Arthur Posted July 31, 2003 Report Share Posted July 31, 2003 If it's not a Superheroic campaign, why worry about all the point cost details? You need a PD and ED in case it is attacked and a defined size, but the rest of it can just be arbitrarily defined. Unless a character is paying points for it, who cares? Insta-shelter: 1 hex radius, DEF 4. Keeps inside at 20 deg C and keeps out rain, wind, vermin, etc. Comes with a set of wristbands; anyone wearing the wristband can pass through the perimeter of the shelter as though it is not there (each wristband has to be tuned to a specific shelter). See how much easier this is? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DoItHTH Posted July 31, 2003 Report Share Posted July 31, 2003 I always wondered how to create a "Force Wall" that physically does not behave as a wall. A barrier that allows an individual to pass through as if it was not there but stops ranged attacks. This is like the original post but would not require any special device to allow entre. What about this? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GamePhil Posted July 31, 2003 Report Share Posted July 31, 2003 Originally posted by Arthur If it's not a Superheroic campaign, why worry about all the point cost details? You need a PD and ED in case it is attacked and a defined size, but the rest of it can just be arbitrarily defined. Unless a character is paying points for it, who cares? Insta-shelter: 1 hex radius, DEF 4. Keeps inside at 20 deg C and keeps out rain, wind, vermin, etc. Comes with a set of wristbands; anyone wearing the wristband can pass through the perimeter of the shelter as though it is not there (each wristband has to be tuned to a specific shelter). See how much easier this is? It's also easy to give a man a fish, but teaching a man to fish is harder. Sure, if the device is only ever going to be in that one game you could do this. I like having it built and ready to take into another game if needed, or to run the cost through the Star HERO formulae to get a cost in credits, or to know how much of a penalty I have to my Gadgeteering roll to make modifications to it. For that matter, knowing what it is I'm making modifications to. It gives me an idea of the power level of a group that has equipment not paid for in points. Perhaps he just has fun coming up with the write ups, or hearing about them. I do. That's in under a minute, I'm sure I can come up with more. Nothing wrong with hand-waiving, but there are advantages to putting in a little extra. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Talon Posted July 31, 2003 Report Share Posted July 31, 2003 Assume we want the "penetrable" Force Wall for whatever reason. (Perhaps a superhero wants to be able to trap people but walk in to question them.) Option 1: Force Wall, Personal Immunity Usable By Others. This works fine, but it's a slightly dodgy mechanic (Force Walls with Personal Immunity can be easily abused). Option 2: Force Wall with Computer which resizes the wall to create a gap when the right people want to enter. Also works fine, but has the side effect that the wrong people could slip in at the same time (which might be OK for the SFX or might not). Option 3: Force Wall plus 1" Teleport Usable As Attack, Triggered by the right person trying to enter. Depending on GM, you could either have the Trigger auto-reset or have a Computer which operated the Trigger (or even ditch the Trigger and just have the computer bring people in). The SFX would be that the Force Wall was opening just enough to let that person in -- no actual Teleport would take place. Option 4: Force Wall plus some sort of Suppress which would either be Triggered, operated by an inside Computer, or in a Focus carried around. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Killer Shrike Posted July 31, 2003 Report Share Posted July 31, 2003 Perhaps an Adder for FW would appropriate, "Portal" for +5 Points you may open and close a mansized opening in the FW as a 0 Phase Action; you may not both open and close the opening in the same Phase. This opening may be attacked through by anyone on either side of the opening following normal rules for line of sight and targetting. "Permeable" for +5 points the FW stops attacks but allows people and objects to cross through it at will. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarkusDark Posted July 31, 2003 Author Report Share Posted July 31, 2003 As an FYI, the idea I had behind this is not to create an impenetrable mode of protection. It is suppose to be nothing more than a hi-tech tent. The reason I didn't go with just a Change Environment is because, well, I don't like to use CE for something this 'reality changing'. To warm up and/or dry out an area, sure. But to keep rain, snow and sleet from hitting you while sleeping - I dun like it. The idea of a FW is so that simple rain and so on can be kept out while warmth is kept in, however if the conditions become TOO violent (such as hail the size of basketballs) the thing will go down. It is meant as an emergency shelter type of thing so you wouldn't want to be invisible (normally). