[Character] Triage

[Killer Shrike]

New PC for my current Champions campaign:

 

Triage

[Doc Samson]

Re: [Character] Triage

 

I like him. Healers can be tremendously effective in a superhero campaign.

[Bloodstone]

Re: [Character] Triage

 

Character has "+3 with Pain Manipulation", but MP is called "Bio Manipulation". Or do the levels on apply with Pain Projection I & II. For that matter, the side effects refer to "Uses A Pain Power".

 

PD and ED are hardened, but Damage Resistance is not. Oversight or intentional? Or perhaps a house rule...

 

Is Only Vs Living Creatures really a valid limitation for the Ego Blast? I ask cause I don't know how you work class of minds in your games.

 

The Megascale Leaping looks out of place for a character that only has 6" of Leaping. It's strange to be able to jump 6m straight up, but if he needs to jump 10m up he has to overshoot by a kilometer. Of course, that could be a kind of amusing visual for a novice hero...

[Killer Shrike]

Re: [Character] Triage

 

Character has "+3 with Pain Manipulation", but MP is called "Bio Manipulation". Or do the levels on apply with Pain Projection I & II. For that matter, the side effects refer to "Uses A Pain Power".

 

PD and ED are hardened, but Damage Resistance is not. Oversight or intentional? Or perhaps a house rule...

 

Is Only Vs Living Creatures really a valid limitation for the Ego Blast? I ask cause I don't know how you work class of minds in your games.

 

The Megascale Leaping looks out of place for a character that only has 6" of Leaping. It's strange to be able to jump 6m straight up, but if he needs to jump 10m up he has to overshoot by a kilometer. Of course, that could be a kind of amusing visual for a novice hero...

 

Good catches; the character evolved...originally was pain based, but as we worked on it last night via IM he became more of a general bio manipulator. Ill go back and adjust the labels.

 

The Hardened -- similar scenario, late adds, missed it on the DR. On the EGO Blast, yes, marginally -- it wouldn't work on "robot" characters built without the actual Automaton rules / machine class of minds; such characters are assumed to be Human Class of minds by default and take Machine Class as a PysLim. Pretty edge case, but eh, it basically applies and its something I let slide in the interests of the character's concept.

 

The MegaScale leaping; the character was initially more brickish, but since the team already has a brick I pushed the player to tone it down and take it in another direction. With the STR Transfer he can get up to 50 STR w/ 10" of leaping, so his leaping does represent his best form of movement. Basically the player pushed back on not having some form of exceptional movement to get around with out of combat, and we couldn't come up with another method, so I let him keep the megascale leap on his base jump. Basically a compromise, or a cookie for the player if you prefer. From an SFX justification, there are aspects of his powers he hasn't explored yet to manipulate his own physiology to superhuman levels, and the Superleap is an example of such an ability. In the future, the character will develop some more "pushing himself to extremes" type abilities.

 

Anyway, what we've got here is a returning player from some past campaigns that's going out of his way to make time for my game, which needs another player badly for team dynamics, so some compromises were made. I know the player well...he's played in 4 or 5 of my past campaigns, and he's more of a roleplayer, and has never once abused a character's abilities in munchkiny ways, so he's got a good deal of "trust" credit built up and I'm more willing to let some things slide since I trust him to not abuse the rules or seek out loop holes.

 

Great catches though, I really appreciate the feedback. Trying to get this character up to speed for play on Saturday and under tight time constraints, so it really helped a lot.

 

Thanks!

[CourtFool]

Re: [Character] Triage

 

If I remember correctly, Megascale is Non-Combat movement by default. However, how about Extra Time to represent him 'enhancing' his own muscles to make the leap?

[Killer Shrike]

Re: [Character] Triage

 

If I remember correctly' date=' Megascale is Non-Combat movement by default. However, how about Extra Time to represent him 'enhancing' his own muscles to make the leap?[/quote']

 

Yes, MegaScale is "Non Combat". We could apply Extra Time, but a) it wont reduce the cost at all since its already 1pt, and it wont matter because it should be getting used outside of combat time anyway. "You jump to the next place the plot needs you to be. Ill let you know when you get there."

[Killer Shrike]

Re: [Character] Triage

 

Picture up.

[Comic]

Re: [Character] Triage

 

Doesn't the Megascale on leaping in this case need another (+1/2) to allow the leaping to be used without it? Am I misreading/misremembering this?

[Hyper-Man]

Re: [Character] Triage

 

Doesn't the Megascale on leaping in this case need another (+1/2) to allow the leaping to be used without it? Am I misreading/misremembering this?

