SSgt Baloo Posted October 18, 2008 Report Share Posted October 18, 2008 I really think this BBS should have a central forum for materials usable in multiple genres for threads such as this. I'm posting it in Champions since superheroes frequently find themselves in What-If worlds. Warning: If you are a decent human being you may find some of these videos offensive (and possibly NSFW). The first vid I found is a music video based on the book (or possibly the movie) Fatherland. In it Germany won the war in Europe and there was a cold war between the US and Greater Germania (most of Europe). Sampolit film: Germania What if the Confederate States of America had won the "War Between the States"? C.S.A.: The Confedrate States Of America - Trailer - 2004 Having read the WorldWar/Colonization series by Harry Turtledove, I find this one particularly cool*: World War Two: An Alternate History Pt1. If anyone has links to Alternate History resources, post links to them here. * Apparently so did the guy(s) who did this. There's a WorldWar credit at the end of Part II. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aylwin13 Posted October 18, 2008 Report Share Posted October 18, 2008 Re: What-If (WhIf) Setting Resources I saw the C.S.A. film about a month ago. It was quite good, if not very disturbing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Haven Walkur Posted October 18, 2008 Report Share Posted October 18, 2008 Re: What-If (WhIf) Setting Resources Fascinating stuff, SSgt Baloo. You're right about the potential usefulness of an Alternate History archive for superhero gamers. I was impressed by the high quality of the Fatherland (Hitler victorious) footage; it was very convincing. The WWII/alien invasion montage was also quite convincing, and very well-executed. However, I thought the C.S.A. footage wasn't as well done as the rest. While it had some real gems (the Home Shopping channel selling black slaves, the schoolchildren saying the Pledge of Allegiance), that grating "we're only joking, no offense intended" quality was distracting and annoying throughout. I'm guessing it was due to the video-makers trying to avoid being tarred with the "racist" brush...but it just ended up making the footage unconvincing. As far as disturbance value...well, yes, I have to admit, I *did* find the Fatherland footage disturbing. It was that convincing depiction of a post-WWII setting where the Nazi flag -- something we've always been encouraged to think of as a symbol of ultimate evil -- has become mundane and commonplace...and so has what it represents. (Of course, my being English-born and raised may have something to that one of the three snippets being the most unsettling to me.) The C.S.A. selection did have a little of that "ultimate evil made commonplace" effect, too, especially when it showed how slavery was integrated with "real life," but the apologetic, "only joking" tone undermined the entire piece. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hfergus Posted October 19, 2008 Report Share Posted October 19, 2008 Re: What-If (WhIf) Setting Resources I had a multiple month setting where the heroes ended up in a world where Nazi Germany won. Not the whole campaign though. Germany came up with the atmonic bomb first and had their jet planes earlier (they had them first - it was just just too late). London was still glowing into the 80's. America was under Nazi occupation. There was an American resistance, but very small as the Nazis had ICBMs and nuked Stalingrad that way. They controlled most of the world, with Japan controlling the rest. - And war with Japan was coming. Hilter was still alive and fairly young due to a process that kept him young - but he was not going to live much longer. He kept all the ICBMs in very secure spot due to paranoia after an incident where one nearly got loose. Most supers were Nazis, and very low power. My heroes hooked up with the American resistence (co- lead by a Republican and a Democrat) but that worked poorly. Chicago was nuked as "a criminal city in open rebellion". They ended up at the secure facility and nuked it with Hitler present. Even though the situation was not toally over, they then went home. The other incidents cited in this post never happened, and do not currently fit the tone of my current campaign. Pretty satisfying to nuke Hitler, even though this world was pretty dark. We were happy to get back home - and make sure Doctor Destroyer did not do the same. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Princedarkstorm Posted October 19, 2008 Report Share Posted October 19, 2008 Re: What-If (WhIf) Setting Resources What if games are always good to run ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Redmenace Posted October 20, 2008 Report Share Posted October 20, 2008 Re: What-If (WhIf) Setting Resources Here is a link a to David Brin's WW2 alternate novella "Thor meets Captain America" offered free by the author. http://www.davidbrin.com/thor1.html Personally, I love the depiction of the Aesir. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cassandra Posted October 20, 2008 Report Share Posted October 20, 2008 Re: What-If (WhIf) Setting Resources Peter G. Tsouras has written several alternate history books including Third Reich Victorious and Rising Sun Victorious. Harry Turtledove had written countless book in alternate history, the best being Guns of the South where time travellers give Robert E. Lee a supply of AK-47s. S.M. Stirling has written Marching Through Georgia, Under the Yoke, and the Stone Dogs all set in an alternate 20th Century. Ward Moore wrote the classic alternate civil war book, Bring the Jubilee. Alan Moore's Watchman Series (and upcoming movie) is also alternate history. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SSgt Baloo Posted October 20, 2008 Author Report Share Posted October 20, 2008 Re: What-If (WhIf) Setting Resources Alan Moore's Watchman Series (and upcoming movie) is also alternate history. As was the Wildcards series edited by George R.R. Martin. Good stuff, all! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ian Mackinder Posted October 21, 2008 Report Share Posted October 21, 2008 Re: What-If (WhIf) Setting Resources A few AH books I would like to mention. Great if you are running a ww2 game, but want to keep the PCs properly off-balance ("OK, the Battle of Midway is next month, so we should .... "). 'Triumph' by Ben Bova. Novel. Closing stages of ww2. "What If" Churchill secretly plotted to assassinate Stalin? Interesting implications all round. 'The Battle Of Sydney' by John Vader. I have to mention this because it was my first-ever contact with Alternate Histories, way way back in early high school. Basically, the US is briefly put on the defensive by Japanese carrier raids on the West Coast in 1942. Taking advantage of this hiatus, the Japanese naturally invade Australia. Interesting in some ways, intensely annoying in several others. The single biggest fault is that, once the last of the Japanese invasion force is eventually smashed (climactic battle on the Sydney Harbour Bridge), the rest of the war proceeds EXACTLY as it did historically. Yeah, if you want to use this as a background, be prepared to do extra work first. But the basic idea is intriguing. 'The Moscow Option - An Alternative Second World War' by David Downing. Written as a proper "history". Hitler is (temporarily) incapacitated in a plane crash in 1941 (Goering is made 'acting' Fuhrer), allowing his generals several months of running the war THEIR way. They go all-out for Moscow instead of wasting men, materials and time on various subsidiary operations as Hitler wanted. Since Moscow is the central hub of the Soviet logistics network (quite aside from its importance otherwise), its fall to the Germans is a massive blow to the USSR. With the Soviets reeling, Axis forces are then temporarily diverted to the Mediterranean theatre. Lots of detail. The historical divergences seem minor at first, but very soon are anything but, and all seem quite plausible. The book ends in late 1942, the 'high-water mark' for the Axis, with intriguing mentions of what is to come (amongst other things, Nazi Germany will eventually have an Army-SS civil war; and lose the cities of Stuttgart and Nuremburg to atomic bombs). This is a particularly well-done AH, well worth reading. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lemming Posted October 21, 2008 Report Share Posted October 21, 2008 Re: What-If (WhIf) Setting Resources One site worth checking: http://www.uchronia.net/ And an interesting wiki: http://althistory.wikia.com/wiki/Main_Page Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cassandra Posted October 21, 2008 Report Share Posted October 21, 2008 Re: What-If (WhIf) Setting Resources The best Alternate History book I ever read was The Divide by William Overgard. It was published in 1980, and took place in an alternate 1976, where the Axis won World War Two and divided the U.S.. Hitler and Tojo are to meet in the geographic center of the country, and a group of American Resistance fighters plan to start a rebellion there. While hard to find it's well worth the effort. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SSgt Baloo Posted October 22, 2008 Author Report Share Posted October 22, 2008 Re: What-If (WhIf) Setting Resources Found a short story of possible interest: The Defenders of Antarctica Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eldos Posted October 24, 2008 Report Share Posted October 24, 2008 Re: What-If (WhIf) Setting Resources Well Turtledove is known as the father of Alternate History. One that I think could work very well is yet another retelling of WWII but using magic instead of technolgoy. One for the more cerebral is Days of Rice and Salt by Kim Stanley Robinson where all western civilisation is destroyed by the Black Death and the Asian, African and Indian (both India and Native American) cultures develop. This would be a particularly good one to dump players in for, "you wake up one morning . . ." Another interesting one could be the John Birmingham series where a futuristic fleet goes (yet again!) back to WWII. Similar to the film, 'The Final Countdown' but history changes when the ships stay there. Also, points to OzBeastRabbin (who's name comes from Dune)! In the last clip, he uses footage from several films including Memphis Belle (I think), Band of Brothers, War of the Worlds, Independance Day, as well as stock footage of WWII with the music from Aliens. For reference though, the aliens that attack in those stories are actually 4' tall lizardoids, not giant death machines and their fighters used missiles not 'green energy' but full marks for what you did. It was awesome. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SSgt Baloo Posted October 24, 2008 Author Report Share Posted October 24, 2008 Re: What-If (WhIf) Setting Resources Another interesting one could be the John Birmingham series where a futuristic fleet goes (yet again!) back to WWII. Similar to the film' date=' 'The Final Countdown' but history changes when the ships stay there.[/quote'] That would be the Axis of Time series. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HawksmoorSD Posted October 27, 2008 Report Share Posted October 27, 2008 Re: What-If (WhIf) Setting Resources Okay I'll easily admit I've never read Turtledove but didn't he already write some alternate history where magic was involved instead of tech? I could swear I read a dust jacket like that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lemming Posted October 27, 2008 Report Share Posted October 27, 2008 Re: What-If (WhIf) Setting Resources Okay I'll easily admit I've never read Turtledove but didn't he already write some alternate history where magic was involved instead of tech? I could swear I read a dust jacket like that. Full series of magic instead of tech in a very transparent WWII version. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
proditor Posted October 27, 2008 Report Share Posted October 27, 2008 Re: What-If (WhIf) Setting Resources The Temeraire series by Naomi Novik is also very good IMHO. Napoleonic wars with Dragons. What's not to like? http://www.temeraire.org/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sinanju Posted October 27, 2008 Report Share Posted October 27, 2008 Re: What-If (WhIf) Setting Resources Also' date=' points to OzBeastRabbin (who's name comes from Dune)! In the last clip, he uses footage from several films including Memphis Belle (I think), Band of Brothers, War of the Worlds, Independance Day, as well as stock footage of WWII with the music from Aliens. For reference though, the aliens that attack in those stories are actually 4' tall lizardoids, not giant death machines and their fighters used missiles not 'green energy' but full marks for what you did. It was awesome.[/quote'] Yeah--my favorite scene in the whole World War series is the one wherein the humans finally start getting organized to resist the aliens. Several alien ships are parked on the ground in Europe. Their radar detects an incoming missile. They fire anti-missile missiles. The incoming missile shrugs them off--and destroys one of the spacecraft. The aliens freak out over this. A few minutes later, another inbound missile is detected. Again, it is ignores their most sophisticated anti-missile measures and destroys another spacecraft. But by now, alas, the aliens have figured out what's going on. See...the humans aren't advanced enough to build missiles. The "missiles" they're firing? Are multi-ton SHELLS packed with explosives. No propulsion system, no delicate electronic brain. Just a huge load of explosive on a ballistic arc. So the aliens calculate the ballistic trajectory and figure out where the gun ("Big Bertha", a gun so large it requires a railroad car to move and aim it) is, and blow it out of existence.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
proditor Posted October 27, 2008 Report Share Posted October 27, 2008 Re: What-If (WhIf) Setting Resources I recommend watching the part 2 of the Alternate World War II clip btw. 10 minutes of fun IMHO. And, he scored part of it with Mars. Any devote of Venture Brothers knows that this instantly makes anything 150% better. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SSgt Baloo Posted October 27, 2008 Author Report Share Posted October 27, 2008 Re: What-If (WhIf) Setting Resources Okay I'll easily admit I've never read Turtledove but didn't he already write some alternate history where magic was involved instead of tech? I could swear I read a dust jacket like that. Yes. Multiple times: The Videssos series The Darkness Series The War Between the Provinces ...and possibly some more. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HawksmoorSD Posted October 28, 2008 Report Share Posted October 28, 2008 Re: What-If (WhIf) Setting Resources I think it was the War Between the Provinces one you listed. I'll have to track it down and read it at some point. Thanks!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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