Vestnik Posted January 17, 2008 Report Share Posted January 17, 2008 While on my way to work this morning I had the odd idea pop into my head of adopting the Alice in Wonderland universe into a full-fledged fantasy setting, I suppose vaguely like the old D&D Wonderland-based dungeon modules, but with less instant Gygax death and with the characters actually integral to the setting, native to Wonderland. (Wonderland would have to be considerably more fleshed out and made more coherent than as Carrol presents it of course.) Is this a crazy idea? Does anybody think it could work? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
L. Marcus Posted January 17, 2008 Report Share Posted January 17, 2008 Re: Lewis Carrol Hero Oo! Oo! I get to be the Walrus! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vestnik Posted January 17, 2008 Author Report Share Posted January 17, 2008 Re: Lewis Carrol Hero Goo-goo-gatchoo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gadodel Posted January 17, 2008 Report Share Posted January 17, 2008 Re: Lewis Carrol Hero It could work in a Ravenloft-esque sort of way. The characters are drawn to a world that is bizarre and dangerous. Their goal is to leave with their heads still attached. Alice could certainly be an NPC whose role it is to advise the characters whenever possible. In order for it to work, you would have to expand on the number and purpose of the animals. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vestnik Posted January 17, 2008 Author Report Share Posted January 17, 2008 Re: Lewis Carrol Hero It could work in a Ravenloft-esque sort of way. The characters are drawn to a world that is bizarre and dangerous. Their goal is to leave with their heads still attached. Alice could certainly be an NPC whose role it is to advise the characters whenever possible. In order for it to work, you would have to expand on the number and purpose of the animals. I had the idea of the characters actually being denizens of Wonderland, for instance knights of the King of Hearts sent off on a quest. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thia Halmades Posted January 17, 2008 Report Share Posted January 17, 2008 Re: Lewis Carrol Hero While on my way to work this morning I had the odd idea pop into my head of adopting the Alice in Wonderland universe into a full-fledged fantasy setting, I suppose vaguely like the old D&D Wonderland-based dungeon modules, but with less instant Gygax death and with the characters actually integral to the setting, native to Wonderland. (Wonderland would have to be considerably more fleshed out and made more coherent than as Carrol presents it of course.) Is this a crazy idea? Does anybody think it could work? I don't just think it could work; I'm fairly certain that it did once. I'm not saying "don't do it," I'm saying "this game was f'ing GREAT and you may want to consider using it for inspiration." But then, I'm a Dark sort of GM; the more black paint I have, the happier I am. And this game is soaked in black & blood. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vestnik Posted January 17, 2008 Author Report Share Posted January 17, 2008 Re: Lewis Carrol Hero I don't just think it could work; I'm fairly certain that it did once. I'm not saying "don't do it' date='" I'm saying "this game was f'ing GREAT and you may want to consider using it for inspiration." But then, I'm a Dark sort of GM; the more black paint I have, the happier I am. And this game is soaked in black & blood. [/quote'] Wonderland is actually a pretty dark place. Alice almost gets killed on multiple occasions. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc Posted January 17, 2008 Report Share Posted January 17, 2008 Re: Lewis Carrol Hero Of course it can work. Roleplaying is in our heads only; anything can work, provided some players who are also interested in it... Personally, I like the idea. I tried something once that could ressemble this. The players were ancient mysticall creatures living in the wood. They had to fight against ancient mysticall evils (because that's the way it has always been), but they also had to resist the arrival of human civilization, the new "order". Your idea make me think about this one because players were all fantasist creatures or characters. They wre all in another mindset than the classical human "adventurers"... Well, it didn't work, but only because of a bad system (AD&D, 2nd ed...). Moreover, the characters were all level 20 to reflect their mysticall and magical nature... UNPLAYABLE!!!! I want to retry this sometime in Hero system... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thia Halmades Posted January 17, 2008 Report Share Posted January 17, 2008 Re: Lewis Carrol Hero Well, it didn't work, but only because of a bad system (AD&D, 2nd ed...). Moreover, the characters were all level 20 to reflect their mysticall and magical nature... UNPLAYABLE!!!! I want to retry this sometime in Hero system... HERO. Because comparatively, everything else is f'ing unplayable. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aylwin13 Posted January 17, 2008 Report Share Posted January 17, 2008 Re: Lewis Carrol Hero HERO. Because comparatively' date=' everything else is f'ing unplayable.[/quote']I betcha DoJ would use this in an ad. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blue Jogger Posted January 17, 2008 Report Share Posted January 17, 2008 Re: Lewis Carrol Hero Snicker-snack!: 5D6 HKA, 0 END (112 Active Points); OAF (-1, The Original Vorpal Sword), Strength doesn't add to damage (-1/2), Total cost: 45 points Original concept by Lewis Carroll Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thia Halmades Posted January 17, 2008 Report Share Posted January 17, 2008 Re: Lewis Carrol Hero Gallumph: +6" Running Jaws that Bite: HKA 1 1/2d6, Red. Pen. Claws that Catch: HKA 2d6 Eyes of Flame: Infravision And Burbled as it Came: +20 PRE, Only to make/resist PRE Attacks Reputation: The Jabberwocky Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cancer Posted January 17, 2008 Report Share Posted January 17, 2008 Re: Lewis Carrol Hero You could amuse yourself for hours by concocting the dialog in the Mad Tea Party from which the PCs had to extract clues. "WTF is a 'treacle well', anyway?" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thia Halmades Posted January 17, 2008 Report Share Posted January 17, 2008 Re: Lewis Carrol Hero You could amuse yourself for hours by concocting the dialog in the Mad Tea Party from which the PCs had to extract clues. "WTF is a 'treacle well', anyway?" "You mean you don't know?!" "Okay, screw the well for the moment, when is the jam again?" "We have jam tomorrow, and jam yesterday, but never -- ever -- jam today." Me? I'm a Chesire Cat fan. "But how do you know that I'm mad?" asked Alice. "You must be," said the cat. "Else you wouldn't be here." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AliceTheOwl Posted January 17, 2008 Report Share Posted January 17, 2008 Well, if you wanted to go dark, you have a ton of source material to go by. Every modern update I've seen (save the Disney and CLAMP versions) is pretty nightmarish. Interesting, considering it was a kids' story told by a minister. The real challenge would be to keep the original absurdist tone intact without going dark, I'd think. But if the goal is to go dark, I don't think it would be much of a stretch. The characters fall into this world (how doesn't especially matter - if a campaign, that's how you get everyone together; if it's a plot arc, have it be a dimension-hop trap set up by a villain). The question is, is this just the Wonderland stuff, or would it also integrate Jabberwocky and the Looking Glass world? You probably wouldn't want to bog down a plot arc with all that stuff, but a whole game world could probably be constructed integrating your favorite Carroll elements. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vestnik Posted January 17, 2008 Author Report Share Posted January 17, 2008 Re: Lewis Carrol Hero I would include Through the Looking Glass, postulating that they are both part of the same world. I would also want to flesh the place out and make it more "real." For instance, does Wonderland have empires? Politics? Religion? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thia Halmades Posted January 17, 2008 Report Share Posted January 17, 2008 Re: Lewis Carrol Hero I would include Through the Looking Glass' date=' postulating that they are both part of the same world. I would also want to flesh the place out and make it more "real." For instance, does Wonderland have empires? Politics? Religion?[/quote'] Well, there's a Red Queen who took her lessons from a certain bunneh I know. It would go to figure there are kings, Dukes, Duchesses, and possibly a Black Queen, who (by advent of contrast) is not "evil" because she's black. May not be good either; might just be sufficient she isn't the Queen of Hearts. So you already have the Chess Sides and the four Royal Houses of Cards. Royal Houses of Cards. [343 Guilty Spark]Hmm hmm hmm! I am a genius![/343 Guilty Spark] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AliceTheOwl Posted January 17, 2008 Report Share Posted January 17, 2008 Re: Lewis Carrol Hero They never mention how the kings and queens come to power, but I would assume they're born/married into it. I can't imagine a populace putting up with the Red Queen, otherwise. Looking Glass and Wonderland certainly have different feels; Wonderland was written as a cute story for a very proper English girl, and Looking Glass was a mourning for lost things. (It was written just before the wedding of Alice Liddell.) So separating them out as different countries (or empires, or continents) would make a lot of sense. The vorpal sword is originally a Carroll creation, but I don't think it meant what it means in D&D now. You could make them a very common weapon, and throw the players for a loop when they don't cut limbs off regularly. Mome raths are, apparently, a type of rodent (at least, that's apparently what Carroll intended), and slithy toves are amphibious. For a low-level encounter, meeting either mome raths or slithy toves (or some combination thereof) could give the players a pretty good idea of where they are and what to expect. They could possibly be more dangerous at Brillig (halfway between tea-time and twilight, apparently). There seems to be a thread, throughout both stories, of stories and poems actually being real there. That could certainly be used to expand the potential of things to meet, explore and encounter. To fully preserve the feel, though, you'd probably need a certain sense of urgency in their mission in Wonderland. A lot of what Alice encountered was other people's adventures on her way to get home. She had her own goal and could really only talk to people about what they were up to; she was usually more of a bystander than a participator. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vestnik Posted January 17, 2008 Author Report Share Posted January 17, 2008 Re: Lewis Carrol Hero They never mention how the kings and queens come to power, but I would assume they're born/married into it. I can't imagine a populace putting up with the Red Queen, otherwise. Looking Glass and Wonderland certainly have different feels; Wonderland was written as a cute story for a very proper English girl, and Looking Glass was a mourning for lost things. (It was written just before the wedding of Alice Liddell.) So separating them out as different countries (or empires, or continents) would make a lot of sense. The vorpal sword is originally a Carroll creation, but I don't think it meant what it means in D&D now. You could make them a very common weapon, and throw the players for a loop when they don't cut limbs off regularly. Mome raths are, apparently, a type of rodent (at least, that's apparently what Carroll intended), and slithy toves are amphibious. For a low-level encounter, meeting either mome raths or slithy toves (or some combination thereof) could give the players a pretty good idea of where they are and what to expect. They could possibly be more dangerous at Brillig (halfway between tea-time and twilight, apparently). There seems to be a thread, throughout both stories, of stories and poems actually being real there. That could certainly be used to expand the potential of things to meet, explore and encounter. To fully preserve the feel, though, you'd probably need a certain sense of urgency in their mission in Wonderland. A lot of what Alice encountered was other people's adventures on her way to get home. She had her own goal and could really only talk to people about what they were up to; she was usually more of a bystander than a participator. I think perhaps I would have them drop in, wander about a bit, become pawns (ha ha) in some internal Wonderlandian power struggle, and then transcend that story into a larger arc. Which is pretty much what Alice did now that I think of it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AliceTheOwl Posted January 17, 2008 Report Share Posted January 17, 2008 Re: Lewis Carrol Hero Pretty much, yeah. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thia Halmades Posted January 17, 2008 Report Share Posted January 17, 2008 Re: Lewis Carrol Hero There seems to be a thread' date=' throughout both stories, of stories and poems actually being real there. That could certainly be used to expand the potential of things to meet, explore and encounter.[/quote'] Which really blows the possibilities wide open, depending upon who's poetry you use to evoke what imagery; Ogden Nash will add a touch of the absurd, while Keats the mourning & poetic, and of course, EAP. Oh, I feel evil just considering it. Maybe we'll work in a bit of "Kubla Kahn" while we're at it. Coleridge, IIRC. And of course, The Divine Comedy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AliceTheOwl Posted January 17, 2008 Report Share Posted January 17, 2008 Re: Lewis Carrol Hero I was thinking about maybe running into Childe Roland. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thia Halmades Posted January 17, 2008 Report Share Posted January 17, 2008 Re: Lewis Carrol Hero I was thinking about maybe running into Childe Roland. Or we can go all the way back to the source and The Song of Roland, or even The Faerie Queen if we really wanna break out the nerd hats. I got so much static for reading that book... "Hey, Thia, are you a fag?" "Wait, what are you talking about?" "Faerie Queen! HA HA HA!" "Ingrate." Then there was the justice that came from sparring practice. "I'm gonna fight Thia!" (and the entire group glanced around nervously) Thia picks up his trusty two-handed boffer and spins it casually, before dropping into a wide middle-guard combat stance. "Bring it." Thia proceeds to tear his opposition to pieces, landing three blows in under seven seconds before the ref can call a Hold. This repeated for about an hour before the idiot gave up. I don't even remember his name anymore. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Curufea Posted January 17, 2008 Report Share Posted January 17, 2008 Re: Lewis Carrol Hero You'd have to be careful that it didn't come of a bit too "Toon" - there is a disjoint from reality that need to be managed. So I'd make sure I understood the rules of the reality first - or it could be all anvils from the sky. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thia Halmades Posted January 17, 2008 Report Share Posted January 17, 2008 Re: Lewis Carrol Hero Or the psychedelic inspired live-action version done in the 80s with Scott Baio, which is tragic only because he's the only thing I really remember. That and the Red Queen and things moving by really really fast. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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