 

If the Advantage was purchased as part of a Power you would be partially* correct. However, this character has the purchased the Megascale Advantage as a naked modifier which can be activated separately from the ability that it modifies. Note it's own END cost.

 

*I believe the effect you are referring to is Can Be Scaled Down.

 

Example:

35 Mega Flight: Flight 10", MegaScale (1" = 10 km; +1/2), Can Be Scaled Down 1" = 1km (+1/4) (35 Active Points) - END=3

[Vorsch]

Re: [Character] Triage

 

Dosent it bother anyone that for 1 pt you can leap 6km in one phase, Instant escape if nothing else?

Also i think i would rule it permanent on your leap, ie you always have to use it.

 

I like the character apart from that, but no way on the Mega-Leap.

 

And lendable might seams prices wrong. This is a naked advatage at +3/4 on str 40, so 30AP with a -4lim gives 6 points.

Uses of this power reduces your str by 40 and costs 30end per phase, and they lose the str when you stop paying end.

[Hyper-Man]

Re: [Character] Triage

 

...

 

And lendable might seams prices wrong. This is a naked advatage at +3/4 on str 40, so 30AP with a -4lim gives 6 points.

Uses of this power reduces your str by 40 and costs 30end per phase, and they lose the str when you stop paying end.

 

Not really,

 

The Lendable Might is priced exactly right.

 

3 Lendable Might: Usable By Other (+1/4) for up to 40 Active Points of STR, Ranged (+1/2) (15 Active Points); Increased Endurance Cost (x10 END; -4) - END=10

 

Only the Usable By Others Advantage is being applied to the active points of STR (40 in this case). The Ranged Advantage is then just being applied to the Naked Modifier: Usable By Other (which has a base active points of 10 to begin with).

[Comic]

Re: [Character] Triage

 

I'm iffy on the whole "naked advantage gets separate advantages and runs optionally" issue, especially when the advantage is on something that is part of a complex.

 

If I had 5" of Flight (10 AP), Megascale (+1/4, 12 AP total) , I could fly distances of 1 km, 2 km, 3 km, 4 km, or 5 km. To get "can be scaled down" costs more (+1/4, 15 AP total) but you still have the same distances. I don't have the book handy, but I believe it's another advantage on top of this to scale down below mega and/or turn it off (+1/2?, 20 AP total), and that END has to be payed for using the power at the fully advantaged AP level (2 END/Phase to travel 1"-5", 1 END/Phase to travel 1 km - 5 km).

 

Buying the same thing as the power and the naked advantage separately costs 8? pts less, and one less END/Phase, which seems wrong somehow.

 

Similarly, if I bought Density Increase, and somehow convinced my GM to let me put Usable By Others on the Knockback Resistance (only) of the Density Increase (to simulate my gravitic field, I suppose), then that's one thing, since UBO is targeted. Suppose I made it Usable By Others Only, as a naked advantage. Would I have the option of using the advantage some of the time only? I don't believe that would be balanced.

 

In the past, when building advantages on parts of complex powers, my groups have usually paid the advantage on the base power, and then scaled it back by a bit. So the megascale price would be payed on the full Strength (30 AP, +1 total advantage, +30 AP), and then reduced (I'd argue this is about a -1 limitation, so total price of the naked advantage would be 15 CP), instead of on the leaping (6, +1 total advantage, +6 CP).

 

Then again, I'm not the GM in your campaign, so it's not my call.

[Nekkidcarpenter]

Re: [Character] Triage

 

I thought of a pain based power for another character that you might like. The special effect is that of increasing already existing pain caused to a character.

 

2d6 NND (Defense is hardened mental Def, having a machine mind or otherwise immune to pain), usable by others, indirect, linked to attack, only does damage to when character takes stun from another attack.

 

This should also increase the chance of stunning an enemy, and if you increase the number of people its usable by the extra damage can add up fast.

[Hyper-Man]

Re: [Character] Triage

 

I'm iffy on the whole "naked advantage gets separate advantages and runs optionally" issue, especially when the advantage is on something that is part of a complex.

 

If I had 5" of Flight (10 AP), Megascale (+1/4, 12 AP total) , I could fly distances of 1 km, 2 km, 3 km, 4 km, or 5 km. To get "can be scaled down" costs more (+1/4, 15 AP total) but you still have the same distances. I don't have the book handy, but I believe it's another advantage on top of this to scale down below mega and/or turn it off (+1/2?, 20 AP total), and that END has to be payed for using the power at the fully advantaged AP level (2 END/Phase to travel 1"-5", 1 END/Phase to travel 1 km - 5 km).

 

Buying the same thing as the power and the naked advantage separately costs 8? pts less, and one less END/Phase, which seems wrong somehow.

