MarkusDark Posted July 30, 2003 Report Share Posted July 30, 2003 So, I wanted to build a Gamma World type of instant shelter device for Star Hero. The idea is that You create a force wall with a minimal amount of PD to keep out the elements, add in a Change environment to keep things warm and dry inside and you have an instant emergency shelter. My only thought to add to it would be some way to have people be able to walk in and out of the area without having to drop the Force Wall. Any ideas on how to do it? I was originally thinking having some sort of device (a wrist band) that could pass through it freely as well as allow anyone wearing it to pass through. Someone shows up, you toss him a wrist band and he walks in. Not suring how to do even that though... Of course, if this is already in TE or SH (Just got the books today) I'm just bein' silly... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Hiemforth Posted July 30, 2003 Report Share Posted July 30, 2003 Re: Penetrating a FW without collapsing it... Originally posted by MarkusDark I was originally thinking having some sort of device (a wrist band) that could pass through it freely as well as allow anyone wearing it to pass through. Someone shows up, you toss him a wrist band and he walks in. Not suring how to do even that though... For the sake of the example, this assumes a Force Wall of 4 PD / 4 Ed. Wrist Band of Safe Passage: Personal Immunity to Force Wall (5 Base Points), Usable By Other at Range (+3/4). (9 Active Points), OIF Wristband (-1/2). Real Cost: 6 points. Edited typo in Limitation value Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GamePhil Posted July 30, 2003 Report Share Posted July 30, 2003 A couple of things come to mind. Buy Personal Immunity on the Force Wall. Put the PI on the OAF: Wristband, and make it Universal. Again, with the Universal Focus: buy Desolidification, only to go through walls, only your Force Wall. Buy the Force Wall Selective, allowing you to open it when people come in. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GamePhil Posted July 30, 2003 Report Share Posted July 30, 2003 Re: Re: Penetrating a FW without collapsing it... Originally posted by Derek Hiemforth Wrist Band of Safe Passage: Personal Immunity to Force Wall (5 Base Points), Usable By Other at Range (+3/4). (9 Active Points), OIF Wristband (-1/4). Real Cost: 6 points. Ya gotta be quick in this business... Say, why is the Wristband -1/4? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kintara Posted July 30, 2003 Report Share Posted July 30, 2003 You think a similar ability (like a naked Personal Immunity, Usable on Others, Area Effect) might work to describe a one way Force Wall? One way would mean you can attack out but not in. We were thinking that maybe another Defensive power is required for something like that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Hiemforth Posted July 30, 2003 Report Share Posted July 30, 2003 Re: Re: Re: Penetrating a FW without collapsing it... Originally posted by GamePhil Ya gotta be quick in this business... Say, why is the Wristband -1/4? A bad edit. I originally wrote it as IIF, changed my mind, and changed the Real Cost, but forgot to change the modifier value. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Hiemforth Posted July 30, 2003 Report Share Posted July 30, 2003 Originally posted by Kintara You think a similar ability (like a naked Personal Immunity, Usable on Others, Area Effect) might work to describe a one way Force Wall? One way would mean you can attack out but not in? Sure. If I was the GM, I'd give such an ability a close look for game balance reasons, but I'd have no problem with the mechanics of building the effect like that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GamePhil Posted July 30, 2003 Report Share Posted July 30, 2003 Originally posted by Kintara You think a similar ability (like a naked Personal Immunity, Usable on Others, Area Effect) might work to describe a one way Force Wall? One way would mean you can attack out but not in. We were thinking that maybe another Defensive power is required for something like that. It's probably best, usually, to not have Force Walls with Personal Immunity: this is a special case where GM leniency might be warranted. It's part of the balance of Force Wall that it blocks things both ways. Probably. In any event, another option would be to take a Naked Advantage: Indirect on a common attack power, like Energy Blast, and make that Usable By Others for several companions. Might be a good way to build a tank character, that is, an actual tank, rather than the character type of the same name. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Killer Shrike Posted July 30, 2003 Report Share Posted July 30, 2003 Heres a post I threw up to Steve a while back trying to do an almost identical ability: http://www.herogames.