L. Marcus Posted July 25, 2007 Report Share Posted July 25, 2007 Re: The Grand List Of Overuse Science Fiction Cliches People who read science fiction has come to expect creativity from the authors. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mentor Posted July 25, 2007 Report Share Posted July 25, 2007 Re: The Grand List Of Overuse Science Fiction Cliches Sturgeon's Law:D Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Curufea Posted July 26, 2007 Report Share Posted July 26, 2007 Re: The Grand List Of Overuse Science Fiction Cliches Sturgeon's Law:D Yep. It's also weird if people think that scifi should be any different from any other genre. All genres contain clichés. These just happen to be the ones found in scifi. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BobGreenwade Posted July 26, 2007 Report Share Posted July 26, 2007 Re: The Grand List Of Overuse Science Fiction Cliches Yep. It's also weird if people think that scifi should be any different from any other genre. All genres contain clichés. These just happen to be the ones found in scifi. Several years ago a bunch of local high school kids lampooned war movies with a short called "Cliches of War." It actually was quite brilliantly done. That said, I want to write a story (probably in play form, though possibly for film) that utilizes as many of these sci-fi cliches as I can squeeze in. I think it'd be a hoot. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marcus Impudite Posted July 26, 2007 Author Report Share Posted July 26, 2007 Re: The Grand List Of Overuse Science Fiction Cliches That said' date=' I want to write a story (probably in play form, though possibly for film) that utilizes as many of these sci-fi cliches as I can squeeze in. I think it'd be a hoot.[/quote'] If you do, post it here, sounds like it'd be a fun read. Although the list is so long, you'd probably end up with the equivalent of two or more seasons of episodes for a series. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ghost-angel Posted July 27, 2007 Report Share Posted July 27, 2007 Re: The Grand List Of Overuse Science Fiction Cliches People who read science fiction has come to expect creativity from the authors. Sometimes we're just looking for a creative spin on an old idea - i.e. a repackaged cliche. like - The Matrix for instance. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clonus Posted July 27, 2007 Report Share Posted July 27, 2007 Re: The Grand List Of Overuse Science Fiction Cliches Why do you assume character 1 is excessively beefcake and sexually uninhibited? I don't assume it. I observe it. Incredibly competent men of action who are sexually inhibited went out with spats. Now not all of them are bulgy but then I said as much. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Karmakaze Posted July 27, 2007 Report Share Posted July 27, 2007 Re: The Grand List Of Overuse Science Fiction Cliches I don't assume it. I observe it. Incredibly competent men of action who are sexually inhibited went out with spats. Now not all of them are bulgy but then I said as much. You didn't assume it? Really? Let me refresh your memory: The issue I have with this list comes here The incredibly competent man-of-action with more skills/degrees than you can shake a blaster at. The incredibly competent woman-of-action with large breasts, no sexual inhibitions, and more skills/degrees than you can shake a blaster at. These are the same character for all intents and purposes since I assume character 1 also has no sexual inhibitions and frequently has bulging body parts as well. So why is one sexist and the other not? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Fyre Posted July 27, 2007 Report Share Posted July 27, 2007 Re: The Grand List Of Overuse Science Fiction Cliches Sometimes we're just looking for a creative spin on an old idea - i.e. a repackaged cliche. like - The Matrix for instance. Why is it that most of my favorite genre conventions have the "pig" icon next to them? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ghost-angel Posted July 27, 2007 Report Share Posted July 27, 2007 Re: The Grand List Of Overuse Science Fiction Cliches Why is it that most of my favorite genre conventions have the "pig" icon next to them? Because Western Society (especially American Society) likes to let it's inner Puritan control things and repress us in several natural desires. If we taught moderation instead I'm sure many of those piggy icons would be something else or disappear. But this topic is NGD material so we'll avoid it for now and go back to questioning the list. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Fyre Posted July 27, 2007 Report Share Posted July 27, 2007 Re: The Grand List Of Overuse Science Fiction Cliches Because Western Society (especially American Society) likes to let it's inner Puritan control things and repress us in several natural desires. If we taught moderation instead I'm sure many of those piggy icons would be something else or disappear. But this topic is NGD material so we'll avoid it for now and go back to questioning the list. Okay. I thought it was just because I was a sexist pig. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ghost-angel Posted July 27, 2007 Report Share Posted July 27, 2007 Re: The Grand List Of Overuse Science Fiction Cliches Okay. I thought it was just because I was a sexist pig. I won't rule that option out either Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Karmakaze Posted July 27, 2007 Report Share Posted July 27, 2007 Re: The Grand List Of Overuse Science Fiction Cliches Because Western Society (especially American Society) likes to let it's inner Puritan control things and repress us in several natural desires. If we taught moderation instead I'm sure many of those piggy icons would be something else or disappear. But this topic is NGD material so we'll avoid it for now and go back to questioning the list. Also, with a moderation-related issue, the piggy cliche's are often less of an issue in that they appear at all, but that there are so few exceptions that they stop seeming like sloppy characterization and start looking like the writers actually think that's the way people are. Take # 57 ( The intelligent and confident woman who can be bribed with a dress. ) It's not that there are not intelligent and confident women