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Talon Posted July 31, 2003 Report Share Posted July 31, 2003 Originally posted by MarkusDark As an FYI, the idea I had behind this is not to create an impenetrable mode of protection. It is suppose to be nothing more than a hi-tech tent. That's why I would stay away from Personal Immunity, it's asking for abuse. Do the computer thing; something like: Val Char Cost 0 DEX -30 3 INT -7 4 SPD 30 Characteristics Cost: -7 Cost Power 11 Sense Control Batons: Detect Batons 14-, Range, Sense; 2" Range (-1/4) Powers Cost: 11 Cost Talent 1 Program: Transport target through Force Wall 1 Program: Emergency Shut-Down Talents Cost: 2 Total Character Cost: 6 / 5 = 1 plus 28 Energy Shelter: Force Wall (3 PD/3 ED; 2" long and 2" tall), Reduced Endurance 0 END (+1/2) 3 Enter/Exit Shelter: Teleportation 1", Reduced Endurance 0 END (+1/2), Indirect Any origin, always fired away from attacker (+1/2), Usable As Attack (+1); only to transport through Force Wall (-1) Buy it all OAF or whatever. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GamePhil Posted July 31, 2003 Report Share Posted July 31, 2003 Originally posted by Geoff Speare Do the computer thing; something like: Say, that looks pretty good. I do admit I tend to not think of using Followers for things like this. Which is a bit ironic, now that I think of it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Talon Posted July 31, 2003 Report Share Posted July 31, 2003 I like the feel: characters may have to wait a bit for the computer to notice them; characters in combat may be dodging too much for the computer to "lock on"; someone with hacking or cyberkinetic ability can override the function to break in; etc. Hm, Online Spacer's Toolkit... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarkusDark Posted July 31, 2003 Author Report Share Posted July 31, 2003 Originally posted by Geoff Speare Hm, Online Spacer's Toolkit... Hey! What do you think I was working on this for??? Feel free to post it, as long as I get some recognition. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Talon Posted July 31, 2003 Report Share Posted July 31, 2003 Oh no, it's all yours. Feel free to use any and all of my ideas and/or writeups. I just want to see someone put it in there! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarkusDark Posted August 1, 2003 Author Report Share Posted August 1, 2003 I am hoping to submit a list by next weekend. My only downside - I don't have the spacer's toolkit. Hope I don't simply remake existing items and waste Ben's time... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GamePhil Posted August 1, 2003 Report Share Posted August 1, 2003 Originally posted by MarkusDark I am hoping to submit a list by next weekend. My only downside - I don't have the spacer's toolkit. Hope I don't simply remake existing items and waste Ben's time... That shouldn't really be a problem: after all, he should be able to quickly recognize an item from the Toolkit and let you know. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DoItHTH Posted August 1, 2003 Report Share Posted August 1, 2003 How about using Desolidification with Usable by Others, Only to pass through force walls? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Farkling Posted August 2, 2003 Report Share Posted August 2, 2003 um...I read this discussion but had no useful observations until this point. I have a question about passing through walls. Isn't that what Tunnelling is for? Correct me if I am wrong, but Force Walls only break when they take BODY damage in excess of their defense? I think I'm reading the rules correctly... Aren't we supposed to refrain from building powers that mimic other powers? Teleportation is fine for a Star Trek world, but I preferred Babylon 5 and Firefly (yea, even the original Battlestar Galacticas...). Besides, a teleport has to mess around with extra mass and the *poof* special effect when players actually look up the powers (they will, they always do). Shouldn't one person be able to provide access, and carry supplies in and out? SO....how's this look? (Assuming the 4 PD wall) 1" Tunnelling (+5) through DEF 4 (+9). Invisible Power Effects (+1/2), , Can fill Tunnel in (+10), 16 charges, can only be used on Force Walls (-1/2), OIF - Control Baton (-1/2). So, that's 36 Active and 18 Real, and leaves room for the active gadgeteer to tinker it into a force field key. The invisible power effects is to "cover up" the tunneled point of the shelter wall. The user can also keep the portal open for multiple entries...instead of charges itt could have an internal END battery, or even be 0 END cost so it ALWAYS works when used. Could even add extra time to simulate opening the hole. The 0 END version is 48 active and 19 real. This could be tuned to your heart's content. Including a supervisor wand versus "personal use" access bracelets. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GamePhil Posted August 3, 2003 Report Share Posted August 3, 2003 Originally posted by Farkling um...I read this discussion but had no useful observations until this point. I have a question about passing through walls. Isn't that what Tunnelling is for? Not precisely: Tunneling is for going through objects, but so is Desolidification (in part), and Teleport certainly qualifies for ignoring the intervening space which can include the Force Wall. But, yes, as long as the GM accepts that it doesn't break the Force Wall, this works perfectly well as far as I know. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Goodwin Posted August 3, 2003 Report Share Posted August 3, 2003 Why not either Force Wall, Only Vs. Weather, or Force Wall, Not Vs. Guys With Passthrough Keys? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GamePhil Posted August 3, 2003 Report Share Posted August 3, 2003 Originally posted by archer Why not either Force Wall, Only Vs. Weather, or Force Wall, Not Vs. Guys With Passthrough Keys? Because a Limitation will not make the Force Wall transparent: if it's Only Vs. Weather, someone walking through it will break it. Likewise to guys with Passthrough Keys. As supporting evidence, I point to the Transparent Advantage, rather a large Advantage to allow some things through. Of course, this is open to interpretation. If it were allowed in a game, I would not argue about it, but it might not be. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Goodwin Posted August 3, 2003 Report Share Posted August 3, 2003 Try this then. Force Wall with either a Limited Advantage or Naked Advantage: Transparent, Not Vs. Weather, or Transparent, Only Vs. Guys With Passthrough Keys. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GamePhil Posted August 4, 2003 Report Share Posted August 4, 2003 Originally posted by GamePhil But, yes, as long as the GM accepts that it doesn't break the Force Wall, this works perfectly well as far as I know. This was about Tunneling, and it officially doesn't work: Tunneling does not allow you to penetrate the Force Wall, Mr. Long said so, and his word is LAW! Ok, not really, but that's the official stance. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GamePhil Posted August 4, 2003 Report Share Posted August 4, 2003 Originally posted by archer Try this then. Force Wall with either a Limited Advantage or Naked Advantage: Transparent, Not Vs. Weather, or Transparent, Only Vs. Guys With Passthrough Keys. heh heh. This is getting pretty far off the map, now. I honestly have no problem with your last try, I'm just not sure it works "officially". If someone came to me with it, I'd probably allow it. It's just not enough to worry about. I like Mono's computer, though, myself. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Goodwin Posted August 4, 2003 Report Share Posted August 4, 2003 Originally posted by GamePhil heh heh. This is getting pretty far off the map, now. I honestly have no problem with your last try, I'm just not sure it works "officially". If someone came to me with it, I'd probably allow it. It's just not enough to worry about. 100% official. Look at FREd pp. 157 and 180. You'll probably want to use a Naked Advantage if you're using HeroDesigner, as Dan Simon refuses to add the Limited Advantage functionality. But you get a Force Wall that is either transparent to everything but weather, or transparent to nothing but guys with the keys. Which sounds like what the original poster was asking for. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Talon Posted August 4, 2003 Report Share Posted August 4, 2003 Originally posted by archer Try this then. Force Wall with either a Limited Advantage or Naked Advantage: Transparent, Not Vs. Weather, or Transparent, Only Vs. Guys With Passthrough Keys. While the latter is technically legal, it seems close to EB AOE, only vs. villains; an advantage disguised as a limitation. I'm not sure I'd allow it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Goodwin Posted August 4, 2003 Report Share Posted August 4, 2003 Originally posted by Geoff Speare While the latter is technically legal, it seems close to EB AOE, only vs. villains; an advantage disguised as a limitation. I'm not sure I'd allow it. If it was for a character's primary or secondary defense power, or for someone's Fortress of Solitude, I'm not sure I would either, but c'mon! It's a glorified umbrella. With 3 PD, 3 ED, I don't see too many possibilities for abuse. But... now that I look at it, the Transparent Advantage is used for Force Walls that have 0 in either PD or ED. If I were GM, I'd probably let him go with Force Wall, Only Vs. Weather, or Force Wall, Not Vs. Guys With Passkey, with the understanding that that particular construct is only allowed with the weather dome and not for general usage. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dbsousa Posted August 4, 2003 Report Share Posted August 4, 2003 Force Wall allows you to use a half phase action to alter the shape or size. As a special effect, I would allow the person with a key to take a half phase to open a door... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.