Help with Power: Regen as Armor

[Jaxom]

I have a concept, I do not have a build. I am looking for suggestions about how to legeally combine these two powers to get the concept right.

 

Concept is a character who can regen so fast that it acts as armor during the segment he is hit. If he uses it as armor, he does not get the regen for that segment. Think Wolverine without the adamantite... He's not extra tough, no special resistances unless he puts on a flak-vest. But he heals so fast that if he gets punched once per segment he doesn't even get stunned.

 

Like I said, I have not built it, but the powers I am thinking of would be a combination of Healing (Regeneration) bought to the segment level (armor every segment, not only on my phases, if that is even possible) and armors with custom limitations. The limitations would be similar to the standard "Armor only up to the amount rolled for Absorption" limit which is, as I recall, a -1 but might vary by GM decision since it would be only once per segment unlike Absorption which I believe can be used on every attack in the same segment. The regen would have a similar but inverted limit, "only up to the amount not used as armor".

 

In the end, I may find I am too limited by Active Point caps but since this is superheroic I figured I'd ask for ideas and see what people could suggest so I could push some numbers around and see what I could make of it.

[Doc Samson]

Re: Help with Power: Regen as Armor

 

This question pops up from time to time. I usually duplicate this effect with Regeneration and alot of Recovery with the Gradual Effect Limitation.

 

For example: "36 REC (72 APs), Gradual Effect [1 Turn] (-1/4)" would yield 3 STUN and END every segment. You might also include a -0 Limitation, "Only for Post-segment 12 Recoveries" so that taking recovery actions and recovering BODY don't become over complicated.

 

You obviously want to have some level of standard defenses but do not underestimate this power. Even a few points per segment can reverse the damage from multiple attacks over the course of a turn.

[pinecone]

Re: Help with Power: Regen as Armor

 

I've done things simular to this a few times...

 

My fav build is Regen, some

Armor 5 def or so, Invis if the GM finds it nessisary

Damage reduction 1/2, both PDr and EDr

 

I could see your paticular take as Regen, and or simple healing, and Armor, not if healing/Regen activated....if you get missed a Trigger could activate your healing, otherwise your armor is up and active..

 

Absorb Stun and Body +1/2, with linked armor is a clean build also...not exactly what you describe...but easy to use, and a real tough defense when combined with Armor linked to the absorb.....

 

I suggest you play around with it a bit ...and see which one you like....

[Dust Raven]

Re: Help with Power: Regen as Armor

 

I usually just by the character Armor (usually Hardened) and be done with it. "Instant Regeneration" is what I call it, but I usually also buy typical regen using Healing as well. This works to simulate regen threshold which is measured on a impact/blow/get hurt basis rather than a time basis. Doesn't matter how often he gets stabbed, just how badly he gets stabbed.

[Sean Waters]

Re: Help with Power: Regen as Armor

 

Built this kind of thing with Damage Reduction 3/4.

 

Target takes 40 stun and 10 Body, goes down to 10 stuna nd 2 Bdy with sfx that the damage tha is reduced is 'instantly regenerated'.

 

Seemed to work well.

[Outsider]

Re: Help with Power: Regen as Armor

 

I've done something similar with Armor, IPE. It looks like he's taking damage, but he's really not. The difference being that in my version the apparent damage doesnt immediately disappear.

[JmOz]

Re: Help with Power: Regen as Armor

 

For concept I would say buy both regen and armor, get both powers at the same time, but for your request

 

It is a MP, one slot armor, the other regen

[Jaxom]

Re: Help with Power: Regen as Armor

 

I'm less concerned about the defenses and more concerned about the right flavor and feel.

 

I could easily build a viable character taking powers and building special effects on after the fact... What I am after is something that fits the special effects.

 

The character doesn't really have any defenses. He just regenerates so fast that it becomes hard to stun him on his feet for any meaningful lenth of time (even a second). For the concept I have in mind I would normally just buy my regen and be done with it, but since he is supposed to be brickish in nature, the rules will require that he has defenses or he'll spend his life being stunned on his feet. So approaching the build the question is more what do I add to regeneration to provide the appearance of armor/defenses in proportion to and in place of the regen if it gets used?

 

Don't get me wrong, the suggestions here are certainly valid builds... They just don't seem, to me, to link well to the regeneration and the idea that if I get hit and spend my regeneration not being stunned by the punch this segment then I don't get to take regen as well.

