Looking for recommendations for Power Armor information

[Jaxom]

A while back I started looking for information about Power Armor suits and got some good stuff... I'm still looking for good sources... I have a copy of Gadgets and Gear which does have a chapter on power armor but it is almost all examples. What it does not have is the rules behind some off-hand comments that caught me off guard...

 

I also tried a search here on the forums but I am not smart enough to make it search for the phrase "Power Armor" (instead of just the pair of words, ya know a lot of threads talk about powers and armor).

 

Is there a good source, product or forum, that discusses the rules implications for building power armor? (E.G. The 5th edition rules do a nice job of pointing out that you should make vehicle and base weapons bulky OIF or IIF items because they are not designed for removal and use generally and I am looking for similar suggestions and logic regarding power armor builds).

[Roy_The_Ruthles]

Re: Looking for recommendations for Power Armor information

 

Try asking this on the Star HERO boards, i'm sure someone will link something

[Hyper-Man]

Re: Looking for recommendations for Power Armor information

 

Power Armor is a sfx that can be built a number of ways in HERO.

 

OIF. The best example might be Defender from the current Champions sourcebook.

 

OIHID. Several examples should be lurking around on the boards.

 

Multiform. ditto.

 

I believe that Killershrike.com may have an example or 3 of all three types on his site. Some digging might be required.

[StGrimblefig]

Re: Looking for recommendations for Power Armor information

 

The 4th Ed book "High Tech Enemies," if you can find it, has several power armor builds.

 

Although, scanning through it, all of the PAs in the book use the same "OIF, doesn't affect figured Characteristics" style of build. Still, there are a couple of interesting ones there.

[Dust Raven]

Re: Looking for recommendations for Power Armor information

 

Is there a good source' date=' product or forum, that discusses the rules implications for building power armor?.[/quote']

 

Well, you're in the right forum to discuss rules. Unfortunately there really isn't a detailed rules sourcebook that discusses various method of building power armor. The closest is The Ultimate Vehicle, which has a small chapter to the subject. It may be exactly what you are looking for actually, but then again, it might not be enough. What I'd recommend is deciding how you want to represent power armor in your campaign and what role it will play. Will power armor be just another SFX in a large group of other power types (such as bionics, mutants, psionics, etc.)? Will power armor be the primary source of superhuman abilities? Will all power armor share certain qualities and what will those qualities be (such as life support systems, radios/radar, etc.)? Answering these questions may move you toward what rules you need as you effectively reason from effect to eventually build a consistent method for how power armor is built and functions in your game.

[Sean Waters]

Re: Looking for recommendations for Power Armor information

 

http://science.howstuffworks.com/exoskeleton.htm

 

OK, Power Armour. Champions?

 

1. Consistency is king. Decide on limits and stick to them.

1a. How good is it? What are the limits of technology for defence and strength? What weapons does your world support?

1b. How big can you make these things - larger chassis will support larger weapons and allow more strength and defence.

 

2. Supplementary equipment. Most PA will have communications equipments, and possibly life support but the range of additional equipment is almost unlimited, so LIMIT IT. Decide what technology can do in your world. If you don;t have the tech to make stuff invisible, then don't let PA have cloaking devices, at least not ones that actually make it invisible.

 

3. Regional variation. Different manufacturers will have different fortes. For instance Viper PA has excellent energy shielding (and can therefore exceed campaign limits for energy DEF by up to 5 points), whereas UNTIL PA has excellent onboard computers and communications, giving wearers adds to tactical and teamwork skills. Foxbat PA does something inappropriate then expodes. Agins, be consistent.

[Jaxom]

Re: Looking for recommendations for Power Armor information

 

In this particular case, I am trying to build a character for a supers campaign (Champions varient) and it was going to be my first foray into the hardcore power-armor idea, but while I have a number of examples, I have very few good rules-based reasons for them.

