Nova Blast (sanity check, please)

[bigdamnhero]

I need some 2nd opinions here, please. An Energy Projector in my Champions game has a fairly straight-forward Multipower:

 

56 Nanite Weaponry: Multipower, 56-point reserve

6u 1) Quick Blast: Energy Blast 9d6, Reduced Endurance (1/2 END; +1/4) (56 Active Points) 2

3u 2) Big Blast: Energy Blast 11d6 (55 Active Points); Extra Time (Full Phase, Delayed Phase, -3/4), Concentration (1/2 DCV; -1/4) 5

 

The player (who is new to Hero, but learning) wants to be able to add a Nova Blast, an 18d6 Explosion that's heavily limited so he can only do it under the most dire circumstances, certainly no more than once per session. The problem, of course, is that totally breaks the MP reserve. So I'm looking at building it as a partially advantaged power outside the MP, but linked to the Big Blast slot:

 

14 Nova Blast: (Total: 80 Active Cost, 14 Real Cost)

Energy Blast +7d6 (35 Active Points); Increased Endurance Cost (x6 END; -2 1/2), Extra Time (Full Phase, Delayed Phase, -3/4), Linked (Big Blast; -1/2), Concentration (0 DCV; -1/2), No Range (-1/2) (Real Cost: 6)

plus Explosion (+1/2) for up to 90 Active Points of Big Blast (45 Active Points); Increased Endurance Cost (x6 END; -2 1/2), Extra Time (Full Phase, Delayed Phase, -3/4), Concentration (0 DCV; -1/2), No Range (-1/2), Linked (Big Blast; -1/2) (Real Cost: 8) 42

Legal? Broken? Too Munchkiny? I'm not worried about the player abusing the power, but if there's a better way to do it, I'm all ears. Thanks.

[ghost-angel]

Re: Nova Blast (sanity check, please)

 

Ultimate Energy Projector has some really good suggestions for Nova Blasts on p199

 

(Option V is my favorite.)

 

Why not just buy the full Nova EB strait, instead of as Linked.

 

Also, try Extra END 3x; Side Effects (Drain Stun 5D6, Always Occurs) instead.

[SCUBA Hero]

Re: Nova Blast (sanity check, please)

 

Quick thoughts:

 

The Nova Blast has No Range. You'll want to put Hole In The Middle or Personal Immunity on it, or the character will take 18d6 every time he uses it.

 

I'd add Charges to it (still buy Costs END, Increased END though)... say one or two.

 

I'm not sure you can buy No Range on the Explosion Single-Power Naked Advantage.

 

5ER, page 245: "Generally, a character cannot purchase a naked Power Advantage or Adder that adds to any slot in a Power Framework, but this depends on the nature of the powers and special effects involved and the GM's judgment regarding game balance, commmon sense, and dramatic sense." So I'd be wary of it, but it's not an absolute show-stopper.

 

[edit]

 

Cost for calculating a Single-Power Naked Advantage is different than one that can apply to any Power - see 5ER, page 245.

 

[/edit]

[Talon]

Re: Nova Blast (sanity check, please)

 

Looks generally fine, although 5ER p.310-1 says that you shouldn't buy Linked for extra dice of a power that are adding to a Framework slot. (Also, I think technically the Advantage would be a separate power, but that's just bookkeeping.)

 

Doesn't look unbalanced to me, though of course it really depends on the specifics of your game. I would note that by the book, the character will take full damage from the No Range Explosion unless he buys Personal Immunity or some such.

[Psylint]

Re: Nova Blast (sanity check, please)

 

I don't think you can "multiple power attack" with two attacks that have the Concentration limitation.

 

I also think you'd be better off just building it as a straight power. I'm guessing you're looking at 100-160 active (depending on how much explosion you want and how much "personal immunity")

 

You can get that down to 17- 25 points pretty easily,

 

1 Charge -2

Costs End -1/2

Concentration -3/4

Extra Time, full phase, delayed phase -3/4

No range -1/2

Endurance Cost x2 -1/2

 

You could add in more endurance cost, and/or side effects and bring the total cost even lower.

