The Price of an Inn?

[lynnlefey]

Right, so... how much would an inn, one capable of holding let's say 20 guests cost? Assume it's the kind that offer 'standard' room and food, and is located in a large city in the kind of neighborhood that would attract those folks looking for a standard room or meal, and assume I'm using standard prices from FH.

 

The best price I came up with when I utterly winged it was about 400gp, but I can find absolutely nothing to really base numbers off of.

[Gadodel]

Re: The Price of an Inn?

 

It depends on what you want the Inn to have:

1. Guest Rooms.

2. Antechambers.

3. Fireplaces.

4. Dining Area.

5. Kitchen.

6. Tavern.

7. Storage Rooms.

8. Office.

9. Security measures.

10. Grounds.

11. Stable.

12. A Garden.

13. Smokehouse.

14. Cellar.

15. Armory or Safes.

 

That is just a general list.

 

Now, think of employees.

1. Clerk.

2. Brewer.

3. Chef.

4. Waiters/Maids.

5. Stable Boss.

6. Supply Boss.

7. Couriers/Teamsters.

8. Guides/Scribes.

9. Entertainers.

10. Carpenters/Laborers.

 

The formula I use:

Figure the cost of employees per year.

Figure the cost of the structure add budget for upkeep.

Figure the cost of property taxes.

 

The total is what you what pay for the Inn, initially. After that, the cost may vary, but the initial cost should always be more than the yearly cost thereafter.

[lynnlefey]

Re: The Price of an Inn?

 

The problem here is I have no real way to figure the cost of the structure, which is the problem. It might be able to be derived by determining the time it would take to fell a tree and make each beam used, how long it would take to quarry the stones, ship them, lay them, etc, but I have no idea what the work rate is for a stone mason, thatcher, and how many man-hours it takes to cut a tree, saw it into timbers, and transport it to a city from where it may be found.

 

And trust me, I've wasted hours and hours and HOURS looking for any kind of number to base even a basic guess on.

 

If it helps, the inn's first floor is a common room and storage, the second floor is any guest rooms and main cooking fireplace. Third floor (peaked roof area) is where the servants live. This layout assumes some private rooms, but about half the folks sleeping in the common room. A small stable would be just outside with a small yard, or it may be sharing a stable with other businesses (haven't determined that yet). No real grounds to speak of.

 

My basis for my price was to look at what money might be made by running such a place, then figuring that ten years of profit would go to pay it off. I guess I just want to know if it sounds like I'm in the ballpark or if the number seems insane. If it is insane, I think I erred on the low side, since the number seems a might low to me. But a gp is worth a lot more in FH that in some other fantasy game system I may have used in the past.

 

I also know there's the real estate moto 'location, location, location', that could throw the price, which I tried to cover in the first post. Major city, reasonable neighborhood.

[Gadodel]

Re: The Price of an Inn?

 

Waaay back when I was new to gaming, I used a really simplified formula: I took the population and divided it by 10. Example: a village of 250 people, an Inn might cost 25 gold pieces to build. Another 25 gold pieces to furnish. Another 25 gold pieces to run a month. Thus, it might cost a gold piece for room, board, bartap-for a night.

 

A city of 10,000: The inn would cost 1,000 gp to build. 1,000 to furnish. 1,000 gp to run a month. It might cost someone 10 gp a night for room, board and a bartap.

 

But, I was like 12 years old when I pulled that formula out of thin air. I kept it because I was lazy and like you, found the research difficult and pointlessly time consuming.

 

I've come up with other formulas just for variance, but usually include aspects like docking and stable fees.

[Steve Long]

Re: The Price of an Inn?

 

Well, there are several issues to consider:

 

1. What's the standard of exchange in the campaign setting, and the general economic conditions? Are we on the silver standard, the gold standard, other? What are the costs of some standard items (e.g., a loaf of bread, a horse)?

 

2. What's the condition of the inn in question? What resources or facilities does it offer?

 

3. How profitable is the inn likely to be? Does it have a history of profitability at that site, or is it brand-new? How good is the location?

 

In other words, a run-down old inn on an out-of-the-way road is worth less than the same inn on a well-traveled trade route... and if the latter inn is in good condition, it's worth even more.

[Killer Shrike]

Re: The Price of an Inn?

