Armor Penalties, what do you use.

[Demonsong]

Armor Penalties, what do you use.

 

 

I was just wondering what armor penalties, if any; you use in your FH games or the games you play in. The new FH (Did I mention I love that Book!!) give several options. And I am not sure what options(s) I should use.

 

And do you put a penalty on magic of wearing armor?

[Derek Hiemforth]

I haven't examined the new options too closely. These are the alternate encumbrance rules I used under 4th Edition:

 

http://www.rhinobunny.com/derek/champions/encumbrance.pdf

[Old Man]

I will probably go back to using a DCV penalty based on total mass, and not bring STR into it at all. I can see basing it on STR being more realistic, but it doubles the complexity; I'd rather handwave that and say that stronger characters are bigger and are actually wearing more than the stated weight. Besides, STR is already too valuable.

 

My second choice would be to go with FREd encumbrance penalties, but based on casual STR, with an additional DCV penalty for rigid armor.

[slaughterj]

Haven't looked at 5ed FH, but running FH under 5e before, I used 4ed FH rules, rather than 5ed Hero rules.

[Locnar]

I like DEX caps. Set a maximum usable DEX for what you are wearing. It really makes the choice between "heavy fighter" and "light fighter" stand out. Plus, those thieves wont be wearing chainmail either. It also gives a little less utility to high STR. This is good if you feel that 1 point STR is too cheap in fantasy hero.

 

Also, for mages, you can also set a maximum only for the purposes of calculationg your magic skill roll. That's kinda a mouthfull, but the effect is heavy armour lowers your magic skill roll. Keeps those mages out of armour too!

 

This is of course if you are going for a DnD style armour usage.

 

--Locnar

[Rob_Knotts]

I'm still mulling over how I want handle armor, but what thing I'm pretty sure I will do is make players pay for it with points. My players and most fantasy players I've met simply never remove thier armour during gameplay. If they want armour to be such a ubiquitous feature of thier character, they can pay for it with points. OIF and Real Armour will be required as well, I'm not sure about encumberance yet.

[Dauntless]

The greatest penalties for armor use should be on the long term effects of wearing armor. To put it bluntly, it's stupid to wear heavy armor all day long. In the battle for Stamford Bridge in 1066 (just before Hastings), the English caught Norwegians off guard and mostly out of armor...probably accounting a good deal for how they beat the Vikings (and why the losses they incurred here may have cost the English to lose against the Normans). Why weren't the Vikings wearing their chainmail? Because it was hot and they were tired. And remember, the Vikings were much larger and physically strong people compared to most other Europeans (King Harald Hardrada was almost 7' tall and over 300lbs...at a time when most europeans were about 5'4" or so....you can see why most Europeans were scared to death of the taller stronger Scandinavians).

 

Also, some armor may not be restricting in movement, but it DOES make you slower to react. When you've got even just a pound or two on your arm, it's harder to react (as an exercise, wear a simple 1lb wrist weight and do simple tasks....your mobility isn't restricted, but you'll be slower at doing them).

 

There's also the long terms costs of wearing armor as mentioned in FH. Armor must be repaired after taking damage, and it needs to be serviced or it "falls apart".

 

In game effects, I would do the following:

1. Impose the limitation that a character does not get his free END recovery in segment 12. STR just means how much you can carry...it doesn't imply endurance at all (for example, some powerlifters might be able to bench press 600lbs for one rep....but they couldn't walk with a 80lb backpack all day....REC would be the applicable stat to use to make a character who had long term endurance).

2. Impose a 1END cost for every 10lbs of armor.

3. I would also subtract -1DEX for every point of DEF, but it only affects initiative and speed. When a character has 5pts of Armor, he loses 1 SPD (and it would take 15pts of DEF to lose 2 SPD).

4. I would also lose -1DEX for every 4 points of DEF that DOES affect Combat Values and DEX skill rolls (contrary to belief, armor is somewhat restrictive).

5. Either make armor ablative, or do the suggested keeping count of BODY of the armor itself. Plate gets bashed in, has the leather straps tear off (if you ever watch Excalibur...watch how King Arthur's armor gets torn up by Lancelot's attacks) and gaps are exposed.

 

That should definitely make characters realize that armor has its price, and that skill of arms is just as important.

[Ulryk]

My proposed armor house rules for my campaign starting in September:

(Help, Suggestions, and “ARE YOU NUTS!?!†greatly appreciated, not to mention deperately needed )

 

I used the mixed piece optional armor rules.

Penalties for mixed sets are usually resolved by some mutually agreeable common sense averaging with Breastplates and Leggings counting as two pieces of armor each.

 

All armor requires a WF: Armor (Type) If you wear armor without the requisite training you double all applicable penalties.

 

There are 6 types of armor, and two groups.

Each WF: Armor (Type) is 1 point, or the a group can be had for 2 points

 

WF: Flexible Armor

Flexible Light, Flexible Medium, and Flexible Heavy

 

WF: Rigid Armor

Rigid Light, Rigid Medium, and Rigid Heavy

 

Heavy Armor is a –2 DCV

Medium Armor is a –1 DCV

 

Rigid Armor is –DEF to Dex rolls

Flexible Armor is – ½ DEF to Dex rolls (round down)

 

Any metal armor also contributes a –DEF penalty to magic rolls

Metal Reinforced non-metal armor contributes a penalty to magic rolls equal to the difference of the reinforced version from it’s base, with a minimum of 1.