who also like pretty clothes. It's the underlying assumption that "all women like pretty clothes" and "stereotypical female traits automatically outweigh any individual traits a female character might have." Kaylee in Firefly wanting a frilly dress didn't phase me at all; having Samantha Carter of Stargate go giddy about a chance to "tee hee! go shopping!" would have worked less well. [1] So at least a few of the piggy cliches get the piggy for using "female" as a primary personality trait in a way that "male" as a trait generally does not get used. Think of the old-fashioned sentai-type color coding... Blue is the intellectual. Red is the leader. Yellow is the empath. Pink is... the girl. But there's no color for "the boy", even if the cast is more evenly mixed than 4-boys and 1-girl. Was that clear? Ooh, and I have to tale exception to their rejection, here: The ship is crewed by a bunch of white guys. Reason for rejection: Every SF production reflects the society that produced it. For instance, in Japanese SF flicks, most of the characters are Japanese. That doesn't account for the fact that American-produced SF flicks tend to be whiter than the actual American population. [1] Note that both shows were actually pretty good about avoiding some of the more odious gender-based cliches and I used them as an example because they mostly don't offend on that basis. Sure Samantha's uniform inexplicably started including wonderbras and shirts a size small early on, but Daniel's wardrobe inexplicably developed muscle tees too, so there's some ambiguity there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ghost-angel Posted July 27, 2007 Report Share Posted July 27, 2007 Re: The Grand List Of Overuse Science Fiction Cliches What Karmakaze said. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Fyre Posted July 27, 2007 Report Share Posted July 27, 2007 Re: The Grand List Of Overuse Science Fiction Cliches So at least a few of the piggy cliches get the piggy for using "female" as a primary personality trait in a way that "male" as a trait generally does not get used. Think of the old-fashioned sentai-type color coding... Blue is the intellectual. Red is the leader. Yellow is the empath. Pink is... the girl. But there's no color for "the boy", even if the cast is more evenly mixed than 4-boys and 1-girl. Was that clear? Actually, quite clear. That does seem kind of strange, but I never caught the "connection" between color and characterization before. (Never was a big Power Rangers fan anyway.) Also' date=' with a moderation-related issue, the piggy cliche's are often less of an issue in that they appear at all, but that there are so few exceptions that they stop seeming like sloppy characterization and start looking like the writers actually think that's the way people are. [/quote'] Well, for years, Sciene Fiction Movie/TV/Comic Book fans were seen as geeky males, with no meaningful relationships with females (and often honestly, many of us were). I think that is where a lot of these cliches originated from. --- --- --- Now, putting my "Male Chavanist Pig" hat back on - The really important ones are II 4, II 6e, and II 16 (to a less extent II 15). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clonus Posted July 27, 2007 Report Share Posted July 27, 2007 Re: The Grand List Of Overuse Science Fiction Cliches You didn't assume it? Really? Let me refresh your memory: Fine. I assume it because that's generally the case. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SCUBA Hero Posted July 27, 2007 Report Share Posted July 27, 2007 Re: The Grand List Of Overuse Science Fiction Cliches Well' date=' for years, Sciene Fiction Movie/TV/Comic Book fans were seen as geeky males, with no meaningful relationships with females (and often honestly, many of us were).[/quote']Hey! I have been married to SCUBA Heroine for fifteen years now, and, God willing, hope to kiss her soon! Within the next five years, we plan to move out of my mom's basement!!! Oh, and: HAN SOLO SHOT FIRST!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SCUBA Hero Posted July 27, 2007 Report Share Posted July 27, 2007 Re: The Grand List Of Overuse Science Fiction Cliches And, Kirk is the coolest Trek captain EVAR!!!! My hat of pICARD know no limit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Fyre Posted July 27, 2007 Report Share Posted July 27, 2007 Re: The Grand List Of Overuse Science Fiction Cliches Hey! I have been married to SCUBA Heroine for fifteen years now, and, God willing, hope to kiss her soon! Within the next five years, we plan to move out of my mom's basement!!! Oh, and: HAN SOLO SHOT FIRST!!! I have been married for 21 years myself. But, I do not recant my statement. (Go to a comic shop or RPG store, and see why!) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Fyre Posted July 27, 2007 Report Share Posted July 27, 2007 Re: The Grand List Of Overuse Science Fiction Cliches And, Kirk is the coolest Trek captain EVAR!!!! My hate of pICARD knows no limit. Everything was better in the Original Series! (Of course, I am also a big Benjamin Sisko fan . . . ) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SCUBA Hero Posted July 27, 2007 Report Share Posted July 27, 2007 Re: The Grand List Of Overuse Science Fiction Cliches I have been married for 21 years myself. But' date=' I do not recant my statement. [i'](Go to a comic shop or RPG store, and see why!)[/i]I've been to a hobby store, and to gaming/Sci Fi conventions - I know... (There was a great Dork Tower comic on this topic. LOSE THE EARS, ELF-BOY!!!) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ghost-angel Posted July 28, 2007 Report Share Posted July 28, 2007 Re: The Grand List Of Overuse Science Fiction Cliches Everything was better in the Original Series! (Of course, I am also a big Benjamin Sisko fan . . . ) I noticed you corrected the grammar on SCUBA Hero's post. Obviously you haven't frequented RPG.Net. The original phrase is "my hat of d02 know no limit!" It's a very long story, but SCUBA's grammar is, in fact, correct in this instance. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SCUBA Hero Posted July 29, 2007 Report Share Posted July 29, 2007 Re: The Grand List Of Overuse Science Fiction Cliches Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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