While we're changing the system, change damage

[Mr. Gridlock]

Aside from Disads (which I hate as a requirement), I'm bothered by the damage system.

 

Funny enough, I don't mind the combat system or the skill system.

 

But if you have a character who can objectively lift a main battle tank over his head and throw it, yet by the vagaries of the dice might not roll enough damage to punch his way through a common house wall is just SILLY.

 

I never got into Fuzion, but I like the idea of simply adding to your base stat so that someone who has a high bonus isn't penalized by the dice.

 

I would have a random to-hit system, i.e. combat, but for damage I'd have flat bonuses (no dice rolling at all). I know people have said that that is boring, but I'd rather be bored than annoyed when my brick rolls 1s and 2s.

 

Yes, yes, the random damage rolling is supposed to represent how well you hit, but it's a bad mechanic. These kinds of things just do not happen in fiction. Once you pass a certain threshold of STR, say, certain barriers should no longer present an obstacle.

 

Yes, yes, the odds are that if you have enough dice to roll, you'll average out at 1 Body per die, but what I'm saying is that there's no reason to lose Body because of 1's rolled.

 

If you want to have an optional system (say Hit Location) that will influence the damage to a person by how well or where you hit them, then that's one thing.

 

But your basic damage system should neveral penalize someone who has paid the points to be powerful. If anything, make the combat system matter more in determining damage. How well you hit relates to how much damage you do.

 

They're decoupled. You can hit by 1 or by 10 and how much damage you roll is independent. You might hit by a margin of 0 and roll many 6's, which is a little wonky for me. You might hit by more than 10 and roll many 1's and that's just unsatisfying.

 

Blast away.

[Guest steamteck]

Re: While we're changing the system, change damage

 

This has come up before. Steve mentions average damage in "ways to speed up combat" in 5th edition page page 253. You just do 3 points stun per D6. Another option was to add 10% to damage per pip rolled under. This is the system our group has used for years. Some people counter that it seems to make DEX and combat levels too effective.

[Mr. Gridlock]

Re: While we're changing the system, change damage

 

Yes, I use the Standard Effect Rule when I GM, but when I play and the GM doesn't....

[Blackberry]

Re: While we're changing the system, change damage

 

How about this:

 

For every 1 rolled on your to-hit dice, you can set 5 points worth of your effect dice to the best possible result.

 

Thus, for one 1 rolled and standard damage, set one die to a 6 and roll the rest. For three 1s, set three dice to 6.

 

An effect that gets one die per 10 effect points could set a half die to 3 with one 1 on the to hit roll (and roll the other half due if left over) or set a full die to 6 with two 1s. An effect with 15 points per die sets a half die on two 1s, a full die on three 1s.

[Beast]

Re: While we're changing the system, change damage

 

not bad for a just a straight eb or str attack

 

I would go this way

for a 5pt per die power 1 die may be set at a 6

for a 10 pt per die power 1 die may be set 2 pips above the roll

for anything above 15 pts per die the character may set 1 die 1 pip higher

 

rolling a 3 has a devestating advantage on a killing attack where it is just a bit of a boost to a normal attack

 

especially in games that have 45 active or greater point powers

 

 

How about this:

 

For every 1 rolled on your to-hit dice, you can set 5 points worth of your effect dice to the best possible result.

 

Thus, for one 1 rolled and standard damage, set one die to a 6 and roll the rest. For three 1s, set three dice to 6.

 

An effect that gets one die per 10 effect points could set a half die to 3 with one 1 on the to hit roll (and roll the other half due if left over) or set a full die to 6 with two 1s. An effect with 15 points per die sets a half die on two 1s, a full die on three 1s.

[Legendsmiths]

Re: While we're changing the system, change damage

 

I think it is really more of an issue with non-living targets. I just enforce standard effect for non-living targets and it is solved. It also keeps battle-axe wielding fantasy nut-jobs cutting down big trees in a single stroke just because they roll well.

[pinecone]

Re: While we're changing the system, change damage

 

I think it is really more of an issue with non-living targets. I just enforce standard effect for non-living targets and it is solved. It also keeps battle-axe wielding fantasy nut-jobs cutting down big trees in a single stroke just because they roll well.

 

Yeah, I never bother with dice vs inanimate objects....I've even played with all rolls (umm...Damage rolls) being averaged, once you start throwing around 15+ the result is not going to vary much from average anyway.

 

As for "good roll equals good result" ...use the crit rules. But it makes the Dex lords even More overpowered, so expect more inflation. As for skill masters, dang, +10 with swords is only 30 pts....

[Greywind]

Re: While we're changing the system, change damage

 

Oh, but when you roll way above the average on those damage dice, you get a warm fuzzy feeling...

[Lucius]

Re: While we're changing the system, change damage

 

Yes' date=' I use the Standard Effect Rule when I GM, but when I play and the GM doesn't....[/quote']

 

As I understand it, you can apply Standard Effect to your own powers as a -0 Limitation.

