Heroes

[Netzilla]

Re: Heroes

 

Which was something that I found confusing. Why couldn't Peter just fly himself away? Was the power just supposed to be too overwhelming.

 

I suspect that Peter can only use a single power at a time (at least, I don't recall him using 2 at once at any point). Since he couldn't turn the nuclear reaction off, he couldn't turn the flight on.

 

And let's not fool ourselves... there was no sacrificing themselves for NY. They will both be back on the series next season.

 

Pete I'm almost sure will be back. I don't recall any evidence of the original nuclear man (who's name I'm blanking on) being harmed by his own abilities. So, Pete just needs to be able to survive the fall. Either he switches his flight on, or he goes unconscious after exploding and the default regen slot kicks in.

 

Nathan's return is more iffy, but also possible. We don't know just how fast he can fly, but if he took Pete a few miles up and just let go, Pete would continue to ascend for a bit just because of momentum. If Nathan could fly away fast enough, he might have gotten out of danger. The main problems with that possibility are, how could Nathan have known when it was safe to drop him thus timing everything properly and the radiation burns he'd receive while carrying his overloading brother.

 

Maybe that is the part of the finale that just doesn't ring true to me. There didn't seem to any real danger... real sacrifice. Sylar was stabbed but survived. Parkman was shot but he'll survive. DL was shot but will survive. The Petrellis will be back. Mind you, I'm not saying that I want the characters to die, but it feels too much like a comic book where there is no investment in the danger because no one ever pays the real price.

 

*shrug* The original nuke guy is definitely dead. Others will have to go on the lamb: Clair, her father, and possibly Parkman are going to be hunted by the shadow organization. Nikki & family should still have police problems. Fairly dire straights to start off season two with.

 

Plus, the only characters involved in the final batle was Hiro and Nikki. I liked Nikki coming over and involving herself... even if it is just for a moment.

 

I was a little disappointed that when it came time for Pete to step up, he choked. With the promise that the future Pete vs future Sylar showdown set up, it would have been cool to see at least a little of it. Pure testosterony fun, but could have caused budget problems to do right not to mention the story complication of there probably not being any good way of hiding their fight from the general public if it went on for too long.

 

Again... I loved the series so the criticism is from a desire to see the best story possible.

 

Probably my favorite show from last season. Top 3 definitely.

[StGrimblefig]

Re: Heroes

 

Linderman (the gangster with the green thumb?) is also quite dead.

 

There are a few scenarios by which Nathan could have survived, but the writers chose to leave it ambiguous. Like a good cliffhanger in a two-part comic book story. They get to reveal the results in the next issue (and, knowing these writers, they will draw it out for a couple of episodes).

 

 

I find it quite interesting that the Heroes web site has a link to a "research foundation" site (headed by Hiro's father, no less) that has a series of short videos detailing the story of the original owner of Hiro's sword. Since Hiro found himself in exactly that time period at the end of the finale, I expect he will be spending some time there and have some influence upon that story before returning. Ando, on the other hand, has no idea what has happened to his friend. It will be interesting to see how he deals with this.

[rjcurrie]

Re: Heroes

 

Which was something that I found confusing. Why couldn't Peter just fly himself away? Was the power just supposed to be too overwhelming.

 

Didn't Peter say something about not being able to do anything? If not, it seemed pretty clear he was doing everything possible to keep from exploding. He may have simply felt that he couldn't try to concentrate on doing something else. Remember Peter has to make the emotional connection in his mind to use a power.

 

And let's not fool ourselves... there was no sacrificing themselves for NY. They will both be back on the series next season.

 

While that appears to be the case, Nathan the character does not know that he is not making a sacrifice. And even if he is not making a physical sacrifice, by saving New York, he is probably sacrificing his rise to power.

 

Maybe that is the part of the finale that just doesn't ring true to me. There didn't seem to any real danger... real sacrifice. Sylar was stabbed but survived. Parkman was shot but he'll survive. DL was shot but will survive. The Petrellis will be back. Mind you, I'm not saying that I want the characters to die, but it feels too much like a comic book where there is no investment in the danger because no one ever pays the real price.

 

Bennett sacrificed his career to save Claire. As I mentioned above, Nathan sacrificed his quick rise to power and most likely figured there was a risk that he was sacrificing his life. Ando was willing to risk his life against Sylar. Parkman was willing to risk his life to try to take down Sylar as well. The characters don't know that they won't die.

