The power of Recovery

[Steve]

Back in an early Champions campaign (3rd Edition), one of my friends came up with a pretty effective brick. In addition to decent offense and defense, but not to overly-potent levels, he had one extra ability that turned out to be pretty effective: a 50 Recovery. He'd get whomped down to near zero, take a recovery, and be back to nearly full STUN and END.

 

Has anyone else built high-REC characters? What has been your experience with them in terms of combat effectiveness?

[Vulcan]

Re: The power of Recovery

 

Oh yeah, a REALLY high REC can be a lifesaver in a fight. Bricks can be very hard to keep down because they tend to have higher REC than most other characters (High base REC from STR and CON, and they usually buy more). Overdrive Energy Projectors (with extra dice of EB at x10 END) are also kinda hard to beat down as well, because the points they saved on the extra dice of EB go straight into REC.

[tesuji]

Re: The power of Recovery

 

in the modern version there could be some tactical problems...

 

if you take damage during aphase when you take a recovery, you lose the recovery iirc.

 

Also being at 1/2 dcv makes you easily hit by rapid fire attacks, so a brikc standing down becomes a prime target for even more incoming damage than usual.

 

now that affects the "take recoveries" but the post-12 recovery is still fine.

 

I could also see it as a kind of limited use "time stop" where a character steps out and takes a breather" with sfx being say something like +30 recovery (or whatever value is sufficient for one recovery to completely replenish his stun/end) possibly with charges.

 

I did build a martial artist once with a very high body/recovery/regen set and she was nicknamed the weeble cause she kept getting knocked "out" but getting back up.

[Markdoc]

Re: The power of Recovery

 

My very first ever Hero system character was a brick with 30 REC. I'd say he was .... moderately effective. It was true that he was a binary character - he was either fine, or deeply unconscious. With a more efficient build, he could actually have been a pretty viable character. Alas, he wasn't an efficient build: the only reason he ended up with a 30 REC in the first place is because I didn't know about reduced END at the time.

 

cheers, Mark

[Comic]

Re: The power of Recovery

 

Recovery is the bane of Killing Attacks.

 

If you plink against someone with monster Recovery, then they're back in the fight, and you've lost a round and wasted an attack.

 

It also blunts special attacks, like Ego Attack, that cost a lot to do Stun-only damage. So you do 3d6 Stun per attack and hit three times a Turn? At 30 REC, Post 12's mean you've pretty much just stood there causing a headache to the Brick.

[Vulcan]

Re: The power of Recovery

 

Yes, a high (30+) REC character can be a very frustrating foe to fight. You've almost got him out, then here comes PS-12 and he's halfway back to full...

[Sean Waters]

Re: The power of Recovery

 

A high REC makes a character more effective, but it is debateable whether, except in some rare circumstances, REC is the most efficient thing to spend limited points on.

[Marcus]

Re: The power of Recovery

 

I think on the whole REC is -not- a great place to spend points (if your squeezing every last bit of oomph out of the points).

+1 Recovery is great, but +1 OCV with your favourite attack, it is not.

 

The thing about recovery is that it TENDS to be one of those things that slips under a GMs radar.. its a place to spend points, to make your character more effective, that isn't DCs, CV, DEF, or SPD.

 

Similarly, stun. Buying more stun is almost always worse than buying more DEF... but if youve already got all the DEF your allowed, buying more stun can be a good thing...

[Sean Waters]

Re: The power of Recovery

 

Also, since the time it takes you to RECover is determined by how far below zero you fall and that is now a set amount (-10) as opposed to a variable amount, as it used to be (-REC), a huge REC is not going to help if someone hit you hard enough because you will not be recovering fast enough to matter once you are KO'd. Furthermore, coup de grace rules mean that, unless you are KO'd on phase 12, or the opponent hasn't the time or inclination to finish you off, a big REC is pretty pointless once you are under.

[Beast]

Re: The power of Recovery

 

super hi recoveries will work well so long as the Hi Rec character does not dominate the battle

if he does then other side should gang bang the hi Rec character and put him down past PS12

[Markdoc]

Re: The power of Recovery

 

As an aside, damage reduction and a high recovery might make for a useful combo...