 

There is one phrase that is infinitely useful when determining prices of things like real estate and other big ticket items:

 

"Whatever the market will bear"

 

 

However, if you are looking for some kind of formula, consider designing the inn as a base, take the total cost - any disadvantages, and multiply it by a flat number like 3 or 5 based upon "other factors" such as good location, bad location (but remember some of that is factored into the cost of the base via the Location modifier). Alternately if you want to have more of a variable market (after all anyone that has ever bought property knows that the asking price doesn't always have to be reasonable, and on the other hand deals do exist) by 1d6 + 1. If the numbers seem low for your campaign, increase the multiple. However keep in mind that we tend to have an exaggerated sense of property costs due to living in a mortgage driven economy. Economies that lack a strong banking lock that profits from inflated property costs -- or indeed don't have banks at all -- would have lower total purchase prices because a sale generally would have to be completed as a single lump sum.

 

 

 

On the other other hand you can also consider what the Inn (or whatever) represents in game terms and introduce that into the mix.

 

I wrote something about this at one point but can't recall where, but anyway you could consider that an Inn might be nothing more than a source of Wealth (Wealth; OIF, Bulky, Immobile). It could be the SFX for other perks as well; (Reputation: Businessman) or (Reputation: Innkeep) or (Perk: Town Elder (Innkeep)) or (Contacts: People Met While Running Inn) and so forth. It can also be primarily a source of problems, represented via slight retaskings of Disadvantages like DNPC (ie Dependent Base) and/or Social Limitations (disadvantages that affect the base directly should be taken on the base, but disadvantages that affect the CHARACTER owning the base can be taken at the character level). It could also just be a story element.

 

It could be any combination of these things (and more). All of them are equally "right"; it just depends on what you want it to represent in your game, and at what level you want to track it.

[Manic Typist]

Re: The Price of an Inn?

 

If an Innkeeper asked me for 400gp for a night... I would stare in shock, and tell everyone to run, as fast as they could. Something is WRONG.

[Choldath]

Re: The Price of an Inn?

 

Basic Tavern: 900gp (20 people)

Basic Storage: 250gp (2,000' cubed)

Basic Bedroom Suite: 800gp (Queen size straw bed, 2 chest of drawers)

Basic Kitchen: 2000gp (with pantry, serves 15 people)

 

Stronghold Builder's Guidebook by Wizards of the Coast

 

Based on the above, you're talking 11,150 gp. Honestly, I haven't read the book, but this should be a rough estimate. I read in Dragon magazine that a 2x4 cost about 2cp.

 

Granted, it will take 279 days at 2gp per person at capacity to pay the building off. There are other options in the book that can be used to reduce the cost (skills, magic, etc). Also, besides what is listed, you'll need to stock the place.

 

Hope this helps

[Thia Halmades]

Re: The Price of an Inn?

 

Teh.... well, if you want a simple calculation from the mortgage banking side, Steve has the gist in that we gauge value based on market, which is based on location, condition, and other factors.

 

If you're looking for the general cost of the structure? One month's rent/upkeep on a house or condo is usually 1/100th of the total value; you can use that as a VERY rough gauge. So if you're being charged, say, 400gp/Month, your total structure is worth around 40,000gp (YOINK). Or more, depending. Then you have to account for the total budget if you want to go that route and really get it down; is the place turning a profit? That's a massive question, really.

 

IOW, ballparking it is your best bet. Land = Money.

[Killer Shrike]

Re: The Price of an Inn?

 

If an Innkeeper asked me for 400gp for a night... I would stare in shock' date=' and tell everyone to run, as fast as they could. Something is WRONG.[/quote']

 

I believe the question is how much to BUY the Inn, not how much to STAY in the Inn.

[Manic Typist]

Re: The Price of an Inn?

 

OH, thank the gods.

 

Otherwise, my answer would have been to the barkeep "Sir, that's how much I would be paid to burn this place down... Now, what did you say your price REALLY was?"

[Eosin]

Re: The Price of an Inn?

 

Setting matters.

 

If the setting is sufficiently feudal then the intended "owner" would need permission to buy the inn (bribes to courtiers and magistrates). There could be ugly taxes barring any special "considerations" for the lodging of functionaries.

