CLOWN plus other oddities

[John Roberts]

I am interested in seeing conversoins on some of my favoirte villains and NPC groups. Clown and Nuetral Ground, Blood and Dr. McQuark. Some of the nastries from Hi Tech Enemies and Mutant File... maybe even a new book of Strikeforce or a new book like that. As I liked to see the progressoin a gm and his characters took. It was interesting and shows how players and PCs progress whil RL goes on. I'd also like to see some more villain books and would of preferred the old Enemies books titles more than the "Conquerors, Killers and Crooks" but that's just me and it's only on the title. Beyond that I liked it. I would like to see a Heroes of the past type book so that you can include all the heroes and villains you toasted in the "Millenium City" storyline. I like reading the bios, seeing how you did powers and looking at solid artwork, that is what sells a book for me.

 

I remember the first villain group my Champoin's character fought.. the Geodesics, later Black Paladin, Rainbow Archer and Bulldozer. Those where my first nemesis of my first pure Champions campaign.

 

I am happy to see a "Viper" book as I must say was one of the best written of almost all the Champions line of the BBB era. I am also enjoying the productivity that Hero Games has been able to do, I've actually gotten behind in my Champions purchases a few times just because the fact your guys are putting out so much stuff. But luckily I'm all caught up and await the next installment.

[tiger]

I also always loved CLOWN and the concept behind the Nuetral ground module. I believe that there are issues that will prevent these from being redone however.

 

I am looking forward to both the Viper, Primus, Until & Demon books.

[JmOz]

Yes the main issue as I understand it is that Steve Long dislikes CLOWN and Neutral ground

[Bartman]

Can't say that that bothers me. I hated both Neutral Ground and Clown. Not just disliked, hated. And I'm not sure why. They weren't bad products, like European Enemies. But none the less it causes me no pain to see that they won't be reissued.

[tiger]

Well one can understand where Neutral Ground would be a proble. The thought of a place where villains are affective safe goes against the grain. I just thought it was a useful and different concept.

 

Clown is just plain fun, the craziness you can have with them as a GM is great!

[TheEmerged]

Originally posted by JmOz

Yes the main issue as I understand it is that Steve Long dislikes CLOWN and Neutral ground

 

I was shocked when I discovered how hated CLOWN tends to be amongst HERO long-timers. My PC's *loved* this group; heck half the time they ended up joining it as auxillery members!

 

I think the difference was that I didn't use them to embarrass the PC's. Being a long-time fan of political cartooning, I used CLOWN to do this in my campaigns.

 

As for Sanctuary/Neutral Ground -- I admit part of my love for this stems from my desire to "stretch" this system ("So, you guys want to start a touch football game. I wonder how we run this?"). But mainly it comes from its wonderful ability to create bizare scenarios.

 

Speaking for my current "NeoChampions" campaign, I've adopted Neutral Ground because it is simply too true to the world's backstory. It allows me to combine the "Teragen" from Aberrant with the Isla Delta seperatists from Brave New World (game, not book). I've decided that Hyperion is this campaigns "first nova", and has retired to run it.

[tiger]

Originally posted by TheEmerged

I was shocked when I discovered how hated CLOWN tends to be amongst HERO long-timers. My PC's *loved* this group; heck half the time they ended up joining it as auxillery members!

 

Yep I have a hero who has petioned to become a member. His "pledge" prank was placing signs on the road to the Grand Canyon that said "Arizona State Land Fill"

 

He never heard back from Clown, Arizona isn't to happy about the whole deal though. It seemed some trucks had showed up to dump, they proved to lack a sense of humor

 

I never really used Neutral Grond, I have a copy of Classic Organizations so I do have it.

[Freehold South]

Originally posted by tiger

I never really used Neutral Grond, I have a copy of Classic Organizations so I do have it. [/b]

 

Man, I sure hope that Grond would not be choosing sides. The damage down to the sightseeing business alone would be catastophic!

[Vondy]

CLOWN MUST BE KILLED!!!!!

 

No wait. I did that already. Really. It was fun.

 

In all truth I think the clown supplement was okay, and Merry Andrew by himself might be okay, but the GMs I've seen use them have done one of the following:

 

1) humiliated the players with them (petty)

2) misjudged or disrupted the campaign tone (whoops)

3) failed to connect with their players motivations for gaming

 

Some players love slapstick silliness. Some players enjoy goofy plots now and again. Some players don't enjoy three stooges action. Fun to watch, not to participate in. For me, personally, most of my characters (or the games I've played in) aren't suited to CLOWN-Capades.

 

Tragedy is when something bad happens to you, comedy is when something bad happens to somebody else. Most people I've met regard CLOWN as a harbringer of tragedy and humilation, not comedy.

 

Dark Clown on the other hand... now that's another story.

 

I though Classic Organizations was an okay book, but Neutral Ground wasn't for me.

[JmOz]

Then again one group of players (accidentaly) got a judge to make Merry Andrew be there Gadget Guru...