[Chris Goodwin]

Re: Help with Power: Regen as Armor

 

I once built a guy with this concept. 4th edition, so he didn't have options I would have added had they existed. 5 BODY/Turn Regeneration, 5 rDEF Armor, 5 Power Defense, 50% Resistant Physical and Energy Damage Reduction, +10 BODY, Only Vs. Death.

 

I'm pretty sure the 5 BODY Regeneration was overkill.

[SableWyvern]

Re: Help with Power: Regen as Armor

 

Slight Tangent: Two people in this thread have mentioned adding Invisible Power Effect to Armour. Isn't Armour already invisible (being an innately 0-End power)?

[Hyper-Man]

Re: Help with Power: Regen as Armor

 

Slight Tangent: Two people in this thread have mentioned adding Invisible Power Effect to Armour. Isn't Armour already invisible (being an innately 0-End power)?

 

Yep.

 

Probably just another case of the the special effect armor getting confused with the HERO power Armor.

[Hyper-Man]

Re: Help with Power: Regen as Armor

 

I usually just by the character Armor (usually Hardened) and be done with it. "Instant Regeneration" is what I call it' date=' but I usually also buy typical regen using Healing as well. This works to simulate regen threshold which is measured on a impact/blow/get hurt basis rather than a time basis. Doesn't matter how often he gets stabbed, just how badly he gets stabbed.[/quote']

 

This is probably the easiest way to go.

[Hyper-Man]

Re: Help with Power: Regen as Armor

 

 

Don't get me wrong, the suggestions here are certainly valid builds... They just don't seem, to me, to link well to the regeneration and the idea that if I get hit and spend my regeneration not being stunned by the punch this segment then I don't get to take regen as well.

 

The problem your going to run into with trying to build this effect as switching between Regeneration and some type of defense(s) via a Multipower or some other method is when the character gets hit so hard that the damage exceeds the defenses. What controls the switch between the 2 abilities? If it's a conscious action he's screwed as he'll be stuck in defense mode instead of Regeneration mode.

[Outsider]

Re: Help with Power: Regen as Armor

 

Armor is already invisible, but the fact that an armored target didn't take damage when you shot him isnt. If you want to hide the fact that a character is armored (even after he's been hit and 'should' have taken damage) or simulate hyperpfast regeneration where the target appears to take damage that immediately fades, how would you do it, other than re-interpreting the IPE rules a smidge?

 

 

Its the difference between :

 

"Saaaay... I just shot that perfectly normal looking guy right in the face, but he's not even got a scratch! I won't be shooting him again, since it obviously does nothing to him!"

 

and

 

"I just shot that guy in the face! What a mess! But he's still fighting. Pretty tough guy, but I can wear him down since my gun is obviously hurting him!"

[Sean Waters]

Re: Help with Power: Regen as Armor

 

Interesting point but I'm not sure it is necessary. Even someone with armour who is hit may take damage, and an armoured character who's armour entirely deflects the damage might still react to a hit. The 'almost instant regeneration' thing is just sfx, and I don't think it is a particularly unbalancing one - not so much that I'd require IPE, but a good point to consider anyway.

 

On topic, IMO you will never be able to afford enough recovery/regen to actually work as armour - any you will wind up getting stunned a lot.

 

However, armour, even hardened, does not do it for me (unless you are JUST after protection from Body damage, and even then it is not perfect). Although it is relatively expensive, damage reduction does a far better job because it does not matter what the build or sfx of the attack are, the damage is reduced - even NND attacks - and, logically, if the sfx is regen, then all damage (apart from, perhaps, certain sfx) should 'heal'.

[Vondy]

Re: Help with Power: Regen as Armor

 

In general I just buy resistant defenses to a certain level and call it "fast regeneration." The slower, longer term recovery from "catastrophic damage" can be handled by also buying the actual regeneration power. Another way to do it would be damage reduction defined as "fast regeneration."

[Dust Raven]

Re: Help with Power: Regen as Armor

 

Its the difference between :

 

"Saaaay... I just shot that perfectly normal looking guy right in the face, but he's not even got a scratch! I won't be shooting him again, since it obviously does nothing to him!"

 

and

 

"I just shot that guy in the face! What a mess! But he's still fighting. Pretty tough guy, but I can wear him down since my gun is obviously hurting him!"