 

Absent these issues, I'd consider the grandness of the inn in question and then compare to modern prices to get a rough gauge. A dump can be built for a few hundred thousand - but most run into the low millions to build. What is the GP equivalent to 1 million dollars in your game? From there you can work the math.... Medieval inns aren't as elaborate but they are more difficult to build and design. Take a stab and say $600,000 for a "regular" inn (now we have 0.6 x our 1 million dollar object). Add in all the miscellany that you want (exotic stock for the bar, hidden cellar, bribes, gifts and sundries for the local nobility, 3-4 helpers, maybe a barn, stable horses, etc...)

 

Come up with a good round number and plenty of adventure hooks for it.

 

OTOH, if the players have wealth greater than 5, it should just be a routine purchase unless it is the Ceasaer's Palace of inns.

[keithcurtis]

Re: The Price of an Inn?

 

Figure what a very skilled laborer (middle-class analog) makes in a year. Figure half a middle-class income goes into paying a mortgage.

Multiply by 30 years.

Price of inn.

 

Keith "I just tell my players it will cost x per month and then let them know if they are having trouble making x" Curtis

[Gadodel]

Re: The Price of an Inn?

 

 

In other words, a run-down old inn on an out-of-the-way road is worth less than the same inn on a well-traveled trade route... and if the latter inn is in good condition, it's worth even more.

 

That's a good point. Location, location, location. It really does matter.

[Blue Jogger]

Re: The Price of an Inn?

 

The main cost of the inn is not the building, but buying the land to put it on, and the high maintenance cost to keep an inn in "just-like-new" status and to pay taxes. The maintenance cost increases with the size of the building and the general quality of the neighberhood. (If you're in a nice neighberhood, you are expected to keep your building nice too.)

 

So, replacement cost, say if the building burned down, might be as low as 400 gold pieces. In most cases, however, the inn might barely break even if not actually lose money since it costs almost as much money to keep it operational compared to the income earned.

 

Just something to think about when thinking of the price of an inn.

[Michael Hopcroft]

Re: The Price of an Inn?

 

Even in cities, in fantasy worlds it is much more efficient to rent land and then build on it than to buy the land. Theoretically in feudal systems land is owned by the lord, and everyone who lives on it is a tenant, but the tenant who practices a skilled trade (such as innkeeping) has some discretion as far as to what he actually builds on the rented land.

 

Many of the roadside inns that adventurers stay in will likely be owned by the local lords or government as "post stations"; the innkeepers can charge locals and non-government travelers for use of the facility and keep the profit for themselves provided official couriers can use the facilities free of charge. Without such stations, it is nearly impossible for a national government to maintain any sort of communications.

 

An innkeeper is very likely to be a member of a guild or similar trade organization -- possibly several. Inns serve many, many functions; gathering places/pubs for the locals, accommodation for travelers, impromptu town halls, and sometimes even churches and/or brothels.

[AmadanNaBriona]

Re: The Price of an Inn?

 

Even in cities, in fantasy worlds it is much more efficient to rent land and then build on it than to buy the land. Theoretically in feudal systems land is owned by the lord, and everyone who lives on it is a tenant, but the tenant who practices a skilled trade (such as innkeeping) has some discretion as far as to what he actually builds on the rented land.

 

Many of the roadside inns that adventurers stay in will likely be owned by the local lords or government as "post stations"; the innkeepers can charge locals and non-government travelers for use of the facility and keep the profit for themselves provided official couriers can use the facilities free of charge. Without such stations, it is nearly impossible for a national government to maintain any sort of communications.

 

An innkeeper is very likely to be a member of a guild or similar trade organization -- possibly several. Inns serve many, many functions; gathering places/pubs for the locals, accommodation for travelers, impromptu town halls, and sometimes even churches and/or brothels.

 

This jibes well with what I was going to mention, which if history as shown in fiction and song is any indication, buying or building such an establishment is the "retirement dream" of many a solider or sailor in the service.

 

Which was what I'd base the price on...a good hunk of the savings of a professional solider after, say, 8 years in service.

 

Good for the lords because it puts trained & loyal men in the positions, assuring that messengers get treated as they should.

[lynnlefey]

Re: The Price of an Inn?

 

I think I've settled on building it as a base, and having cost = 5gp per point.