"Merge" construction question

[Paragon]

I'm planning to run a campaign in the Champions: the New Millenium setting, but using Hero 5th for the mechanics. I'm in the process of converting various characters from that setting, including some that never had write-ups. One has me scratching my head a bit. I have an approach for it, but I'd appreciate how others would do it.

 

There are four psionic villains collectively known as PSI. Besides their individual psionic abilities, they can create a "construct" called Psion. Normally this would be a straightforward summon, but the construct gets more powerful the more of them use their abilities to create it.

 

Thoughts?

[Snarf]

I was asking a friend about this a few weeks ago. He thought the only balanced way to do a merge would be to have one guy buy the ability at full power and then heavily limit it so others had to contribute their powers and make a teamwork roll to get the full effect.

 

This may not work for you since it looks like there is no clear leader in the summoning.

[Killer Shrike]

One way to do "merger" or gestalt characters is to make one "character" with Multiform (1 extra form) and Duplication (all the lesser beings that combine together to form the gestalt). Place a limitation on the Multiform that it cant be used at the same time as Duplication (or put both as Ultraslots in a MPP). Or an Accidental Change (to Multiform when Duplicates merge). Or whatever floats your boat.

 

The end result is that the lesser forms combining results in a single greater form.

[Daryl]

Well, there' s already precedent for multiple characters splitting the cost of a base, vehicle, or automaton, so you could use those rules. I'm not familiar with Psion, but if the construct is like an automaton, with no STUN, etc., then you could even use the same pricing rules.

 

If Psion is flesh and bone, then perhaps you use the rules for duplication, which are similar. I'd allow the same splitting as for vehicles.

 

The only weird part is that any particular instance of the "vehicle" only has as many active points as the number of people who call him -- but that could be a disadvanatage on the vehicle, not a limitation on the powers of the people who call him.

 

--d

[Paragon]

I can see in retrospect I wasn't too clear (and the header is downright deceptive): Psion is a construct created by the four members. They don't turn into him; they create him and tie up their powers doing it, but they still have physical existance after he's created.

[Snarf]

I think Daryl's suggestion of mixing vehicle/automaton and summon rules together to have them split the cost could work.

 

First, create the base summon with a vehicle style point cost, 1 point for each character point in the summon, if it's value exceeds that of the highest number of character points possessed by any of the characters (it sounds like it does). Then, apply whatever advantages and limitations it needs for loyalty level and procedures for creation. Then, give everyone a multipower with all their powers in one slot and their portion of the summon in another.

 

You have to bend the rules a couple dozen times but it functions simply and seems balanced to me.

[Nato]

Is this an NPC? If so, why not forget about mechanics for this one - if you find it being more pain than it's worth. Just make each of the characters as well as Psion the way you think they need to be. It's seems more like a story device to me anyway. Unless of course you really just like the challenge of making in a kosher write-up. I'm more from the school of making less work for myself, as long as it accomplishes the desired in-game effect.

[Lord Liaden]

I think Nato's suggestion has merit; but if you genuinely do want to cost this out, let me offer a suggestion or two:

 

I went back over the writeup for the New Millennium version of PSI; obviously the characters aren't statted out, which gives you considerable leeway in how to design their abilities. My suggestion would be to give each of the PSI members a Multipower for their mental abilities, with Summon as one slot. To this I'd apply a custom Limitation, "AP depend on number of Summoners," which I'd peg at about -1/2. So the more PSI members are involved, the more points the Summoned construct can be built on, and the more of their Multipower points must be tied up in creating it. All of them would devote the requisite points and expend the appropriate END, but only one construct would be created at a time.

 

Does that sound like a reasonable start?

[zornwil]

You could go so far as building the construct as a very limited Follower. Then allow the characters to add their points as an Aid to one character's base follower perk, so that the +5 doubles powers.

[Paragon]

Originally posted by Nato

Is this an NPC? If so, why not forget about mechanics for this one - if you find it being more pain than it's worth. Just make each of the characters as well as Psion the way you think they need to be. It's seems more like a story device to me anyway. Unless of course you really just like the challenge of making in a kosher write-up. I'm more from the school of making less work for myself, as long as it accomplishes the desired in-game effect.