 

Cheers, Mark

[Sean Waters]

Re: The power of Recovery

 

super hi recoveries will work well so long as the Hi Rec character does not dominate the battle

if he does then other side should gang bang the hi Rec character and put him down past PS12

 

Good Lord, that's a bit harsh, isn't it?

[Vulcan]

Re: The power of Recovery

 

Oh, yes, Markdoc, you are sooooo right. I had a brick with 20 PD, 50% Physical Reduction, and a 30 CON and REC. I specialized in fighting other bricks, who just couldn't hit him hard enough fast enough to put him out.

 

Energy projectors, on the other hand, blasted against a 20 ED and had a bit easier time of it...

[PhilFleischmann]

Re: The power of Recovery

 

As an aside' date=' damage reduction and a high recovery might make for a useful combo... [/quote']

Yes, but I don't think it's overly powerful, especially if regular defenses are not that high.

 

One of my characters is a "recovery monster". He has Damage Reduction (50% Physical and Energy IIRC), but fairly low PD/ED, and about 30 REC (and a lot of Regen as well). He's actually rather easy to put down, but hard to *keep* down. His favorite move is to fall to the ground in a bloody mess under a hail of machine gun fire, and immediately get back up! (Very scary-looking PRE attack) "Congratulations! You killed me! Didn't help, did it?"

 

In general, I have found that high REC is not particularly effective, but it can be a lot of fun for certain concepts. DEF is usually better. Another example of "An ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure."

[SSgt Baloo]

Re: The power of Recovery

 

His favorite move is to fall to the ground in a bloody mess under a hail of machine gun fire' date=' and immediately get back up! (Very scary-looking PRE attack) "Congratulations! You killed me! Didn't help, did it?"[/quote']

 

I love that character and I've never met him. Is he posted anywhere I can look?

[mojo_bones]

Re: The power of Recovery

 

As an aside, damage reduction and a high recovery might make for a useful combo...

 

Cheers, Mark

 

That is a character concept I have tried to play in several campaigns, but have never done. It seems it would be a pretty good combo. Maybe some day...

[CptPatriot]

Re: The power of Recovery

 

How about that combined with extra Stun, just to push you higher in the recovery table when KO'd?

[Killer Shrike]

Re: The power of Recovery

 

By itself REC is of limited usefulness, but it can be a _very_ effective thing with builds that find synergy with it.

 

I use high recs on a lot of different characters, PCs and NPCs both, many of them presented on my site. I've had many different players and GM's over the years comment on their surprise at how effective it is.

 

I also allow "super-skill" like uses of REC for a certain purpose, the most common being Only When Taking A Recovery Action (which can also be paired w/ +DCV only while taking a recovery in combat for a nice combo). Another thing I've allowed is REC on charges, allowing a character an effect like a "Second Wind". Etc.

 

It's also good for "Regenerators" to help model their ability to take damage but shrug it off. Regen covers BODY, REC covers STUN.

 

A word of warning, combined w/ Damage Reduction its quite powerful. A character with 50% DmgR and a 20 REC is getting back the equivalent of 40 STUN per REC. A character with 75% DmgR and "only" a 10 REC is too. Not saying you shouldn't allow it, just pointing out its good synergy.

 

I could cite dozens of characters with high REC, but a character in particular that was sort of built around a "last man standing" / heroic last stand concept is War-Man, particularly the high powered version. Check the Blaster Form -- in addition to a 20 REC the character also has

 

AGAINST ALL ODDS (Only Usable Vs Opponents With 100+ Greater Character Points Or In Hopeless Situations)

17 1) Determined: +30 STUN (30 Active Points)

21 2) Stalwart: Armor (10 PD/10 ED), Hardened (+1/4) (37 Active Points) 0

23 3) Perserverance: +20 REC (40 Active Points)

 

wherein he picks up another +20 REC.

 

 

It's an interesting effect that allows the character to scale well and face down opponents that technically are more powerful, but is corresponding 60ish points weaker against "equal" opponents.