 

That would not be a product of IPE on Armor, but the SFX of the armor and the conclusion of those watching. Functionally, and even based upon appearance, there is no difference between bullets bouncing off someone and them not being affected by that and bullets ripping through someone and then not being affected by that. Ultimately, they at just not affected.

[Jaxom]

Re: Help with Power: Regen as Armor

 

The problem your going to run into with trying to build this effect as switching between Regeneration and some type of defense(s) via a Multipower or some other method is when the character gets hit so hard that the damage exceeds the defenses. What controls the switch between the 2 abilities? If it's a conscious action he's screwed as he'll be stuck in defense mode instead of Regeneration mode.

 

This is exactly what I am trying to figure out to a T. All of the builds here are perfectly valid but don't hit the heart of this issue I am after which is to properly model a very specific effect...

 

If I can regen 5 points of body (and in theory 15 points of stun at the same time). Then how do I build the actual powers in such a way that I can, without conscious action (i.e. on every segment including those where I have no action) protect from (armor) or repair (regen) exactly 5 total points of Body and 15 total points of Stun?

 

And that should include the case where I get shot once for 3 Body and 18 Stun resulting in a net loss of 3 Stun and regeneration of 2 Body.

 

 

I know I can build similar effects, but is there a legal power build that results in the above numerical effect which is the correct modeling of the special effect I desire?

[Sean Waters]

Re: Help with Power: Regen as Armor

 

I do agree that sfx have to be carefully monitored to prevent misuse, but in this instance, I'm not sure it is too much of an issue:

 

SFX (armour) (assuming some damage gets through) - your blow crashes into him bloodying his lip, but he only hesitates a moment before coming right back at you...

 

SFX (regen) - your blow snaps his head back, tearing open his lips, but the flesh almost instantly seals again, leaving just a trickle of blood. He grins and comes right back at you...

 

So long as the GM is making it obvious enough how effective an attack is being (or how ineffective) I don't seee a real problem.

[Hyper-Man]

Re: Help with Power: Regen as Armor

 

This is exactly what I am trying to figure out to a T. All of the builds here are perfectly valid but don't hit the heart of this issue I am after which is to properly model a very specific effect...

 

If I can regen 5 points of body (and in theory 15 points of stun at the same time). Then how do I build the actual powers in such a way that I can, without conscious action (i.e. on every segment including those where I have no action) protect from (armor) or repair (regen) exactly 5 total points of Body and 15 total points of Stun?

 

And that should include the case where I get shot once for 3 Body and 18 Stun resulting in a net loss of 3 Stun and regeneration of 2 Body.

 

 

I know I can build similar effects, but is there a legal power build that results in the above numerical effect which is the correct modeling of the special effect I desire?

 

Anything can be modeled, just not necessarily in an affordable way.

 

Here is a legal but expensive way to model your regeneration sfx:

 

135 He Heals Quick!: Healing BODY 4d6 (standard effect: 12 points), Can Heal Limbs, Reduced Endurance (0 END; +1/2), Persistent (+1/2), [two powers] simultaneously (BODY & STUN; +1/2), Continuous (+1), Trigger (Activating the Trigger is an Action that takes no time, Trigger resets automatically, immediately after it activates, Character does not control activation of personal Trigger, Two activation conditions apply simultaneously; Any time character takes STUN or BODY; +1), Decreased Re-use Duration (1 Turn; +1 1/2) (270 Active Points); Always On (-1/2), Self Only (-1/2)

[Notes: This power will give the character 12 STUN and 6 BODY each time the character takes BODY or STUN damage. However, it requires individual attacks to be tracked separately. Example: if character is hit twice on phase 2 and takes 1 BODY/15 STUN and 3 BODY/20 STUN respectively he gets to apply the healing to each attack ONCE but not again for 1 turn (not even post phase 12 Recovery). If the character takes 9 STUN on phase 3 he can apply 9 points of healing towards it but will still be down 11 STUN from the excess from phase 2. Rinse and repeat. ] - END=0

 

edit,

 

The Continuous Advantage is not necessary since the power has the Self Only Limitation.