 

Lucius Alexander

 

The palindromedary wonders why you'd want to

[Sean Waters]

Re: While we're changing the system, change damage

 

Why not apply the standard effect rule to Body but roll for stun damage? That makes sense: you are applying the same amount of force each time, but things that take stun have places they are more likely to feel it than others: a hit to the chin or the shoulder will both hit as hard, but the character will feel less pain from the shoulder hit, and be less likely to be stunned. In effect, you determine where you hit from damage result.

 

Also can I just mention that my recent suggestion on these boards about re-doing killing attacks would suit you very nicely: damage is seperated into penetration and damage, and Body results are very predictable.

[Hugh Neilson]

Re: While we're changing the system, change damage

 

I'd also like to change "standard damage" to granting an average roll - 3.5 per d6 - or make the current 3 per die a -1/4 limitation. Volatility is actually advantageous against targets with decent defenses, so standard damage should not weaken your average attack.

[Sean Waters]

Re: While we're changing the system, change damage

 

I'd also like to change "standard damage" to granting an average roll - 3.5 per d6 - or make the current 3 per die a -1/4 limitation. Volatility is actually advantageous against targets with decent defenses' date=' so standard damage should not weaken your average attack.[/quote']

 

 

Seconded: for stun damage through normal or resistant defences I'd say a -1/4 limitation is easily justified. It is far less of a limitation on a NND though.

[Hugh Neilson]

Re: While we're changing the system, change damage

 

Seconded: for stun damage through normal or resistant defences I'd say a -1/4 limitation is easily justified. It is far less of a limitation on a NND though.

 

It's about a 15% reduction in average damage, and elimination of above average damage that might STUN a credible opponent. -1/4 (ie a 20% cost reduction) may still be in the ballpark.

[prestidigitator]

Re: While we're changing the system, change damage

 

You could always do something in between. Say, set the default to 2d6 plus the rest Standard Effect, or roll half the dice and set the other half to Standard Effect. I'd make it campaign-wide and allow specific powers/attacks to explicitly specify different amounts at time-of-purchase though.

[Sean Waters]

Re: While we're changing the system, change damage

 

You could always do something in between. Say' date=' set the default to 2d6 plus the rest Standard Effect, or roll half the dice and set the other half to Standard Effect. I'd make it campaign-wide and allow specific powers/attacks to explicitly specify different amounts at time-of-purchase though.[/quote']

 

Here's an idea:

 

Standard effect is average damage, so 3.5 per die EXCEPT for 3 of the dice: add your to hit roll to make up the difference.

 

You will tend to get a SLIGHTY lower than average result, because rolls to hit tend toward the lower end: 3 will hit when 18 won't. Still, seems about right. A predictable result, but with some variation and a nice quick mechanic.

[Utech]

Re: While we're changing the system, change damage

 

I would be interested in having defenses work the same way attacks do. That is to say, you would have to buy dice of defense.

 

After a successful to-hit roll, the attacker would roll his dice of attack and the defender would roll his dice of defense. Both would have the option of using the Standard Effect rules, but neither would be required to do so.

[prestidigitator]

Re: While we're changing the system, change damage

 

Here's an idea:

 

Standard effect is average damage, so 3.5 per die EXCEPT for 3 of the dice: add your to hit roll to make up the difference.

 

You will tend to get a SLIGHTY lower than average result, because rolls to hit tend toward the lower end: 3 will hit when 18 won't. Still, seems about right. A predictable result, but with some variation and a nice quick mechanic.

 

Yeah. Nice. And since in many games I've switched to a roll-high mechanic myself, it works out even better for me personally. Though I'm not one who has a big problem with variable damage rolls most of the time, so I'm not sure I'll actually be using it.

[IndianaJoe3]

Re: While we're changing the system, change damage

 

I would be interested in having defenses work the same way attacks do. That is to say, you would have to buy dice of defense.

 

After a successful to-hit roll, the attacker would roll his dice of attack and the defender would roll his dice of defense. Both would have the option of using the Standard Effect rules, but neither would be required to do so.

 

It's an interesting idea. (I believe the d6 Star Wars RPG used this mechanic.) However, I think the extra die rolling would slow down play. Having armor dice directly cancel damage dice would get around this, but it moves us back towards standard effect vs defenses.

[Fearghus]

Re: While we're changing the system, change damage

 

To be honest I have never had much of a problem with random damage. The only time random dice bite me in the butt is in heroic games where damage dice are kinda low. There is nothing worse than shooting someone with your pistol for something like 2 Body 4 Stun only to have the martial arts character in the group run up to the same guy, and do 3 Body 20 Stun with a Punch... Granted he paid endurance for his attack, but it little comfort when your pistol gets out shined by a fist.

[Greywind]

Re: While we're changing the system, change damage

 

If it happens often enough, that is something that becomes a bit of a reputation issue. At least among the players.

 

I had a character in a game I was running, get a hold of a shotgun. The guy had one of the highest OCVs going. Couldn't hit what he was aiming at for anything. Until he ran out of ammo and threw the shotgun...