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=3476 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GamePhil Posted July 30, 2003 Report Share Posted July 30, 2003 Originally posted by Killer Shrike Heres a post I threw up to Steve a while back trying to do an almost identical ability: I'm curious: what did you need the Force Wall for? You seemed to have everything covered without it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Killer Shrike Posted July 30, 2003 Report Share Posted July 30, 2003 Originally posted by GamePhil I'm curious: what did you need the Force Wall for? You seemed to have everything covered without it. Keep rain and vermin out. jk Actually, I was using it for the Opaque properties. It seems silly to me to buy Darkness Hole in the Middle to make an Opaque screen, whereas Force Wall is essenetially a screen (covers a hex face) and has a way to do this built into it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hugh Neilson Posted July 30, 2003 Report Share Posted July 30, 2003 I'd just go without the Force Wall. Change Environment should be able to keep those inside dry and vermin-free anyway. How big a deal is the fact the exterior is opaque? I can't see in, you can't see out. It's not like it will see combat use. If you want hard walls (and even 4/4 seems pretty hard - 4 resistant DEF is a failry tough object), then you need the Force Wall. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hugh Neilson Posted July 30, 2003 Report Share Posted July 30, 2003 Another thought - you could build it as a Base (pretty cheap for the size and DEF you're probably looking for) and define it as "summoned" by the wristband (or as a vehicle, since you can move it about - but the shelter itself doesn't move, so I'd call it Summon Base). Bases have opaque walls, and keep the rain and bugs out. To clarify the mechanics, you would pay the full cost of tjhe base (ie compite base, divide by 5) and pay END for the Summon. Basically, the "portability" of the base offsets the END cost. You could buy the Summon no end. You can also make it pretty cheap with Extra time ("Just pull the switch, and in only a minute, you've got a complete shelter") Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarkusDark Posted July 30, 2003 Author Report Share Posted July 30, 2003 Thanks for the info guys. For some reason, I didn't think you could by PI with a Force Wall... I LOVE Force Walls and am working on a series of such items for Star Hero - nothing that is really combat related - more emergency and survival items. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sbarron Posted July 30, 2003 Report Share Posted July 30, 2003 I agree with Hugh. This seems like change environment to me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RadeFox Posted July 30, 2003 Report Share Posted July 30, 2003 Change Environment is good, but its too, um, simple...not enough to hang your suspension of disbelief on. Adding in a Force Wall, even a 1/1 or 2/2, give the players a point of reference for WHY its warm and dry inside. Also, any good explorer will be quick to point out, that the ability to make the walls opaque is a nice feature, especially if the local environment is full of flashing light bugs, or heavy storms. Another thing to keep in mind, is that many things other then simple vermin might wander by in the night. Having a decent force wall in place could well mean the difference between life and death if a local carnivore happens upon you. In old Traveller, Scouts often worked ALONE. So the ability to have a small force wall hut (I'd offer a 4/4 or 6/6 military/scout issue version) would be a highly sought commodity. The defense of the force wall, just as highly prized by solitary scouts and prospectors, on those lonely worlds filled with unknown and likely hostile critters. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Killer Shrike Posted July 30, 2003 Report Share Posted July 30, 2003 Change Environment cannot totally block a sense, it can only apply PER modifiers. If a GM wants to handwave it thats immaterial, but mechanically you need to use Darkness of some form or an Opaque Force Wall or an Entangle that Blocks sense. I cant think of any other way to legally do it off hand. Images can kind of do it, but it gets weird if someone beats the PER roll and sees thru it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Killer Shrike Posted July 30, 2003 Report Share Posted July 30, 2003 Originally posted by Killer Shrike Change Environment cannot totally block a sense, it can only apply PER modifiers. If a GM wants to handwave it thats immaterial, but mechanically you need to use Darkness of some form or an Opaque Force Wall or an Entangle that Blocks sense. I cant think of any other way to legally do it off hand. Images can kind of do it, but it gets weird if someone beats the PER roll and sees thru it. You could also theoretically do it as a really funky