[TheEmerged]

Re: CLOWN plus other oddities

 

Originally posted by John Roberts

I am interested in seeing conversoins on some of my favoirte villains and NPC groups. Clown and Nuetral Ground, Blood and Dr. McQuark. Some of the nastries from Hi Tech Enemies and Mutant File...

 

Didn't notice this the first time around. I'll have to double check on the Company Board, but as I understand it it's against DOJ policy for us to post "conversions" of characters they might someday decide to release. Granted that all signs indicate CLOWN and Sanctuary will probably never be released... but I'd rather be safe than sorry.

[Vondy]

Re: Re: CLOWN plus other oddities

 

Originally posted by TheEmerged

Didn't notice this the first time around. I'll have to double check on the Company Board, but as I understand it it's against DOJ policy for us to post "conversions" of characters they might someday decide to release. Granted that all signs indicate CLOWN and Sanctuary will probably never be released... but I'd rather be safe than sorry.

 

It might just be considered... bad taste... to post CLOWN.

[tiger]

Well if a person wanted to work them up all you'd have to do is send Steve an email. I asked about post modification to Genocide & King Cobra on mine and was given premission

[TheEmerged]

Originally posted by tiger

Well if a person wanted to work them up all you'd have to do is send Steve an email. I asked about post modification to Genocide & King Cobra on mine and was given premission

 

Hmm, looks like I might have a project this weekend then...

[SuperPheemy]

Again, it seems CLOWN has decided to make contact via my Cubicle of Solitude. This time it was a DVD clamped in the mouth of a rubber duckey that ticked. Removal of the disk caused the duckey to explode, filling my cubicle with menthol-scented shaving cream. I'll be busy wiping things down for the next couple of hours, so here goes.

 

Just don't shoot the messenger, ok?

The communication opens with Merry Andrew standing in front of a flannel board wearing Graduate's robes and a Scholalr's Hat (you know, the flat square thingey with a tassel). Looking especially dignified and sagelike, Andrew begins his communique'

 

"First, allow me to apologize for CLOWN's silence during the past several weeks. We've been busy in California maneuvering the political climate so a certain someone might usurp the current governor and take the reigns of power in the state. Trust us, this will be better than the "Minnesota/ Jesse Ventura" prank a couple of years ago.

 

But this isn't about Gubernatorial Politics, this is about HERO, and CLOWN, and the state of Superheroic Role-Playing. Thus, in the interest of the CLOWN organization, I feel moved to explain how this August Body is supposed to operate. Please direct your attention to the Flannelgraph."

 

Off camera the other CLOWNs voices can be heard in saying "Ooooooooh... Flaanelgraph" in unison with awed reverence.

 

Keep in mind that we are not Foxbat. With all due respec... Waitasecond, this is Freddy we're talking about. Trust us, we're not Foxbat. We have more class, better fashion sense, and a waaaay cooler master plan."

 

To illustrate his point, Merry Andrew places a velcro Foxbat on the flannel board with a red circle and slash superimposed over the figure. He pauses for a moment, brings his hand to his chin in thought, then whipps out a Sharpie Pen and draws a moustashe and beard on Foxbat's face.

 

"Second, we work in the art of satire. We lampoon, we prank, we draw attention to the absurdities in life among Supeheroes. It is not enough to simply humiliate, embarras, and harrass the heroes in your campaign cities. There must be some sort of message inherent in the buffoonery. I'd explain except that the CLOWN bylaws prevent me from revealing those critical details to you at this time.

 

Third, I must stress the importance of execution", for emphasis, Andrew brings his wooden pointer into his palm with a loud *CRACK* which causes three of the off-camera CLOWNs to shout "AARGH, you got me!" and fall over with dramatic crashes. Andrew purses his lips in annoyance, but continues.

 

"To illustrate, it wouldn't be appropriate to put a "Kick Me" sign on the back of the Golden Avenger. That's not comedy. Putting a Gore/Lieberman 2000 bumper sticker on his back is far more appropriate but still too small-time for us. Renting the building containting GA's office to the American Communist Party Presidential Exploration Committee for the duration of the upcoming Presidential Campaign is better, but a true prank would be to campaign AS Golden Avenger and run under the American Communist ticket. I'm talking stump speeches, a nationwide series of town hall meetings, radio, television, and print advertizement and a balloon in this years Macy's Thanksgiving Day Parade!

 

You know, that's not a bad idea... Beuford, write that down!

 

Where was I?"

 

Off camera, a CLOWN shouts "FLANNELGRAPH!"

 

"Oh, of course, the flannelgraph." Andrew quickly adds a dozen new velcro pictures, featuring Golden Avenger wearing an Uncle Sam coat and hat, the Presidential Seal, and a variety of political campaign illustrations.

 

"Why would we do this? Not to embarras the hero... Well, we would embarras the hero, and it would be funny, but that's not the point. The point is, that there is no point to be made. But it would be fun to run for President again. This would show just how many people would vote for Golden Avenger just on his heroic identity and reputation regardless of his platform or political affiliation.

 

But we're not all about politics. We're about HEROES especially those heroes who like to take themselves as serious as a heart-attack. I mean, for crying out loud, don't you realize that you're wearing costumes and masks? You're running around in TIGHTS for Chrissakes, and you get upset at us because we laugh at you. At least we admit we look ridiculous.