 

I strongly avoid using constructs I can't do with the system,. Occasionally I'll do it if it's a one-off event and more trouble than it's worth to spec out, but this will be a regularly appearing villain team.

[Paragon]

Originally posted by Lord Liaden

I think Nato's suggestion has merit; but if you genuinely do want to cost this out, let me offer a suggestion or two:

 

I went back over the writeup for the New Millennium version of PSI; obviously the characters aren't statted out, which gives you considerable leeway in how to design their abilities. My suggestion would be to give each of the PSI members a Multipower for their mental abilities, with Summon as one slot. To this I'd apply a custom Limitation, "AP depend on number of Summoners," which I'd peg at about -1/2. So the more PSI members are involved, the more points the Summoned construct can be built on, and the more of their Multipower points must be tied up in creating it. All of them would devote the requisite points and expend the appropriate END, but only one construct would be created at a time.

 

Does that sound like a reasonable start?

 

That's very close ot the approach I was considering; the only difference is I was going to buy each of the others either an Aid or a Succor for Summon, and deal with the additional power that way. I suspect given how the characters are described Succor is probably the more accurate.

[Fireg0lem]

Here's how I'd build it.

 

For convenience sake, give all the members of PSI the same SPD (they're supposed to be basically identical in powers).

 

Give any one of them, at random, a Summon. Place on it the limit "All other members of PSI must contribute powers," a -1 limit (IMHO), and Side Effect: Loses Powers Until Psychic Construct Is Recalled.

 

Give all three of the others this power:

Succor Xd6 to Summon, Instant (-1/2), Only Guy 1's Power (-1), Side Effect: Loses Powers Until Psychic Construct is Recalled (-1), Standard Effect Rule (-0)

 

Calculate the total points (since the Succor has Standard Effect Rule) and build the construct on that much.

[Osprey]

I thought hard about this years ago while watching a "Captian Planet" Marathon.

 

The 'regular' characters each by Duplication (Psion) with the following limitation:

 

**Requires 3 other people to cooperate (- 1 1/2)

 

This is a limitation I made up.

The standard cost is -1/2 for each extra person needed.

If it can be ANY person, it's -1/4. -1/2 assumes a group of particular people.

 

you then apply "Can't use while Duplication is on (-1/2)" to all the other powers.

[Grailknight]

I like the Succor option but there is another way given in Ultimate Mentalist. Mentalists can combine their powers to achieve a greater effect. Each character should buy the summon at a base power level. The combined power gets base value + 25% of the value of each additional contributor. This gives a set result unlike the Succor which requires some die rolls to get to full power.

[Elysea]

I'd give each villain a multipower, and give them all a low-powered Summon and a high-powered Aid/Succor as two of their slots. They should all have the base Summon power so that they can still create the construct even if one or two members of the team are down. Make each villain's Aid large enough to eat up their entire Multipower if you want to make sure that they can't use other powers as long as they're maintaining the construct, or you can just self-enforce that rule if you find they end up with too much Aid in this manner. The power level of the construct is going to be random based on how well the villains roll on their Aid, which means more work for you but, IMHO, more fun for the players. It's more interesting if you don't know just how many dice of damage that energy blast is going to do from one fight to the next...

[Agent333]

Off the top of my head I would have to say I'd build Psion at three different levels: a two Psi member version, a three Psi member version and a four Psi member version. Each version increases in power (maybe equal to the points of the summoners?) and each version is a Summon power with it's own slot in a multipower. However, the Active cost of each version is partitioned between each member of Psi. Therefore: Psion gets more powerful with each member included, but the last slot in the Multipower still costs the same (or less) than the first slot.

 

I doubt this is rules legit, but it could get the job done.

[Osprey]

Originally posted by Agent333

Off the top of my head I would have to say I'd build Psion at three different levels: a two Psi member version, a three Psi member version and a four Psi member version. Each version increases in power (maybe equal to the points of the summoners?) and each version is a Summon power with it's own slot in a multipower. However, the Active cost of each version is partitioned between each member of Psi. Therefore: Psion gets more powerful with each member included, but the last slot in the Multipower still costs the same (or less) than the first slot.

 

I doubt this is rules legit, but it could get the job done.

 

I see some real worth in this version.

 

Legitimacy requires only two things:

1) GM approval

2) It works