flash, but lets not even go there Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hugh Neilson Posted July 30, 2003 Report Share Posted July 30, 2003 Originally posted by RadeFox Change Environment is good, but its too, um, simple...not enough to hang your suspension of disbelief on. Adding in a Force Wall, even a 1/1 or 2/2, give the players a point of reference for WHY its warm and dry inside. Also, any good explorer will be quick to point out, that the ability to make the walls opaque is a nice feature, especially if the local environment is full of flashing light bugs, or heavy storms. Another thing to keep in mind, is that many things other then simple vermin might wander by in the night. Having a decent force wall in place could well mean the difference between life and death if a local carnivore happens upon you. In old Traveller, Scouts often worked ALONE. So the ability to have a small force wall hut (I'd offer a 4/4 or 6/6 military/scout issue version) would be a highly sought commodity. The defense of the force wall, just as highly prized by solitary scouts and prospectors, on those lonely worlds filled with unknown and likely hostile critters. I wouldn't add the force wall to keep bugs out - I think the change environment is adequate. For personal defense during the night, rather than just comfort, the force wall makes sense. Of course, isn't the force wall visible, audible and detectable by one other sense? Essentially, you are choosing defense at the cost of being more noticable, unless you pump up the cost and make that Wall invisible (except to sight - who cares if it's opaque - that was the idea). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hugh Neilson Posted July 30, 2003 Report Share Posted July 30, 2003 Originally posted by RadeFox Change Environment is good, but its too, um, simple...not enough to hang your suspension of disbelief on. Adding in a Force Wall, even a 1/1 or 2/2, give the players a point of reference for WHY its warm and dry inside. Also, any good explorer will be quick to point out, that the ability to make the walls opaque is a nice feature, especially if the local environment is full of flashing light bugs, or heavy storms. Is a Force Wall impermeable? Air gets in (or you'd suffocate), so water should leak through a typical force wall as well. And it's not really insulated. The Change Environment covers both off anyway. And it's warm and dry inside because it's surrounded by a wall of force. It's not a Force Wall (mechanic), but it is a force wall (SFX). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eepjr24 Posted July 30, 2003 Report Share Posted July 30, 2003 Or even worse.. Originally posted by Killer Shrike You could also theoretically do it as a really funky flash, but lets not even go there Invisibility to Sight Usable As Attack [+1] Area of Effect Radius (4") [+1] 1 Continuing Charge of 8 hours [+0] Bright Fringe [-1/4] Only vs an immobile, inanimate hex [-2] 60 AP 18 RP You could further reduce this by making it a focus, or increase the cost to include other senses. - Ernie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GamePhil Posted July 31, 2003 Report Share Posted July 31, 2003 Originally posted by sbarron I agree with Hugh. This seems like change environment to me. For the item from the question to Steve, I would tend to agree. For the item in Gamma World, the original question, it actually puts up a force field (that is, Force Wall) that stops a small amount of damage from getting through. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RadeFox Posted July 31, 2003 Report Share Posted July 31, 2003 my comment about the change environment being too simple, was that Id make this with BOTH the Force Wall and the Change Environment. Not just one or the other. And as for making the Wall silent or whatever, its easy enough to do, and since its equipment, active points don't really mean much in the end. But you could designate the sound the Force wall makes as a sound that is annoying to most known insects and animals. Like a UV squeal or somesuch, to make the whole thing a bit more solid state. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old Man Posted July 31, 2003 Report Share Posted July 31, 2003 Another way to do it would be to do the entangle barrier thing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hugh Neilson Posted July 31, 2003 Report Share Posted July 31, 2003 Originally posted by RadeFox But you could designate the sound the Force wall makes as a sound that is annoying to most known insects and animals. Like a UV squeal or somesuch, to make the whole thing a bit more solid state. Actually, I'd envision this being a lot like a fire - it keeps the animal predators away, but you're way more noticable to the sentient beings that may be in the area. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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