Here is the update:

 

112 He Heals Quick!: Healing BODY 4d6 (standard effect: 12 points), Can Heal Limbs, Reduced Endurance (0 END; +1/2), Persistent (+1/2), [two powers] simultaneously (BODY & STUN; +1/2), Trigger (Activating the Trigger is an Action that takes no time, Trigger resets automatically, immediately after it activates, Character does not control activation of personal Trigger, Two activation conditions apply simultaneously; Any time character takes STUN or BODY; +1), Decreased Re-use Duration (1 Turn; +1 1/2) (225 Active Points); Always On (-1/2), Self Only (-1/2) [Notes: This power will give the character 12 STUN and 6 BODY each time the character takes BODY or STUN damage. However, it requires individual attacks to be tracked separately. Example: if character is hit twice on phase 2 and takes 1 BODY/15 STUN and 3 BODY/20 STUN respectively he gets to apply the healing to each attack ONCE but not again for 1 turn (not even post phase 12 Recovery). If the character takes 9 STUN on phase 3 he can apply 9 points of healing towards it but will still be down 11 STUN from the excess from phase 2. Rinse and repeat.] - END=0

[Hyper-Man]

Re: Help with Power: Regen as Armor

 

Also, Healing damage the same phase it occurs is not going to keep the character from suffering the effects of getting stunned if the pre-healing damage exceeds his CON.

 

Instead of using the Armor power you could use Absorption with Usable as a Defense that feeds his Healing power.

 

example:

 

40 The more damage he takes, the faster he heals!: Absorption 4d6 (standard effect: 12 points) (physical, He Heals Quickly!), Absorption As A Defense (x2) (40 Active Points) [Notes: (The Ultimate Brick, page 35) If the GM wants to simplify how Absorption works as a defense, double the cost with this multiplier and have the total rolled on the dice count as both PD and ED which the character can apply against any attack he Absorbs that Phase.] - END=0

[Chris Goodwin]

Re: Help with Power: Regen as Armor

 

If I can regen 5 points of body (and in theory 15 points of stun at the same time). Then how do I build the actual powers in such a way that I can' date=' without conscious action (i.e. on every segment including those where I have no action) protect from (armor) or repair (regen) exactly 5 total points of Body and 15 total points of Stun?[/quote']

 

The repair part comes to 60 BODY Regeneration + 180 REC, Gradual Effect: One Turn.

 

Yes, it's expensive.

 

The protect part is easy: Armor: 5 PD, 5 ED plus 10 PD + 10 ED.

[Sean Waters]

Re: Help with Power: Regen as Armor

 

...and even if you do buy enough regeneration and REC to cover the 60/180 points you need, it is not going to prevent you spending all your time stunned. I mean, 180 REC is 360 points, so you're going to have to be selling characteristics back even before you start on the regeneration

 

Hyperman's absorbtion build is a more reasonably priced build but will still run into point caps, and may well not fit your sfx well as he has to be hit to heal.

[Dust Raven]

Re: Help with Power: Regen as Armor

 

This is exactly what I am trying to figure out to a T. All of the builds here are perfectly valid but don't hit the heart of this issue I am after which is to properly model a very specific effect...

 

If I can regen 5 points of body (and in theory 15 points of stun at the same time). Then how do I build the actual powers in such a way that I can, without conscious action (i.e. on every segment including those where I have no action) protect from (armor) or repair (regen) exactly 5 total points of Body and 15 total points of Stun?

 

And that should include the case where I get shot once for 3 Body and 18 Stun resulting in a net loss of 3 Stun and regeneration of 2 Body.

 

 

I know I can build similar effects, but is there a legal power build that results in the above numerical effect which is the correct modeling of the special effect I desire?

 

This is gonna be expensive, and I'm not afraid to say abusive. You're looking at a character who can recover 60 BODY and 180 STUN per TURN. Keep in mind the STUN recovery alone is worth 360 points (Active)! Granted, this cost may be reduced somewhat with a Limitation "Not For Damage Stopped By Armor Per Segment" which I would personally value at a -0, but maybe a -1/4. The don't get hurt part is easy, cheaper, but also amazingly abusive: Armor 5/5 plus Armor +10/+10 Only Versus STUN.

 

Of course, expensive and abusive can be a good thing, but only if it's really what you want.

 

Oh, as for the build for the Regen part, simply buy a 180 REC and however much Healing (Regen) you need to recover 60 per Turn.

[Dust Raven]

Re: Help with Power: Regen as Armor

 

I should stop posting at work, where it takes me an hour to type a post...