 

There is also the reality of TV series to be considred. As the season went on, it became clear that the series was a hit and that the audience was tuning in as much for the characters as for the story. Killing off those characters risks losing that audience, possibly leading to the death of the series. And while that make a satisfying story for SOME viewers, producers also have an obligation to try to keep a show going and thus keep the crew working for them employed. Also, does the producer want to risk getting a reputation of creating a great series and then killing it?

 

Plus, the only characters involved in the final batle was Hiro and Nikki. I liked Nikki coming over and involving herself... even if it is just for a moment.

 

The final battle against Sylar was not what was important. Remember, the title was "How Do You Stop An Exploding Man?" which is what the main point of the episode was.

 

Again... I loved the series so the criticism is from a desire to see the best story possible.

 

Well, what you see as the best story anyway. Not everyone is going to agree with you. If I was running the finale as a convention game, I'd sacrifice a big exciting fight with Sylar to make sure that the quieter and much more important resolution to Peter's storyline was given the time it deserved.

[Clonus]

Re: Heroes

 

Which was something that I found confusing. Why couldn't Peter just fly himself away?

 

Because an inability to control his powers was what was causing him to explode in the first place.

 

And let's not fool ourselves... there was no sacrificing themselves for NY. They will both be back on the series next season.

 

Peter yes. Nathan maybe.

Maybe that is the part of the finale that just doesn't ring true to me. There didn't seem to any real danger... real sacrifice. Sylar was stabbed but survived. e.

 

That's assuming a bit too much. He was dragged away by something else. He could have been a corpse. All signs point to Sylar not being an active player in the next season.

[Psybolt]

Re: Heroes

 

I guess I'm going by the picture from TV Guide of the returning series including Nathan, Peter and Sylar. Seems clear that they will all be involved in season two.

 

And so the battle with Sylar wasn't the key component to the finale. I accept that. But a lot was made of Peter having to be there to stop Sylar... which simply didn't turn out to be accurate.

 

And I agree, the Peter storyline's quieter and much more important storyline needed time. I just don't think it was as well done as most of the rest of the season had been and could have extended more. Yes, that is just my opinion and I have no problem if others disagree with me.

 

I am not saying that I wanted a body count, but it just didn't seem that there was any consequences of the conflict... especially for the main players involved.

[Psybolt]

Re: Heroes

 

Oh... and Ando's willingness to sacrifice himself did ring true to me... because I was afraid he might be killed and so his eventual rescue by Hiro and their "goodbye" after this was an emotionally satisfying part of the final episode for me.

[Kirby]

Re: Heroes

 

I just finished watching the last episode today. I am hooked! As I am becoming less interested in Lost, Heroes will definitely be the one I'm sure to watch (aside from my History Channel shows, but that's a different area).

 

Hiro is hands down my favorite. Nikki's story is the only one my wife doesn't like. Along with the large cast, I like how the show is grounded in reality and that there are no costumes and capes. I also think it's important that the show is called Heroes, not Super Heroes.

 

Did anyone else find an eerie resemblence between Sylar and Stephen King?

 

Final Episode:

 

At first, I was ticked that Sylar's body was gone. I fear that if Sylar survives as a threat for Season Two, the show will "jump the shark" for me. I was so hoping that Hiro, after stabbing Sylar, would pull out his sword and cut off Sylar's head. I literally grunted and sighed when not one character acknowledged Sylar's missing body.

 

When Molly talked about the person who looks at her, (the one she no longer looks for) I was first pondering whether that was a foreshadowing to Season Two's villain or if Peter was the one she was referring to.

 

If this new villain took Sylar into the sewers, then I'll be OK with that.

 

 

Candice is pretty hot.

[Psybolt]

Re: Heroes

 

I liked Nikki's story quite a bit. She had a well developed arc and it was filled with tragedy. When Nikki was able to use the super strength at the end, I was happy. She would have been one of my favorites. A real shade of grey character.

[Psybolt]

Re: Heroes

 

I liked Nikki's story quite a bit. She had a well developed arc and it was filled with tragedy. When Nikki was able to use the super strength at the end, I was happy. She would have been one of my favorites. A real shade of grey character.

[Psybolt]

Re: Heroes

 

I liked Nikki's story quite a bit. She had a well developed arc and it was filled with tragedy. When Nikki was able to use the super strength at the end, I was happy. She would have been one of my favorites. A real shade of grey character.

[Psybolt]

Re: Heroes

 

I liked Nikki's story quite a bit. She had a well developed arc and it was filled with tragedy. When Nikki was able to use the super strength at the end, I was happy. She would have been one of my favorites. A real shade of grey character.

