High-End Autofire

[SuperPheemy]

In my tinkering with some weapons builds, I've noticed that volume-fire weapons like Electric Gatling Guns often have hideous amounts of Autofire (20 shots+). Not having the old 5ER close by invokes the question. What good is Autofire above 10 shots? Even if your CV is so high as to make the attack roll 17-, the best one can hope for is 8 hits on a single target. Taking a -10 OCV penalty to attack 10 targets is pretty impractical in and of itself.

 

I can't shake the feeling I'm missing something.

[Captain Obvious]

Re: High-End Autofire

 

If you're in a situation where collateral damage is a plus, it's pretty good to have. But yeah, without a really good OCV and/or a really good roll, AF above 3 isn't the best use of ammo.

 

The early editions of Hero gave a +4 bonus to autofire, and while recoil does throw off the aim, throwing out a lot of lead should (at least cinematically) make it easier to hit something.

 

I suppose shooting at things with really low DCVs makes huge autofire numbers workable. Although I may be ignoring the rules as written when I let someone shoot the crap out of large vehicles with high autofire weapons.

[ghost-angel]

Re: High-End Autofire

 

Autofire Skills would start to come into play as Extremely Dangerous instead of just Very Dangerous.

[Edsel]

Re: High-End Autofire

 

In Heroic level games our group uses a house rule that grants an OCV bonus for higher rates of autofire. If the weapon has an OCV bonus the character can chose to either use that bonus or the one given below.

 

AF 1-3 = +0

AF 4-7 = +1

AF 8-15 = +2

AF 16-31 = +3

AF 32-63 = +4

AF 64+ = +5

[SuperPheemy]

Re: High-End Autofire

 

I was thinking of using Area of Effect (Selective) and an increase in DC (to simulate that targets seldom get hit with a single bullet when attacked with a minigun) of a value similar to the Advantage of the high Autofire level. We could go further to limit "Selective" down to the hex level. That way the wall of lead is still somewhat controllable, just not surgically precise (don't shoot your M134 into melee!)

[AmadanNaBriona]

Re: High-End Autofire

 

I've had a number of thoughts on the same subject, and have come up with both House rule options and rules legal ones.

 

by the RAW, I totally agree with you, high ROF autofire weapons aren't a very good simulation of how they work in RL. With no other modifications, your best option for getting the most effect from a high AF weapon is to use the Supression Fire maneuver. You can lay down a very effective zone of "don't go there, or get hosed" with that many shots.

 

If you're reengineering them, your option of an AOE works, but can be a bit odd in play. Most of the time however, it works fine. I've done it as a Non Selective AOE line Autofire before and it does a pretty good job of approximating the "1 bullet in every square inch" effect M134 gunners sometimes brag about.

 

Another approach I've considered is to build a rotary gun "by the barrel", and use a big MPA to make the attack. Hideously effective, and probably pretty realistic.

 

Any other options get into house rule territory. Ever since 4th came out and they dropped the +4 OCV from autofire, whist dropping "standard" AF down to 5 shots, we've used a "Trade one potential hit for a +1 OCV" option that works fairly well, tho it does mean that really high ROF weapons seldom miss if concentrated on a single target. Not terribly Heroic, but probably fairly accurate.

 

The simple fact that the really high ROF weapons like miniguns were expressly designed to hit very fast moving targets by virtue of filling the air with a cloud of bullets makes the current function of AF very much a construct of game balance rather than Realism, IMHO.

[Vondy]

Re: High-End Autofire

 

In my tinkering with some weapons builds, I've noticed that volume-fire weapons like Electric Gatling Guns often have hideous amounts of Autofire (20 shots+). Not having the old 5ER close by invokes the question. What good is Autofire above 10 shots? Even if your CV is so high as to make the attack roll 17-, the best one can hope for is 8 hits on a single target. Taking a -10 OCV penalty to attack 10 targets is pretty impractical in and of itself.

 

I can't shake the feeling I'm missing something.

