giant: the Checklist I think the advantage of Growth' date=' 0 END, Always On[/i'], is that everything's already been done for you except the math. The recommended way of building grown characters who are inherently huge is just a different way of doing it. In my own campaigns I'd leave it open as an option. As pointed out earlier, it would have to be Inherent and Persistent as well according to the new rules. I agree it's just easier to do it in the old way -- I'm big, here's what it gets me, no need to do the extra math and time on other stuff like Stretching. IMO. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Super Squirrel Posted February 1, 2007 Report Share Posted February 1, 2007 Re: Building a Giant: the Checklist I think the advantage of Growth' date=' 0 END, Always On[/i'], is that everything's already been done for you except the math. The recommended way of building grown characters who are inherently huge is just a different way of doing it. In my own campaigns I'd leave it open as an option. I counter that with: 20d6 Dispel Growth Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rebar Posted February 1, 2007 Report Share Posted February 1, 2007 Re: Building a Giant: the Checklist ... almost never' date=' ever, ever, ever...[/quote'] You almost ... never, ever ever ever. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lucius Posted February 2, 2007 Report Share Posted February 2, 2007 Re: Building a Giant: the Checklist I counter that with: 20d6 Dispel Growth No you wouldn't. For three reasons. 1. Inherent. 2. It violates dramatic and/or common sense. 3. What hat did you pull a "Dispel Growth" power out of?? Lucius Alexander Dispell Palindromedary! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vestnik Posted February 2, 2007 Report Share Posted February 2, 2007 Re: Building a Giant: the Checklist 3. What hat did you pull a "Dispel Growth" power out of?? Lucius Alexander That would be the hat known as the Variable Power Pool... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SSgt Baloo Posted February 3, 2007 Author Report Share Posted February 3, 2007 Re: Building a Giant: the Checklist I counter that with: 20d6 Dispel Growth It's Super Surgeon! With his fantastic Remove Growth power, he can treat everything from warts to cancer to that ever-so-annoying conjoined twin! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ghost-angel Posted February 3, 2007 Report Share Posted February 3, 2007 Re: Building a Giant: the Checklist 3. What hat did you pull a "Dispel Growth" power out of?? Adjiustment Powers may be defined to work against a specific Power or Sepecial Effect. Dispel: Growth is legal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lucius Posted February 3, 2007 Report Share Posted February 3, 2007 Re: Building a Giant: the Checklist 3. What hat did you pull a "Dispel Growth" power out of?? Lucius Alexander That would be the hat known as the Variable Power Pool... Yeah, as soon as I posted the question I realized that was the most likely hat. Adjiustment Powers may be defined to work against a specific Power or Sepecial Effect. Dispel: Growth is legal. I don’t question it’s mechanical legality; of course it’s within the rules. I was questioning its SFX justification. And while we’re at it; assuming you have an appropriate hat to pull it out of and a reasonable SFX, can you tell me why it should work on someone with Growth as a persistant power, but NOT work on someone built with a “size template?” My question cuts both ways, really. Lucius Alexander The palindromedary notes that questions usually do, and can we go out and buy a couple of hats? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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