 

Side Effect 4d6 END drain (always occurs) -1/2 or the more aggressive

Side Effect 5d6 END and STUN drain (always occurs) -1 [assumes an Active Cost of 160ish]

 

Peace

[casualplayer]

Re: Nova Blast (sanity check, please)

 

If I were green-lit by the GM to do it, I would build the MP Pool as Partially Limited. For example:

 

78 (56+22) Nanite Weaponry-135 pt Multipower (56 pt MP + 79 pt MP (x6 END, Extra Time-Full Phase, Delayed Phase, Concentration-0 DCV))

8u 18d6 Ex EB No Range

6u 9d6 EB 1/2 END Cost

3u 11d6 EB Extra Time-Full Phase, Delayed Phase, Concentration-1/2 DCV

 

Any slot using more than 56 Active Points has to abide by all the Limitations associated with the additional pool. It would be legal in my game, FWIW.

[Killer Shrike]

Re: Nova Blast (sanity check, please)

 

Firestar (Power Up ability)

 

Nova (Nova Blast Multipower)

 

Similar but different: Neuro (Neuro Field (Variable Effect)) and Furnace (HOT HOT HOT!!!! and To Hot To Handle)

 

Gravitic (Gravity Field Manipulation x 2 -- technically not legal, but I ignore the two powers in a two different frameworks not stacking rule since I don't think it makes sense)

[Talon]

Re: Nova Blast (sanity check, please)

 

I don't think you can "multiple power attack" with two attacks that have the Concentration limitation.

 

It's actually one power, technically; the official to write the extra EB outside the MP is "+xd6", as it is adding to the original. It's not exactly well defined how to handle a power with differing amounts of Concentration, but taking the most restrictive is hard to argue with.

[OddHat]

Re: Nova Blast (sanity check, please)

 

Many good ideas above; I'd just add that you can always Haymaker, and that you can push a haymaker. If the player purchased a 6d6 EB Explosion w/ Personal Immunity in his VPP, a Pushed Haymaker would be a fair Nova blast in and of itself; add +4d6 EXP w/ Personal Immunity, Only when Haymakering Slot X (-1/2), 3x END Cost (or more), and you have a reasonably priced and very effective Nova Blast. Also worth remembering is that the +4d6 Haymaker is not prorated; no matter how many advantages are on the base power, you still get that extra 4d6.

[Psylint]

Re: Nova Blast (sanity check, please)

 

Ah.. point Talon, I see.

 

Something else occurs to me, why not a big old 1 charge Aid? then you could put it in the multipower, though it'd take two phases to execute.

 

xd6 Aid Multipower Reserve + Nova Blast slot simultaneously +1/2,

 

and then add a Nova Blast Slot

 

u. Nova Blast xd6 Explosion, Personal Immunity, ......

 

Just a thought, if you want to keep it in the power framework.

 

Peace

[Sean Waters]

Re: Nova Blast (sanity check, please)

 

You could do the whole thing like this, leaving out the MP entirely:

 

9d6 EB at half END 56 points, 2 END

 

PLUS

 

2d6 EB Full phase delay -3/4 and concentration -1/2 and 3x END -1: 10 points and -2 1/4 limitations = an extra 3 points and 3 END (total 59 points, 5 END)

 

PLUS

 

7d6 (35 Active Points); Increased Endurance Cost (x6 END; -2 1/2), Extra Time (Full Phase, Delayed Phase, -3/4), Linked (Big Blast; -1/2), Concentration (0 DCV; -1/2), No Range (-1/2) (Real Cost: 6)

 

Total 65 points, 23 END

 

Then you technically need a naked advantage for the explosion, and I'm slightly concerned that we don't seem to have bought personal immunity...

 

Explosion (+1/2) for up to 90 Active Points of Big Blast (45 Active Points); Increased Endurance Cost (x6 END; -2 1/2), Extra Time (Full Phase, Delayed Phase, -3/4), Concentration (0 DCV; -1/2), No Range (-1/2), Linked (Big Blast; -3/4 - can only use when linked power is used at full value) (Real Cost: 7) 24 END

 

TOTAL: 72 real points (135 active) and 47 END. Blimey. No personal immunity. Double blimey.