 

I've traditionally built autocannons as AE Line and AF 3 or 5. This simulates a hail of lead fairly well while keeping the total number of potential hits per target down, which is a good balancing factor. High-volume automatic weapoins aren't precision weapons, you just hose down an area with them. That's what they were designed for. And characters who aren't bulletproof can always "dive for cover," which is probably the best course of action when faced with that kind of whithering firepower, anyways.

[Wyrm Ouroboros]

Re: High-End Autofire

 

... high ROF autofire weapons aren't a very good simulation of how they work in RL. With no other modifications, your best option for getting the most effect from a high AF weapon is to use the Supression Fire maneuver. You can lay down a very effective zone of "don't go there, or get hosed" with that many shots.

 

This -- suppression fire -- is where high-autofire weapons come into their own. You can suppress a number of hexes (or hex rows) up to the number of rounds you can Autofire. (This is also where 'one bullet per inch' comes into play.) With 'Accurate Sprayfire', you're receiving only a -1 for ALL your suppression fire, instead of -1 per hex row fired into.

 

Now, my house rule is that you can 'suppress a line', but only a maximum number of targets can be hit per hex line equal to the number of rounds you put into that line; your AF 20, poured into 5 hex lines, can hit up to 4 people per line per segment; if Target A runs across your five hex lines (and is thus attacked 5 times) but is only hit twice (once in each of two hex lines), then those 2 specific hex lines can only hit 4 more people -- while the other 3 hex lines can still hit 5 people. If, by some miracle, you hit 20 targets, anyone beyond them won't be attacked at all, because all the rounds have been 'soaked up' already.

 

Firing 20, 40, or 80 rounds can therefore be nice and nasty. To cut down on the damage rolling, I also use Standard Effect for this sort of thing.

 

IMO, if you've got a gatling weapon -- or really, any autofire weapon, such as a 'rapid-fire skill to shoot my bow' -- Suppression Fire is the only way to go. Your targets are simply 'attacked' just for being in the hex. And if you've spent 5 points, it's like attacking every target in your line of hexes as many Segments as they stay in them (remember, once per segment!!) with only a -3 to your OCV. For example:

 

Arrow Storm: Energy Blast 3d6 (standard effect: 9 STUN, 3 BODY) (vs. PD), Reduced Endurance (0 END; Functionally Limitless Supply; +1), Autofire (20 shots; +1 1/2) (52 Active Points); Concentration, Must Concentrate throughout use of Constant Power (1/2 DCV; -1/2), OIF (Flatspace Tech Bracers; -1/2), Required Hands Two-Handed (-1/2), Incantations ("Rapid Fire"; -1/4), Real Weapon (-1/4)

 

Great for hosing down large quantities of mooks, especially if you have a normally high OCV; after all, how many of them can take four shots of 9 STUN, 3 BODY in the one SPD 3 phase they spend charging towards you? 36 STUN, from which they'll only likely soak 12; heaven help them if they cross into another hex line...

[Chris Goodwin]

Re: High-End Autofire

 

In my tinkering with some weapons builds, I've noticed that volume-fire weapons like Electric Gatling Guns often have hideous amounts of Autofire (20 shots+). Not having the old 5ER close by invokes the question. What good is Autofire above 10 shots? Even if your CV is so high as to make the attack roll 17-, the best one can hope for is 8 hits on a single target. Taking a -10 OCV penalty to attack 10 targets is pretty impractical in and of itself.

 

I can't shake the feeling I'm missing something.

 

If you have ridiculous OCV, you can get your Attack Roll up to, say, 25-. Roll a 3 on that and you hit with 12 shots....

[Wyrm Ouroboros]

Re: High-End Autofire

 

If you have ridiculous OCV' date=' you can get your Attack Roll up to, say, 25-. Roll a 3 on that and you hit with 12 shots....[/quote']

 

Or they're SPD 3 and they stumble into your Accurate Sprayfire Suppression hexes, then you don't need a ridiculous OCV -- just enough to hit them regularly. Don't shoot at them, hose down the area they're in.