 

Similarly, if I bought Density Increase, and somehow convinced my GM to let me put Usable By Others on the Knockback Resistance (only) of the Density Increase (to simulate my gravitic field, I suppose), then that's one thing, since UBO is targeted. Suppose I made it Usable By Others Only, as a naked advantage. Would I have the option of using the advantage some of the time only? I don't believe that would be balanced.

 

In the past, when building advantages on parts of complex powers, my groups have usually paid the advantage on the base power, and then scaled it back by a bit. So the megascale price would be payed on the full Strength (30 AP, +1 total advantage, +30 AP), and then reduced (I'd argue this is about a -1 limitation, so total price of the naked advantage would be 15 CP), instead of on the leaping (6, +1 total advantage, +6 CP).

 

Then again, I'm not the GM in your campaign, so it's not my call.

 

You might want to take a look at USPD and consider getting a copy of Hero Designer. All of these builds have been done in accordance with examples from the former and actually with the latter which is current to 5er rules.

 

40 example: Multipower, 40-point reserve - END=

4u 1) 1st Gear: Flight 20" (40 Active Points) - END=4

4u 2) 2nd Gear: Flight 15", Position Shift, x4 Noncombat (40 Active Points) - END=4

4u 3) Variable Movement: Flight 10", Variable Advantage (+1/2 Advantages; +1) (40 Active Points) - END=4

4u 4) Mega Movement: Flight 10", MegaScale (1" = 100 km; +3/4), Can Be Scaled Down 1" = 1km (+1/4) (40 Active Points) - END=4

 

Note that the Variable Movement slot can achieve 1"=10 Km Megascale by default and doesn't need the Can Be Scaled Down part since that is covered by the Variable Advantage itself. The cost of Megascale is usually not the real issue most people have with it. It's the apparent functionality which is can seem like a game breaker to some regardless of the points being paid for it. That's fine but if that's the case they should make express that reason instead of too low a cost as the reason for not allowing it.

 

60 example 2: Multipower, 60-point reserve - END=

6u 1) Density Increase (409,600 kg mass, +60 STR, +12 PD/ED, -12" KB) (60 Active Points) - END=6

6u 2) Density Increase (25,600 kg mass, +40 STR, +8 PD/ED, -8" KB), Usable Simultaneously (up to 2 people at once; +1/2) (60 Active Points) [Notes: No Range by default.] - END=6

6u 3) Density Increase (6,400 kg mass, +30 STR, +6 PD/ED, -6" KB), Usable Simultaneously (up to 2 people at once; +1/2), Ranged (+1/2) (60 Active Points) [Notes: Ranged but only vs. willing target.] - END=6

6u 4) Density Increase (1,600 kg mass, +20 STR, +4 PD/ED, -4" KB), Ranged (+1/2), Area Of Effect (One Hex; +1/2), Usable As Attack (+1) (60 Active Points) - END=6

 

The Usable By Other Advantage is one of the most often misunderstood abilities in HERO imo. It has many flavors and their effects are quite different from one another.

[Vorsch]

Re: [Character] Triage

 

Triage has no reason to be able to jump 6km.

 

Plus ever character i make could have the same for 1-3 points

 

Now maybe its rules leagal but would you serioulsy let any character spend 1pt for what is effectivly 50pt of NCM leaping?

[Hyper-Man]

Re: [Character] Triage

 

Triage has no reason to be able to jump 6km.

 

Plus ever character i make could have the same for 1-3 points

 

Now maybe its rules leagal but would you serioulsy let any character spend 1pt for what is effectivly 50pt of NCM leaping?

 

I don't see the problem for a low powered Brick. But I could see any character type taking this type of ability if the player really wanted it. And it doesn't have to be tied to the character's Leaping either.

 

1 Movement at the Speed of Plot!: Teleportation 1", MegaScale (1" = 10 km; +1/2), Can Be Scaled Down 1" = 1km (+1/4) (3 Active Points); Must Pass Through Intervening Space (-1/4), Only When In Contact With The Ground (-1/4), Extra Time (Delayed Phase, -1/4), Concentration (1/2 DCV; -1/4) - END=1

[Comic]

Re: [Character] Triage

 

You might want to take a look at USPD and consider getting a copy of Hero Designer. All of these builds have been done in accordance with examples from the former and actually with the latter which is current to 5er rules.