 

My initial intent was to go with the OIF focus route and build everything on the armor, but then I dug a bit and got into rules areas that seemed pretty grey... For example, if I build a blaster with a 90 active point multipower in it and someone tries to shoot the blaster it has 18 DEF (ap/5) and if that is exceeded something breaks (one of the powers in the focus)... This sounds like a really cool mechanic... Now let's apply it to power armor... Umm, don't they always hit the focus? So I have two mechanics for taking damage from every shot? Or does shooting the character not ever risk breaking the suit unless someone targets the suit specifically (aiming for a joint or something specific instead of just the whole character)?

 

And then in Gargets and Gear there are some really cool examples with limits on how many points can be built into different parts of the armor (boots, gauntlets, exoskeleton) but if there is a reference about *why* those numbers exist, I missed it.

 

Don't get me wrong... By citing these examples, they are not the only questions that have me stumped, but are examples of the kind of thing I am hoping to see answered in a "rules reference" like I asked for initially.

[Hyper-Man]

Re: Looking for recommendations for Power Armor information

 

In this particular case, I am trying to build a character for a supers campaign (Champions varient) and it was going to be my first foray into the hardcore power-armor idea, but while I have a number of examples, I have very few good rules-based reasons for them.

 

My initial intent was to go with the OIF focus route and build everything on the armor, but then I dug a bit and got into rules areas that seemed pretty grey... For example, if I build a blaster with a 90 active point multipower in it and someone tries to shoot the blaster it has 18 DEF (ap/5) and if that is exceeded something breaks (one of the powers in the focus)... This sounds like a really cool mechanic... Now let's apply it to power armor... Umm, don't they always hit the focus? So I have two mechanics for taking damage from every shot? Or does shooting the character not ever risk breaking the suit unless someone targets the suit specifically (aiming for a joint or something specific instead of just the whole character)?

 

And then in Gargets and Gear there are some really cool examples with limits on how many points can be built into different parts of the armor (boots, gauntlets, exoskeleton) but if there is a reference about *why* those numbers exist, I missed it.

 

Don't get me wrong... By citing these examples, they are not the only questions that have me stumped, but are examples of the kind of thing I am hoping to see answered in a "rules reference" like I asked for initially.

 

I don't know exactly where it is specifically stated but I am pretty sure that all the powers built into a single 'power-armor' construct get the benefit of any defense the construct provides to the wearer (like Armor or Force Field for example).

[Jaxom]

Re: Looking for recommendations for Power Armor information

 

I don't know exactly where it is specifically stated but I am pretty sure that all the powers built into a single 'power-armor' construct get the benefit of any defense the construct provides to the wearer (like Armor or Force Field for example).

 

I believe that is in 5th Edition (and probably FRED) in the expanded information about Foci. I recall it as well... But what is the flip-side?

 

Assume I am building a power armor blaster. Can I opt not to put any other defenses in and still get 18 (essentially free) points of DEF? The distinction between character (with armor, STUN and BODY) and the focus (with DEF) gets really fuzzy. With a laser gun or a magic ring or something there is a way to shoot the person wearing the focus. Not so with power armor logically, but in general I have learned (or trained myself) to avoid trying to apply logic and instead use the rules and the game-effect to reason the build. If I do that here, you can shoot the "character" without hitting the "armor" so that you hit the right set of numbers on the paper.

 

You just get some wonky situations and I grovel at the feet of the masters seeking canon law (and cannon law, for that matter) before I sit down with the GM and resort to hose ruling some things.