 

And therein lies the core of our mission, because once someone who possesses the power of a deity, but is unhinged enough to wear spandex in primary colors with a flippin' cape in contrasting colors takes himself (or herself) too seriously, then we'll have a REAL problem on our hands."

 

Merry Andrew looks out at the camera sternly, seriously for several moments, allowing his words to sink in. Then bursts out laughing.

 

"I'm just kidding. It's about the money. Really, we're just about the cash. Pfft... real problem on our hands... You know I think they almost bought it. Schmucks!"

 

From off camera Snapshot whispers, "We're still rolling!"

 

"Oh. Just err... disregard that last part. About the money and shumcks. It was... a brief Mind Control from Sado. Yeah, that's it, Miiiiiiiiiind Controoooooool." Andrew waggles his fingers at the camera and bugs his eyes out. Snapshot mercifully fades to black.

[Old Man]

The neat thing about CLOWN is that if you do it right it can have a different feel depending on the campaign. Some players like slapstick Champs. I don't, but the idea of a sick and twisted, semi-horror, Something Wicked This Way Comes freakshow version would interest me greatly.

[Agent X]

Originally posted by JmOz

Yes the main issue as I understand it is that Steve Long dislikes CLOWN and Neutral ground

Well, if he doesn't want to support such material with an actual book, why not sell such things over the net?

 

This is assuming he could find others to do the work for him and he could just accept DOJ's percentage. It's real simple and he need never deal with it in any time-leaching way.

[Powerhouse]

I never liked CLOWN much and as for Sanctuary... no. I can't see sharing space with someone who tried to kill me last week when he was trying to blow up a bridge.

 

Many supervillains are psychopaths, meglomaniacs, and the like... not who I want to chill with.

[Klytus]

Originally posted by Powerhouse

I never liked CLOWN much and as for Sanctuary... no. I can't see sharing space with someone who tried to kill me last week when he was trying to blow up a bridge.

 

Many supervillains are psychopaths, meglomaniacs, and the like... not who I want to chill with.

I think a major reason for doing Sanctuary was so that players who fancied their character was the next Reed Richards could sit and play chess against Dr. Destroyer and have it be "believeable" that no one was captured or actively trying to kill each other.

[John Roberts]

CLOWN - Honestly I don't see what folks have against CLOWN. Comedy is useful is giving heroes a break from the Dark and depressing. In the campaigns I've run and been in CLOWN has always been a entertaining escape. The teams I've been on have had fun with the pranks done to them and battling CLOWN. We even played a couple of adventures as CLOWN member and that was fun. Should CLOWN antics take over a campaign and should GMs overdo the humiliation.. no. But CLOWN can be used to help ligthen up a campaign when it's on the brink of being too dark.

 

SANCTUARY - I only seen this used well in a world of anti-hero/mutant sentiment. It was used a sort of colony.

 

BLOOD - I always liked this gimmick.. even liked Sabre

 

DR MCQUARK - Ah the worlds best gadgeteer and inventor. He was my first teams first sponsor

 

GEODESICS - This was the team that showed us that it's not about th epoints but about the teamwork.

 

Hi Tech Enemies - Cyberknights.. and I forget the enemy group.. I liked seeing them.. I even used them to have a Cyborg storyline in my campaign. Showing common folks selling thert souls to be superbeings.

 

I was also dissapoointed to see TERRROR INC get squished.. and several members of EUROSTAR get eliminated or not mentioned like WHITE FLAME.

 

Another team I was saddened to not see (or maybe I've gone insane) was the "CONQUERORS... No Neutron, no Wyvern, No Arc..

 

I hope will see more of the heroes from Europe, like the NEW KNIGHTS, published. Maybe DIGITAL HERO or something else would be a good place to show the forgotten, the dead, or the never were to be published. PROFESSOR MUERTE and BORA would be good to see again.

 

I also want to see KING COBRA and his organization, so many cool snake based villains to see go bye bye

 

Thats just a few of the things I'd like to see..

[James Gillen]

I liked Neutral Ground.

 

From 3rd Edition, I miss the Corruptors of All.

 

And I liked CLOWN, but I also know some people hated it. In our campaign, they came to Seattle, and the group's "dark vigilante" not only didn't get the joke, he cut off Marbles' arm.

 

Given that Steve is the one who invented Harbinger of Justice, I can only imagine what he thinks about CLOWN.

 

JG

[Agent X]

Originally posted by James Gillen

I liked Neutral Ground.

 

From 3rd Edition, I miss the Corruptors of All.

 

And I liked CLOWN, but I also know some people hated it. In our campaign, they came to Seattle, and the group's "dark vigilante" not only didn't get the joke, he cut off Marbles' arm.

 

Given that Steve is the one who invented Harbinger of Justice, I can only imagine what he thinks about CLOWN.

 

JG

The Corruptors of All - were they that wierd team from an alternate dimension with members including Gaussian? I only ask because I am too lazy to dig out my books.