[Kirby]

Re: Heroes

 

Post 83:

I liked Nikki's story quite a bit. She had a well developed arc and it was filled with tragedy. When Nikki was able to use the super strength at the end' date=' I was happy. She would have been one of my favorites. A real shade of grey character.[/quote']Post 84:

I liked Nikki's story quite a bit. She had a well developed arc and it was filled with tragedy. When Nikki was able to use the super strength at the end' date=' I was happy. She would have been one of my favorites. A real shade of grey character.[/quote']Post 85:

I liked Nikki's story quite a bit. She had a well developed arc and it was filled with tragedy. When Nikki was able to use the super strength at the end' date=' I was happy. She would have been one of my favorites. A real shade of grey character.[/quote']Post 86:

I liked Nikki's story quite a bit. She had a well developed arc and it was filled with tragedy. When Nikki was able to use the super strength at the end' date=' I was happy. She would have been one of my favorites. A real shade of grey character.[/quote']

Sheesh, I heard you the first time! I liked Nikki's as well. DL's I wasn't too interested in for a while, but I'm over that phase. I don't really care for Micah's (he seemed very Mary Sue to me for many episodes) and I hope that they don't use Molly as his counterpart love/friend interest. Though the family's story as a whole how they're inured to their living conditions and their struggle to overcome it has been entertaining.

 

I hope they don't inundate Season Two with more supers. I understand the need to spread out the introduction of several supers over the initial season; I just worry about a new super every other episode. I would like to see Candice's backstory, a return of the invisible man Claude as well as the German girl Hana Gitelman.

[lapsedgamer]

Re: Heroes

 

If I were going to do a write-up of Peter Petrelli, I might give him a VPP with enough points in the pool to cover the powers he needs. I would guess 80 active points?

 

There would be some big limitations. He needs to have come into close proximity of a person who has any power he wants to use, say within 1" of the person. He also needs to make a power skill roll to change the points in the pool. Otherwise, the allocation of points becomes uncontrolled (up to the GM).

 

The pool would have to have just enough points to cover one ability at a time, or be so limited. He definitely seemd to be limited to one power at a time. This would explain his inability to change from radiation to flight. He failed his roll and was stuck with the last thing he pulled out. There has to be a hell of an active point penalty on the radiation powers even though they have that side effect limitation.

 

He would also not be able to use a power at a level higher than the person he absorbed it from. This would potentially lock out some points in the pool. For example, Niki's STR is not above 40-45, as shown to this point.

 

The only other way I can think of doing it is to have him use Multiform to change his sheet to match the other characters' powers, with the same limitations. Simialr to Eclipse in Ultimate Metamorph.

 

This might actually work better, as some people clearly have multipowers that could't legally go under a VPP without GM approval. Sylar's telekinesis is a multipower with TK, FF, EB and RKA. D.L. has Desolid, a No Range NND, and a nasty NND HKA (does BODY).

 

Sylar's TK I would buy separate from his other abilities. He seemed to be able use it in addition to whatever else he was doing at the time. I might give him a "Stolen Powers" Multipower with ultra slots to cover his other powers. His abilities are not as subject to rapid change as Peter's. Adding a slot using the experience he gained from hunting and killing a target would just about cover it.

[mattingly]

Re: Heroes

 

Is 80 Active Points enough to kill everyone in New York City with a single explosion?

[Susano]

Re: Heroes

 

I don't think so. Even using a MegaScaled explosion. In order to vaporize buildings, you're talking around 20-30D6 of EB.

[mattingly]

Re: Heroes

 

Maybe the build-up sequence with Peter glowing was the Aid RKA...

[Karmakaze]

Re: Heroes

 

I don't really care for Micah's (he seemed very Mary Sue to me for many episodes) and I hope that they don't use Molly as his counterpart love/friend interest. Though the family's story as a whole how they're inured to their living conditions and their struggle to overcome it has been entertaining.

 

At least I liked the chemistry between the two child actors they got for Micah and Molly. Kid actors are often really wooden (on account of having fewer years to hone their craft), and I thought they did a good job of playing off one another in the scenes they had together. (Well, that or the show had a director on the set who knows how to work with kids -- hard to tell.)

 

I hope they don't inundate Season Two with more supers. I understand the need to spread out the introduction of several supers over the initial season; I just worry about a new super every other episode. I would like to see Candice's backstory' date='[/quote']

Betty, part 1

Betty, part 2

Betty, part 3

Betty, part 4

a return of the invisible man Claude as well as the German girl Hana Gitelman.