 

Note you can get the slightly more advantageous version of 'linked' here if you can only explode when at maximum intensity.

[casualplayer]

Re: Nova Blast (sanity check, please)

 

I'm gonna go out on a limb here and figure the character for Damage Reduction or heaps of extra ED for Fire/Heat.

[Comic]

Re: Nova Blast (sanity check, please)

 

Why not just go for an HKA explosion slot, usable only with Haymaker?

 

This will add Strength damage, Haymaker damage, possibly Push damage, if appropriate Martial Arts damage (if you can Haymaker your Martial maneuver, or for whichever produces greater effect), possible velocity damage if it isn't a Haymaker, and CSLs exchanged for damage classes, and also happens to model channeling a fiery force through one's body.

[ghost-angel]

Re: Nova Blast (sanity check, please)

 

Why not just go for an HKA explosion slot, usable only with Haymaker?

 

This will add Strength damage, Haymaker damage, possibly Push damage, if appropriate Martial Arts damage (if you can Haymaker your Martial maneuver, or for whichever produces greater effect), possible velocity damage if it isn't a Haymaker, and CSLs exchanged for damage classes, and also happens to model channeling a fiery force through one's body.

 

You can't Haymaker a Maneuver.

 

KAs on that scale break the tone of the campaign. Or could.

[Sean Waters]

Re: Nova Blast (sanity check, please)

 

...also, whilst it might work mechanically, we have heard nothing to indicate that the character is strong or a decent martial artist. It is definitely an idea worth considering, but it would not be top of my list.

[Sean Waters]

Re: Nova Blast (sanity check, please)

 

Damage does not work linearly in Hero.

 

If the campaign generally has a 12DC soft cap, and appropriate defences, you can expect average damage to be around 42 and average defences to be in the 20-30 range. That means 12-22 damge getting through defences.

 

An 18d6 damage attack will average 63 damage, so against those same defences you are looking at getting 33-43 damage through defences, which is likely to stun anyone in the area and will have a significant chance of KOing a lot of opponents if they've taken any damage already.

 

The only 'defence' is dive for cover, which is no sure thing and has significant penalties. As it is an explosion the effect is slightly mitigated - but they'll still have to dive a good distance to even take campaign average damage.

 

I think that you should be very careful before allowing a construct quite this beefy in the game. If the NovaBlaster takes the damage himself, that would be one way - the number of times he can do it is limited by how long he can stay conscious.

 

Anyway, worth thinking about the impact () of the power as well as the build.

[OddHat]

Re: Nova Blast (sanity check, please)

 

I've been using "Nova Blast" type builds in campaigns since around 1992 or so, and I allow them in my current campaign; by Nova Blast builds, I mean special, limited use all out signature attacks that significantly exceed campaign averages.

 

On the whole, I like the Comic Book feel they give to combats, the chance of suddenly turning the course of combat completely, either for or against the protagonists. I do agree that they need to be used with caution. A Wave Motion Gun / Nova Blast / Spark 8 / whatever maxed out special attack used after a couple turns or so of hard fighting when all seems lost is fun; used on Phase 12 at the start of combat it can be an anticlimactic buzz kill. I've mainly dealt with this by asking players who have all out signature attacks not to use them save in emergencies, to collaborate with me story teller to story teller. If you prefer a more mechanics based approach, a -1 "Emergencies Only" limit works fine, with the GM deciding what constitutes an emergency (based off of No Conscious Control). Requires an EGO Roll also works well here, as the player knows he's gambling when he chooses to use the maneuver, and the GM can add a bonus or penalty to the EGO roll depending on circumstances.

[ghost-angel]

Re: Nova Blast (sanity check, please)

 

...also' date=' whilst it might work mechanically, we have heard nothing to indicate that the character is strong or a decent martial artist. It is definitely an idea worth considering, but it would not be top of my list.[/quote']

 

Being a player in the game - I can tell you the character is a straight Flying Blaster.

[bigdamnhero]

Re: Nova Blast (sanity check, please)

 

Ultimate Energy Projector has some really good suggestions for Nova Blasts on p199

Thanks. I've just barely started reading UEP, and hadn't gotten that far yet.

