Would you allow this power

[JmOz]

Before anyone says it, the power build is not book legal, thus the question of if you would allow it

 

Special Effect: The character wears a battlesuit, the suit itself will have a few other powers (Flight, Armor, FF, EB's, Comm system, LS, etc...) but it's main power is a shinking power

 

Now the idea of the shinking is this, the armor changes his size, but once the size is changed the armor can be removed and he will stay at that size, the actual size change is tireing on the body as well so Costs end to activate

 

Idea right now is Shinking (6 levels), Costs end to activate, Persistant (105 active points) -1/4 Varlimitation (only for OIF or Always on) total cost 84 points

 

The atomic powers (Flight, EB, FF) will also have VarLimitaion (Linked to shinking or x2 endurance)

[ghost-angel]

Re: Would you allow this power

 

I'd let it in. Has some fun potential with it.

 

What if he shrinks, gets out of the suit and then the suit is stolen! Can't get back to normal size!

[Hugh Neilson]

Re: Would you allow this power

 

Idea right now is Shinking (6 levels), Costs end to activate, Persistant (105 active points) -1/4 Varlimitation (only for OIF or Always on) total cost 84 points

 

The atomic powers (Flight, EB, FF) will also have VarLimitaion (Linked to shinking or x2 endurance)

 

I'd allow it on a fairly simple basis. If I disallow the Var Lim, I would likely allow "Requires OIF armor to change size" at -1/4 anyway. As well, "2xEND if not shrunk" seems like a reasonable -1/4 limitation.

[Basil]

Re: Would you allow this power

 

Before anyone says it' date=' the power build is not book legal, thus the question of if you would allow it[/quote']

OK, perhaps I'm dense today, but just how is it not book legal?

 

The atomic powers (Flight, EB, FF) will also have VarLimitaion (Linked to shinking or x2 endurance)

Um, do you mean he still has them if (A) he's shrunk and ( he's taken the suit off? Or are you planning on having OIF on them, separately?

[JmOz]

Re: Would you allow this power

 

OK' date=' perhaps I'm dense today, but just [u']how[/u] is it not book legal?

 

 

Um, do you mean he still has them if (A) he's shrunk and ( he's taken the suit off? Or are you planning on having OIF on them, separately?

 

The power costs endurance and is persistant (and in some cases always on) this is not allowed by the letter of the rules

 

Yes the atomic powers will also have OIF: Power Armor. Basicaly while in armor he can still fly, shoot beams of energy, etc... but it costs more endurance (x2)

[Hyper-Man]

Re: Would you allow this power

 

Have you considered using the power Multiform instead of Shrinking to define his shrunk state?

 

That would be a rules legal way to define the shrunk form as 0 End and Persistant but still have it cost End to switch to. You could then also take some type of Limitation only affecting the ability to switch forms based on the armor. I haven't looked yet but I'm guessing this might be covered in the Ultimate Metamorph too.

 

This might be the best way to model the powers of the DCU's Atom who also stayed shrunk even if he lost his shrink-belt while shrunk.

[Vondy]

Re: Would you allow this power

 

I'd approve it, but I'm wary of the variable limitation. I'd rather see concrete limitations that are less open to interpretation. Still, it would be acceptable insofar as the player and I discussed and agreed upon what it meant.

[Basil]

Re: Would you allow this power

 

OK' date=' perhaps I'm dense today, but just [u']how[/u] is it not book legal?

The power costs endurance and is persistant (and in some cases always on) this is not allowed by the letter of the rules

 

Ah, I forgot about that.

 

Though I do wonder if it should really apply to "only to activate" powers....

[Vorsch]

Re: Would you allow this power

 

I would allow it, because as it happens i was thinking of the persistant advantage as it relates to end use and realized that there are good examples of powers that would not care if the user was conscious or not and still draw end.

 

eg

 

Force field belt with end reserve, you turn it on, you get KOed it stays on. and drains the battery.

 

some magic types might have this kind of thing as well.

 

Vorsch

[Gideon]

Re: Would you allow this power

 

The power costs endurance and is persistant (and in some cases always on) this is not allowed by the letter of the rules

 

There is a way to get basicly the same effect while being book legal. Take Side Effect where the effect is a stun drain using the standard effect rules.

 

The power then can be bought with 0 end, and persistent leagally, but still cost end to activate and use.

 

If I were to allow this power set, I would require it to be built this way.

[JmOz]

Re: Would you allow this power

 

There is a way to get basicly the same effect while being book legal. Take Side Effect where the effect is a stun drain using the standard effect rules.

 

The power then can be bought with 0 end, and persistent leagally, but still cost end to activate and use.

 

If I were to allow this power set, I would require it to be built this way.

 

Other than the rules legality issues, why? I am curious about the reasoning of why you would require a greater advantage and a lim to do the same thing

 

The real funny thing is the rules legal way is probably cheaper, but not simpler...

[Grimble]

Re: Would you allow this power

 

I'd allow it, as long as you still need the suit to grow back to normal size. Why would I not allow a character to shrink down to 1-2 inches tall and then leave his armor and weapons systems behind to go do stuff? Don't worry. Nothing would happen to the suit...Really. What could possibly happen to the suit while you're away from it.

 

 

Grimble

[Rapier]

Re: Would you allow this power

 

I'd allow it' date=' as long as you still need the suit to grow back to normal size. Why would I not allow a character to shrink down to 1-2 inches tall and then leave his armor and weapons systems behind to go do stuff? Don't worry. Nothing would happen to the suit...Really. What could possibly happen to the suit while you're away from it. [/quote']

 

That would be my main concern.