 

Etc etc

[Killer Shrike]

Re: The power of Recovery

 

Tangentially, I have a house rule that I use that modifies the sub-0 Recovery chart. Rather than the default one in the book, I measure the categories in increments of negative CON. So if a character has a 10 CON its more or less the same, but a character with a 20 CON is much more likely to get up faster as the steps are based on 20 point increments vs 10 point increments, and so on. This obviously makes REC more attractive in my campaigns.

[SSgt Baloo]

Re: The power of Recovery

 

Tangentially' date=' I have a house rule that I use that modifies the sub-0 Recovery chart. Rather than the default one in the book, I measure the categories in increments of negative CON. So if a character has a 10 CON its more or less the same, but a character with a 20 CON is much more likely to get up faster as the steps are based on 20 point increments vs 10 point increments, and so on. This obviously makes REC more attractive in my campaigns.[/quote']

 

That's how I prefer to do it in my Superhero campaigns. Heroic and lower just gets the multiples-of-ten rule. And mooks, the poor slobs!.

[Beast]

Re: The power of Recovery

 

in the face to face game I play in at caltech

we use multiples of body for unconscience levels

 

Tangentially' date=' I have a house rule that I use that modifies the sub-0 Recovery chart. Rather than the default one in the book, I measure the categories in increments of negative CON. So if a character has a 10 CON its more or less the same, but a character with a 20 CON is much more likely to get up faster as the steps are based on 20 point increments vs 10 point increments, and so on. This obviously makes REC more attractive in my campaigns.[/quote']

[PhilFleischmann]

Re: The power of Recovery

 

I love that character and I've never met him. Is he posted anywhere I can look?

No, but I've mentioned him before on the boards. His name is "Mr. Boddy" - after the murder victim from the boardgame "Clue". Maybe I'll post the complete writeup when I get a round tuitt.

[SteveZilla]

Re: The power of Recovery

 

A word of warning' date=' combined w/ Damage Reduction its quite powerful. A character with 50% DmgR and a 20 REC is getting back the equivalent of 40 STUN per REC. A character with 75% DmgR and "only" a 10 REC is too. Not saying you shouldn't allow it, just pointing out its good synergy.

 

And you get even more bang for your buck if you add Absorption to STUN as well. Absorption + Damage Reduction sometimes mean that an attack that gets though defenses will result in the character *gaining* STUN. And IIRC the elevated STUN can be RECovered back after taking damage as long as it hasn't faded yet -- making Absorptions that fade slower than 5 pts per Turn very nice.

[Comic]

Re: The power of Recovery

 

So.. What about an advantage for a character to recover from Drains and Transfers at a faster rate?

 

How would you build, say, a Speedster who instead of losing STR that recovers at 5 points every 5 minutes, recovers it at 5 points per Turn? Is there a better way than limited Healing?

[Rapier]

Re: The power of Recovery

 

A decent REC is a good thing for ANY character to have. My EPer only has a 30 END and when you start tossing around 75 AP attacks, he runs out pretty quick.

 

My 4 REC just doesn't cut the mustard. Two recoveries just barely give him enough to throw another blast...and with a 3 SPD that is 1 attack and 2 REC that takes up his entire turn.

 

STUN is also a problem for my poor, poor blaster guy. He was just recently sitting at -10 STUN. It's going to take 3 phases (a full turn) for him to get positive. That's a lot of time to be sitting out.

 

But more to the point, is REC a one-stop-shop? Nope. Focusing all efforts on REC is no more effective than putting it all into STUN or PD. A character MUST be well rounded. REC is merely one facet of a viable defense. The character must have enough STUN and END to last a few phases, a bit of DEF to whittle down those attacks to something manageable, etc.

 

REC can be powerful. It can really save your bacon, but you cannot rely on it solely. A character that relies too heavily on REC will find themselves yo-yoing between unconsciousness and full STUN (and END). There won't be much in the middle. Is this necessarily better than a character that spends most of the time at half STUN (and END)? Probably not.