 

Why not just buy the full Nova EB strait' date=' instead of as Linked.[/quote']

Well, trying to save points for one thing. Also since it uses the exact same sfx as the MP, anything that suppresses/etc the MP should also affect the Nova Blast. (Tho that could be handled with another Limitation I guess.)

 

The Nova Blast has No Range. You'll want to put Hole In The Middle or Personal Immunity on it' date=' or the character will take 18d6 every time he uses it.[/quote']

Good catch!

 

I'd add Charges to it (still buy Costs END' date=' Increased END though)... say one or two.[/quote']

Yeah, either that or some sort of "only in emergencies" Lim, as Oddhat suggests.

 

I'm not sure you can buy No Range on the Explosion Single-Power Naked Advantage.

HD wouldn't allow it, because it said Explosion itself wasn't ranged. But since the base power is ranged, it seemed to make sense to me.

 

Cost for calculating a Single-Power Naked Advantage is different than one that can apply to any Power - see 5ER' date=' page 245.[/quote']

Another good catch - thanks.

[bigdamnhero]

Re: Nova Blast (sanity check, please)

 

Looks generally fine' date=' although 5ER p.310-1 says that you shouldn't buy Linked for extra dice of a power that are adding to a Framework slot. [/quote']

Yep. missed that too. Thanks again.

[bigdamnhero]

Re: Nova Blast (sanity check, please)

 

Side Effect 4d6 END drain (always occurs) -1/2 or the more aggressive

Side Effect 5d6 END and STUN drain (always occurs) -1 [assumes an Active Cost of 160ish]

Nice. Tho it might be cheaper to just leave off the Personal Immunity...

[bigdamnhero]

Re: Nova Blast (sanity check, please)

 

If I were green-lit by the GM to do it' date=' I would build the MP Pool as Partially Limited. [/quote']

Not sure I want to leave the door open for additional 135-pt powers. But that's a pretty slick way of doing it.

 

the official to write the extra EB outside the MP is "+xd6"' date=' as it is adding to the original. [/quote']

Right - edit made to OP. Thanks.

 

Also, thanks to KS for the excellent examples.

[bigdamnhero]

Re: Nova Blast (sanity check, please)

 

Many good ideas above; I'd just add that you can always Haymaker' date=' and that you can push a haymaker. If the player purchased a 6d6 EB Explosion w/ Personal Immunity in his VPP, a Pushed Haymaker would be a fair Nova blast in and of itself; add +4d6 EXP w/ Personal Immunity, Only when Haymakering Slot X (-1/2), 3x END Cost (or more), and you have a reasonably priced and very effective Nova Blast. Also worth remembering is that the +4d6 Haymaker is not prorated; no matter how many advantages are on the base power, you still get that extra 4d6.[/quote']

True enough. Tho even with a good Push, that only gets up to 12d6 X. Which ain't bad, but the player was looking for something bigger.

[bigdamnhero]

Re: Nova Blast (sanity check, please)

 

Something else occurs to me' date=' why not a big old 1 charge Aid? then you could put it in the multipower, though it'd take two phases to execute.[/quote']

See, this is why I love these boards. The idea of doing it as an Aid never even occurred to me. Thanks.

Tho I'm a little hesitant about allowing an Aid inside a Framework to affect the Framework itself. Don't know that it's illegal per se, but seems dodgy in my mind.

 

Note you can get the slightly more advantageous version of 'linked' here if you can only explode when at maximum intensity.

Legal, tho I tend to be stingy about allowing that when I don't think the power would ever likely be used at less than full power anyway. YMMV.

[OddHat]

Re: Nova Blast (sanity check, please)

 

True enough. Tho even with a good Push' date=' that only gets up to 12d6 X. Which ain't bad, but the player was looking for something bigger.[/quote']

 

Sure; I was thinking on the lines of buying a 6d6 EXP w/ Personal Immunity NR slot in the MP (52 active points), then another outside of the MP with the addition of 3x END Cost and only w/ Haymaker (52 Active points, 17 real). The two together work out to a 16d6 (12d6+4d6) explosion, for about 21 total real points. Add additional limitations to taste; Requires EGO Roll is a particularly handy one for this type of power.