 

Rigid armor covering the arms gives a penalty to Ranged OCV equal to its penalty to DCV. (i.e. a full suit of rigid heavy armor gives a –2 OCV to ranged combat, an archer wearing rigid medium leather pauldrons or vambraces will have a –1 OCV to ranged combat.) This is NOT cumulative, but any one piece of armor that gives these penalties will suffice to earn the penalty.

 

Flexible armor cannot be built with the ‘hardened’ advantage. (This is more of a disadvantage than it seems. There are plenty of mundane armor piercing weapons in my campaign and most can be had at reasonable cost.)

 

Tailored armor halves any applicable penalties. (round down) But is 10 times as expensive. (as long as you are of typical humanoid build)

 

There are a number of materials that will alter the armor’s penalties. (i.e. Bone, Mithril, Adamantine, Wood, Eog, Ithloss, Laen, etc.) and there are a few magical treatments that will alter their penalties. (Ask your Friendly Local Armor Enchanter [FLAE]. But be prepared to pay…) [partially detailed but definitely not tested]

 

This system does not take weight into account. I usually just play encumbrance by ear as it can be a lot of game slowing book keeping that usually has little effect on play. If the player starts carrying everything he can find I just start applying invisible penalties and warn him that he feels overburdened. If they ignore these warnings, then they begin to drop things as they lose control of their inventory. (items they had before they became the party ox are best )

 

This is how the armors listed in FH break down…

 

Flexible Light Armor

Heavy Cloth

Padded Cloth

Woven Cord

Soft Leather

 

Flexible Medium Armor

Heavy Leather

Heavy Animal Hides

 

Flexible Heavy Armor

Chainmail

Double Mail/Bar mail

Reinforced Mail

 

Rigid Light Armor

Cuir-Bouilli

Brigandine

 

Rigid Medium Armor

Lamellar

Banded

Plate and Chain

 

Rigid Heavy Armor

Plate Armor

Field Plate Armor

Full Plate Armor

 

There are other base armor types but they are rare, expensive and the GM’s secret.

[Catseye]

I havent seen the FH yet (my FLGS's destributor is backordered ).

 

I developed my own D&Dish system awhile back.

 

Basically there are armor use skills you need to have (light, medium,heavy, sheild) and then armor has STR minimums and DCv minuses.

[Herolover]

Not changing a thing.

 

I guess I am different, because I am not changing any rules on armor. I am keeping the 5e encumbrance rules and not giving any extra DCV penalties or anything to armor. Crazy you say...maybe, however I am doing somethings to restrict armor usage.

 

1) Metal armor is EXPENSIVE. Not something the average joe is going to be able to afford. Even chainmail is relatively expensive. This means the common armor is going to be leather.

 

2) Wearing armor around all the time is NOT going to be accepted. I am going to be using Long Term Endurance rules to ensure that if you wear armor all day by the time the battle gets around you are going to be sucking END. Also, there is the social disadvantage of wearing armor around. Most people are not going to be happy seeing people walking around in any kind of heavy armor.

 

3) Armor is going to need to be routinely maintained. Several silver pieces a month (I use a silver standard not a gold standard) will be required to just maintain armor. Without this expenditure armor will loose some effectiveness (DEF) and and become worn and harder to wear (DEX penalty and/or more END usage.).

 

4) Once in battle the armor will sustain damage. This damage will be something like the lose of effectiveness above, but with more damage it will be more and more difficult to maintain the armor. This will require major cash expenditures in repairing the amor (what will the character wear in the meantime) and will, in some cases, require the replacement of armor.

 

Basically I am using RP methods to limit the usage of armor.

[Old Man]

I would the FREd encumbrance rules and Casual STR ratings - this really makes a lot of sense.

 

As an option you can also impose DCV/Skill penalties for rigid armor.

 

The good thing about basing penalties on mass/weight is that you can figure out penalties for partial armor.

 

If you're going to have Armor Skills it would be good to have the various types of armor have inherent penalties. The Armor Skill would be defined as a Penalty Skill Level to negate DCV mods from the armor.

[AnotherSkip]

Originally posted by Dauntless

Why weren't the Vikings wearing their chainmail? Because it was hot and they were tired.

 

Well I have ta agree with you part of the way on that.

 

Yes they were hot, have any idea what the average ambient tempture difference is between Norway and England?

 

Try training in armor in Canda and then try doing the same thing in Kansas. Biiiiiiiiig difference.

 

ever hear of heatstroke, and do you know how to prevent it?

 

now then if it was the English caught off guard against the Norweignas I might buy your story....

[Captain Obvious]

The RP aspects are the way to go. Make armor expensive. Make it socially unacceptable. Make characters suffer heatstrokes at appropriate times. Have attacks come at night, when the characters are sleeping (and if they sleep in armor, give them huge penalties from sore muscles and stiff necks). Have them fight in boats, on bridges, etc, where falling in heavy armor means death.

[Nemmie]

If I get fed up with people wearing heavy armour, I throw them in the water.

[Demonsong]

If I get fed up with people wearing heavy armour, I throw them in the water.

 

The characters or the players?

[Dauntless]

AnotherSkip-

It was probably a combination of surprise and heat. According to history it was a hot day (though of course there's no quantifiable measurement of the temperature but it is mentioned that it was hot enough for many of the Norwegians to have been swimming in the river), and the Norwegians were caught off guard. They hadn't expected any English troops in the area since King Harold (the Saxon king's name was Harold, the Viking's king's name was Harald) forced marched his men an amazing distance that the Viking's hadn't expected.

 

But the point is that even the one's on garrison duty weren't armored. Meaning that you don't get dressed up to go to a fight unless you expect one. This puts to silly rest the idea that a character could wear armor 24 hours a day.