 

40 example: Multipower, 40-point reserve - END=

4u 1) 1st Gear: Flight 20" (40 Active Points) - END=4

4u 2) 2nd Gear: Flight 15", Position Shift, x4 Noncombat (40 Active Points) - END=4

4u 3) Variable Movement: Flight 10", Variable Advantage (+1/2 Advantages; +1) (40 Active Points) - END=4

4u 4) Mega Movement: Flight 10", MegaScale (1" = 100 km; +3/4), Can Be Scaled Down 1" = 1km (+1/4) (40 Active Points) - END=4

 

Note that the Variable Movement slot can achieve 1"=10 Km Megascale by default and doesn't need the Can Be Scaled Down part since that is covered by the Variable Advantage itself. The cost of Megascale is usually not the real issue most people have with it. It's the apparent functionality which is can seem like a game breaker to some regardless of the points being paid for it. That's fine but if that's the case they should make express that reason instead of too low a cost as the reason for not allowing it.

 

60 example 2: Multipower, 60-point reserve - END=

6u 1) Density Increase (409,600 kg mass, +60 STR, +12 PD/ED, -12" KB) (60 Active Points) - END=6

6u 2) Density Increase (25,600 kg mass, +40 STR, +8 PD/ED, -8" KB), Usable Simultaneously (up to 2 people at once; +1/2) (60 Active Points) [Notes: No Range by default.] - END=6

6u 3) Density Increase (6,400 kg mass, +30 STR, +6 PD/ED, -6" KB), Usable Simultaneously (up to 2 people at once; +1/2), Ranged (+1/2) (60 Active Points) [Notes: Ranged but only vs. willing target.] - END=6

6u 4) Density Increase (1,600 kg mass, +20 STR, +4 PD/ED, -4" KB), Ranged (+1/2), Area Of Effect (One Hex; +1/2), Usable As Attack (+1) (60 Active Points) - END=6

 

The Usable By Other Advantage is one of the most often misunderstood abilities in HERO imo. It has many flavors and their effects are quite different from one another.

 

We're in complete agreement on all points, if I'm following correctly.

 

Hero Designer is alread very high on my wish list!

 

The two multipower builds, I'm quite comfortable with. But they're multipowers, not naked advantages.

 

And I fully agree, cost should never be the whole of an objection, nor a valid one.

 

While very low or very high costs for effects can be a warning flag that there may be an issue, generally the RAW have taken into account balance fairly well. So, for example, megascale swinging or superleap can get a person very far, very fast, very cheaply both for CP and END. But you need tall buildings to swing from (unless you're Moonswinger, a PC I don't want to talk about) for the first, or have to worry about targeting your hex and being stuck in midair without control for the second.

 

It's not just the Speed-of-Plot, it's the Aim-of-Plot and the Immune-to-Downsides-of-Plot that trouble me about this particular point.

 

I love the Triage concept and overall character. I'm just quibbling over the details of how the build works in this one small area.

[SCUBA Hero]

Re: [Character] Triage

 

Killer Shrike,

 

I think there might be a problem with Lendable Might; Triage doesn't *have* 40 STR to lend (unless the GM rules that Triage goes to -10 STR when using Lendable Might).

 

You could buy some STR only with Lendable Might, or make the Power Usable Simultaneously (if the intent was for Triage to maintain his own STR while using Lendable Might), or some combination of the two.

 

I like the character.

[Killer Shrike]

Re: [Character] Triage

 

Killer Shrike,

 

I think there might be a problem with Lendable Might; Triage doesn't *have* 40 STR to lend (unless the GM rules that Triage goes to -10 STR when using Lendable Might).

 

You could buy some STR only with Lendable Might, or make the Power Usable Simultaneously (if the intent was for Triage to maintain his own STR while using Lendable Might), or some combination of the two.

 

I like the character.

 

He does however have Transfer STR to STR, and can get up to 50 STR at max effect. He can lend as much as he has, up to 40 STR. He does not maintain the STR himself while lending it, and it tires him greatly to do so.

 

4u 3) Life Tap III: Transfer 3d6+1 (standard effect: 10 points) (STR to STR), Can Transfer Maximum Of 20 Points, Delayed Return Rate (points return at the rate of 5 per Minute; +1/4), Delayed Return Rate (Points Gained) points return at the rate of 5 per Minute (+1/4) (76 Active Points); Side Effects, Side Effect occurs automatically whenever Power is used (Triage Takes 1d6 Normal Damage Each Time He Uses A Bio Power (Count Body As Well); -1/2), Only vs Living Creatures (-1/4)

Notes: 10 STR per use / Max 20 STR

8

 

 

 

I like the idea of the power myself; it is an odd but potentially powerful "signature" ability (meaning something you are unlikely to see on another character). However with a 70 STR brick on the team it might prove to be too good. We'll have to see how often it comes up. It does have some difficult contingencies around it, so I'm willing to give it its day in court.