[JmOz]

Re: Looking for recommendations for Power Armor information

 

Well a couple things to remember

 

Just because the suit has a high defence the individual in the suit may still take damage from an attack if it is not from a defensive power

 

Ugg that sounds confusing

 

If your suit has DEF 18 from having 1 90 point Blaster, and the suit only gives 10/10 armor, then only the 10/10 will protect the character inside (But to damage the armor you need to do over 18 body)

 

Further more, and this is just me, most power armor should have the x2 DEF option, making damaging it unlikely at best (Def 36, Dr Destroyer would have trouble with that)

 

As for the stun/body, think of it this way, armor is hit, character in armor gets knocked around some from the hit, causing damage that the suit did not take

[Talon]

Re: Looking for recommendations for Power Armor information

 

Unless your game is very high-level (like 500+), I wouldn't worry too much about your OIF armor getting broken. (If you are worried, take the 2x DEF option, get the GM to let you define it as being made of "unbreakium" or something, or make sure you buy 20+ PD and ED for it.) For a "standard" Champions game, OIF is the most common route.

 

What I would worry more about is making sure the character has stuff to do if/when he loses the armor. OIF is a Limitation, and it should eventually come into play.

[Hugh Neilson]

Re: Looking for recommendations for Power Armor information

 

Unless your game is very high-level (like 500+), I wouldn't worry too much about your OIF armor getting broken. (If you are worried, take the 2x DEF option, get the GM to let you define it as being made of "unbreakium" or something, or make sure you buy 20+ PD and ED for it.) For a "standard" Champions game, OIF is the most common route.

 

What I would worry more about is making sure the character has stuff to do if/when he loses the armor. OIF is a Limitation, and it should eventually come into play.

 

Whether because it's broken, unavailable or what have you, as Talon says, this is a limitation. If the GM wants to break it, he'll find a way to break it. Double defenses? Penetrating killing attack. Hardened double defenses? Double penetrating killing attack.

 

If you are not prepared to do without the armor at times, you should be prepared to forego the point savings from the limitation. Many powered armor characters are built with Only In Hero ID, rather than OIF, to make their armor both unbreakable and much more difficult to take away (ie it's not removable in a turn outside combat). This is a lesser limitation, so should come into play less often. However, it is still a limitation, so there should be times that you cannot access the powers with this limitation.

 

If you don't want to be limited, don't take a Limitation. Dr. Destroyer has powered armor, but he takes no limitation because he always has the armor and it's unbreakable. Or, viewed another way, Dr. Destroyer has powered armor, but he always has the armor and it's unbreakable., so he gets no point savings because his armor suffers from no limitations.

[Jaxom]

Re: Looking for recommendations for Power Armor information

 

Thanks for all the feedback, guys. These are basically conclusions that I came to looking at the rules myself but it is good to hear other people weigh in with the same answer... I'll give some thought to writing all this stuff up as a single source and posting it for comment and feedback so that we can actually get a thread to point people at for canonical armor rules.

[Killer Shrike]

Re: Looking for recommendations for Power Armor information

 

OIHID, and also Multiform examples:

 

War-Man

 

Here are some OIHID examples:

 

Pounder

 

Richochet

 

As a comparison point here are a few characters that wear Powered Armor bought as a Focus:

 

Green Knight

 

Makeshift

 

Here is a combination Focus + VPP for modular gear:

 

Major Savage

 

 

And here is a character that wears Power Armor built as a Vehicle (the Powered Armor Suit link):

 

Goodspeed

 

And here is another character that has no physical form and uses a robotic body as a harness to interact with the normal world:

 

ERG-9

ERG-9 Suit

 

 

Theres a few more power armor type characters here and there on my site, but the above is pretty representative of the various major approaches I think.

[Remjin]

Re: Looking for recommendations for Power Armor information

 

There's also a system of creating power armor as a vehicle, in the Ultimate Vehicle, I believe and in FREd as well, if I remember correctly. That may be more what you're looking for if you want stuff on the suit to break separately from the character and all that. The typical use is to model more for the giant robot kind of thing, but it is applicable at smaller levels as well.

[Mike W]

Re: Looking for recommendations for Power Armor information

 

Mechanics aside, for ideas and inspiration as well as a fun look inside what being in power armor would probably be like, go track down an old Iron Man one shot called The Iron Manual. Marvel put it out in the late 80s or early 90s and it was essentially "the Iron Man technical manual for dummies" as a one shot comic book.