 

This is little more than some kind of Fantastic Voyage. The characters run down to the lab and shrink themselves down to 1" high (1 real ", not game "). They then run around and do their thing. They can't return to normal height until they come back to the lab...lets just hope they don't need to get something off the top shelf to beat the villain. So that's not a problem. Heck, at that point I'd ask him if it might not be a better idea to have it be some kind of big bulky immobile machine!

 

If I were this character, I wouldn't be Shrinking and taking off my armour and wandering around. I could see Shrinking, leaving my armour with my mates and then crawling through a mouse hole to get to the other side of the wall to open a door or something and then putting the armour back on, but just leaving your armour (eg focus) lying around where anyone could grab it sounds like the definition of "BAD IDEA!"

 

I also would not allow him to Shrink, remove the armour and pass off the armour to a mate to carry. I would also hope that the armour might have a little bit of DEF and why leave your DEF behind?

[Hyper-Man]

Re: Would you allow this power

 

Other than the rules legality issues, why? I am curious about the reasoning of why you would require a greater advantage and a lim to do the same thing

 

The real funny thing is the rules legal way is probably cheaper, but not simpler...

 

Is the shrinking via the armor a universal ability (aka universal focus) or can only this character use that ability?

[Grimble]

Re: Would you allow this power

 

I would also ask why he would choose to leave the armor. I don't see why there would be a problem letting someone else carry around then shrunken armor. There is no rule against it. I dodn't see them being able to use it in any useful way, other than (hopefully) getting it back to his shrunken teammate in one piece.

 

 

Grimble

[Hyper-Man]

Re: Would you allow this power

 

I would also ask why he would choose to leave the armor. I don't see why there would be a problem letting someone else carry around then shrunken armor. There is no rule against it. I dodn't see them being able to use it in any useful way, other than (hopefully) getting it back to his shrunken teammate in one piece.

 

 

Grimble

 

I think this was covered in the original post:

The atomic powers (Flight, EB, FF) will also have VarLimitaion (Linked to shinking or x2 endurance)

[Basil]

Re: Would you allow this power

 

BTW, I would allow it, because I can't think of a good reason to forbid Persistant Powers from taking "Costs END."

[Gideon]

Re: Would you allow this power

 

Other than the rules legality issues, why? I am curious about the reasoning of why you would require a greater advantage and a lim to do the same thing

 

The real funny thing is the rules legal way is probably cheaper, but not simpler...

Because simply put, if I can make something work legally according to the book then I will. I have been in groups where one player was allowed to have something that wasn't book legal (not just hero mind you) and other players complained. So I prefer anything to be book legal.

 

Now as to why I actually prefer persistent powers to be bought with Side effect: end drain instead of costs end... well the power can't put you into a coma.

 

Remeber if you are nocked to 0 Stun, your End drops to 0 also. So that means that the way you want to build the character if he is dropped to 0 Stun, on each of his phases he will still be forced to pay end, which he can't, so he has to burn Stun instead (1d6 Stun for every 2 End).

 

Thus not only can he not get a recovery without aid, because he is constatly taking damage from his powers, and dropping further into -Stun

 

When dropped to 0 End, a Drain does not start dropping your Stun, or other Stats.

[Balabanto]

Re: Would you allow this power

 

The problem here is that once he gets knocked out, he never gets back up. Ever. He might as well be named "The amazing coma man."

 

If you take the side effect limitation, however, he simply becomes "Torpor King," as he will simply have colossal amounts of negative end and burn stun for everything.

[ThatDarnCat]

Re: Would you allow this power

 

It's less crazy/bizarre than some characters I've allowed in my games. I would allow it so long as the player and I have discussed the details of how it works and they stick to the agreed upon limitations.

[Barbara vdB]

Re: Would you allow this power

 

Can anyone say " Little kids with sticky fingers." Looking like an action toy is not good.

 

Taking into account that I am still learning the rules. Doesn't he need"Usable on others" on the shrinking to stop him/her from popping back to full size as soon as he leaves the suit and is out of it's shrinking feild. Yes, it's persistant, keeping the suit and it's contents shrunk but if they aren't in it, then how are they still shrunk? (I'm sure that the grammar and punctuation in that sentence is absolutey wrong.)

[JmOz]

Re: Would you allow this power

 

Can anyone say " Little kids with sticky fingers." Looking like an action toy is not good.

 

Taking into account that I am still learning the rules. Doesn't he need"Usable on others" on the shrinking to stop him/her from popping back to full size as soon as he leaves the suit and is out of it's shrinking feild. Yes, it's persistant, keeping the suit and it's contents shrunk but if they aren't in it, then how are they still shrunk? (I'm sure that the grammar and punctuation in that sentence is absolutey wrong.)

 

You would be right if the suit was built with the limitation OIF, however the build is actualy being done with (an also illegal use of, but one I have no problem with) Variable limitation, requiring a -1/2 lim (this is a -1/4 lim), the lims that he will be allowed to choose from are OIF or Always on. This is F/X driven, as the character's always on kicks in only if the armor is taken from him when he is shunk, otherwise it behaves as an OIF. This is a very insightful question for someone leaning the system

[Rapier]

Re: Would you allow this power

 

Can anyone say " Little kids with sticky fingers." Looking like an action toy is not good.

 

Taking into account that I am still learning the rules. Doesn't he need"Usable on others" on the shrinking to stop him/her from popping back to full size as soon as he leaves the suit and is out of it's shrinking feild. Yes, it's persistant, keeping the suit and it's contents shrunk but if they aren't in it, then how are they still shrunk? (I'm sure that the grammar and punctuation in that sentence is absolutey wrong.)

 

Dude, did you fall in the pool.

 

NO...sigh...that's spit. Little kids will put ANYTHING in their mouths.