[Killer Shrike]

Re: [Character] Triage

 

I'm iffy on the whole "naked advantage gets separate advantages and runs optionally" issue, especially when the advantage is on something that is part of a complex.

...

Then again, I'm not the GM in your campaign, so it's not my call.

 

Well, the character uses NPA's legally, and it is priced correctly in accordance with the rules. Of course, if you don't like NPA's than thats another matter all together.

 

Personally I like NPA's in theory, dislike some of the ramifications in practice. However, in many cases it is the most direct and cleanest way of accomplishing a particular ends. In general I prefer for NPA's to only be valid if they themselves have some disadvantage on their use that requires them to be separate from the base power, but then you get into the case of 1/2 END on X STR, and similar scenarios where that doesn't necessarily make sense.

 

 

In this particular characters case, I have no problems with Lendable Might at all. I think its perfectly reasonable and in interesting "quirk" of the character -- exactly the kind of distinctive touch I like to see. So many characters are just cookie cutter assembly line pressed piles of boring, so I really appreciate cool little twists like that.

 

I'm not happy about the MegaScale leaping either, flat out. It made total sense on the original version of the character, and "fit" that build perfectly, but as the build morphed it stuck around. In the end though, on a scale of 1 to 10, with 1 being it doesn't matter at all and 10 being its not entering play until its gone even if it means loosing the player, I'm around a 4 or a 5. I would prefer to see it gone, but I can live with it, and I'll just make up for it by holding the player to the commitment to explore other "extreme physiology" developments in future with some of their experience if they don't follow up on it as they indicated they would.

 

Sometimes you gotta know when something matters enough to argue about it, and pick your battles. Sure I could say "NO", and I very often do if I think an ability really matters and will disrupt things (just ask my players...they've all gotten hard NO's on things before...one of the current crop recently had to go thru three separate characters before we could arrive at one we could both live with).

 

So...will 6" of megascale superleap disrupt my game? No, no it wont. I'd rather have the character with Hulk Jump than not have the character at all, and whatever possible damage the character can cause with the ability if any is very manageable. Thus, I gave it a quirked eyebrow and pursed lips, but let it slide by.

[Killer Shrike]

Re: [Character] Triage

 

In other news, Triage saw his first action today as part of the third session of the Champions of the West campaign.

 

The session was a lot of fun, and though Triage didn't get a tremendous chance to show off, he did make a good impression and contributed to the action very handily.

 

 

I got a rough version of a campaign website up last night for those interested. Its not linked up for general access yet and incomplete, but you can check it out here:

 

Champions Of The West

 

And, no, they aren't calling themselves the "Champions of the West" literally. The group doesnt have a team name yet and I needed to call the campaign something to organize the subsite so that's what I went with as a working Campaign Title. At this point the three PC's (Makeshift, Apex, and Triage) have met and are working together informally but have not yet forged a formal relationship as a team.

[Killer Shrike]

Re: [Character] Triage

 

I thought of a pain based power for another character that you might like. The special effect is that of increasing already existing pain caused to a character.

 

2d6 NND (Defense is hardened mental Def, having a machine mind or otherwise immune to pain), usable by others, indirect, linked to attack, only does damage to when character takes stun from another attack.

 

This should also increase the chance of stunning an enemy, and if you increase the number of people its usable by the extra damage can add up fast.

 

Hey, a fellow Floridian. Sup.

 

Actually...along these lines a possible future power for the character is a "Pain Magnification" that amounts to a Selective Suppress vs CON. By reducing the CON of all enemies in an Area, he basically accomplishes the goal of what you are going after here -- allowing allies to benefit from his power.

 

 

In City of HEROES parlance, Triage is basically a "Defender" with some mild control and blaster aspects, and this sort of ability plays into this. By himself he's weaker than most supers of his points at direct confrontation, but as a force multiplier he makes any team he's on more capable.

 

However, the first order of business for the character is getting Range on at least some of his key abilities, because he can't keep up with the other PC's combat movement.

 

 

I love characters at this stage, where their basic concept is covered, but they still have big weak areas to work on. Once a character gets to what I call the "gravy stage" where more points don't really matter and development is mostly vertical (more power / effect) rather than horizontal (broader power / effect) I lose interest both as a GM and a player.

[SCUBA Hero]

Re: [Character] Triage

 

He does however have Transfer STR to STR' date=' and can get up to 50 STR at max effect. He can lend as much as he has, up to 40 STR. He does not maintain the STR himself while lending it, and it tires him greatly to do so.[/quote']Ah, I missed the Life Tap III - Lendable Might combination. Obviously the concept was well-thought through.