Wireless, Part 1

Wireless, Part 2

Wireless, Part 3

Wireless, Part 4

The

of Hana Gitelman, Part 1

The

of Hana Gitelman, Part 2

 

I think Claude may be in there somewhere, but I can't recall the titles off the top of my head.

[Psybolt]

Re: Heroes

 

There will be at least two new supers to the main cast next season. I know Kristen Bell is one of them. I agree... you do not want to load up on new characters because the viewers potentially won't care about them.

[Kirby]

Re: Heroes

 

The

of Hana Gitelman' date=' Part 1[/url']

The

of Hana Gitelman, Part 2

Hana is an Israeli? And here I thought she was German!

[Karmakaze]

Re: Heroes

 

Hana is an Israeli? And here I thought she was German!

 

Oh, yes. Very clear from the comics, less clear from the ten seconds of actual airtime.

[lapsedgamer]

Re: Heroes

 

Is 80 Active Points enough to kill everyone in New York City with a single explosion?

 

He wasn't going to blow up all of New York, only a significant chunk. Even in the future the (hopefully alternate) future there was still a significant portion of the town standing, and everyone did not die. I think the explosion would be more on the level of a tactical nuke, with a lot of the casualties and damage resulting from the subsequent firestorm. The main concern seemed to be the political fall out and machinations after the event. The writers seemed to model the potential aftermath of this fictional event on the time after 9/11, which has changed our country politically and economically.

 

Still, 80 active points wouldn't cover that effect. I was using that as a placeholder figure for the center of the pack of the Heroes characters' power level.

 

The Exploding Man Effect would probalbly need about 160 or so. 6d6 RKA, No Range, Explosion, Mega Scale x1 (1"=1km). 5 km is about 3 miles, give or take. Manhattan is roughly 2 miles wide X 13 miles long, so that might just do it. Even if you went with the larger level of Megascale, you are at about 180 points. That seems like overkill to me that would cover 30 miles:eek:. YMMV.

 

There did not seem to be any lasting radiation, and people were moving around Manhattan just years after the fact, so I wouldn't worry about that. The key thing to me is that neither Peter nor the original owner of the power were in control of that effect. It was a dangerous potential side effect of the more pedestrian uses of their power. It is almost a plot device, and as such subject to GM interpretation.

 

I think that the EMP effect and radiation blast were more on line with the 80 point figure I threw out.

 

Peter costs a lot of points.

[Kirby]

Re: Heroes

 

My guess is that they didn't use the HERO System when designing the characters ; however, if we tried to do so, I'd say it'd be safe to assume that they aren't all built on the same amount of points. My initial guess is that, of the main cast, Matt Parkman and Nikki Sanders would be the lowest costs, followed by Nathan, with Peter Petrelli and Sylar being the two most expensive (and in that order).

[Susano]

Re: Heroes

 

Heh, I say just the thing in my adapting fictional characters to HERO.

[lapsedgamer]

Re: Heroes

 

Heh' date=' I say just the thing in my adapting fictional characters to HERO.[/quote']

 

Understood. However, you generally do a very good job, and always enjoy loking at teh write ups. It's a learning experience, and a good tutorial in playing around with the system. So far I'm just thinking out loud, and hoping someone else will do the heavy lifting down the road. I was going to start on it, but I don't think I really have the time--or the expertise--right now to follow through with the design.

 

That being said, I would love to go on with this type of conversation, unless it is thread derailing. Perhaps we could sustain a Heroes Build Shop thread.

[lapsedgamer]

Re: Heroes

 

My guess is that they didn't use the HERO System when designing the characters ; however' date=' if we tried to do so, I'd say it'd be safe to assume that they aren't all built on the same amount of points. My initial guess is that, of the main cast, Matt Parkman and Nikki Sanders would be the lowest costs, followed by Nathan, with Peter Petrelli and Sylar being the two most expensive (and in that order).[/quote']

 

Understood. Again, I was using 80 active points to center the group, with the undersatnding that some people would be higher, and some would be lower. Since almost everyone you see is basically an NPC, you could go wild on the builds. If you were GMing this, you probably wouldn't let anyone play Perelli, Sylar, Hiro or The Haitian. They would show up to advance the plot. Claire, Nikki, Micah, D.L. and Parkman would be about right for PCs. Claire's dad, as well. He fits in like the Batman of the group. He doesn't have powers, but he's hell on wheels in skills, contacts and access to gadgets.